Worrying news.....

[CarMac]

....just spotted this. I know this topic has been covered before but I've not seen this particular article mentioned.

So much for being a free country.

http://www.bjp-online.com/public/showPage.html?pag...

Very worrying!

[nick_bbb]

Jaqui Smith is an incompenant arse.

[havoc]

Another great example of Government double-speak and the dissolution of absolute responsibility.

Also, unfortunately, another nail in the coffin of personal freedoms in this country. Without the House of Lords we'd be a card-carrying (literally) dictatorship by now...

Is this st happening elsewhere in the Western World also, or are we the only ones lumbered by such control-freaks?!?

[poah]

Roll on Scottish independance lol

[4hero]

group buy on tickets out of the UK anyone?

[CVP]

The UK is going nuts at the moment.

Over here stateside I have been at a number of large public type events since I got here and the police here just come over and chat to me. It normally goes something like:
[Policeman] Who do you shoot for?
[CVP] I'm not linked to the press I do this for fun
[Policeman] OK, Just make sure to stay behind the tapes
[CVP] Will do, thanks
[Policeman] What do you think of the [insert brand of camera model here] my son/daughter is about to get one, they got a really good price on the net
[CVP] Oh they're pretty good, have they considered the [insert alternative brand + model here] that's good too. They should go and try a few and see what they like the feel of(never offend the cops)
[Poilceman] Thanks, have a good day, Policeman then ambles off to get another donut

It all works just fine, they establish I'm not a nutter and I get to take my pics as I want, just shows sensible policing can exist alongside freedom for photographers.

If I put my political hat on for a moment I don't envy whoever gets next go in government in the UK as they will have inherited a complete and utter mess. The present lot just tinker with the edges rather than focussing on the core issues of running the country. If they were working on fixing the core issues they wouldn't have time to think up these daft potential restrictions like the Op illustrated.

My concern for the future is that the kind of folks we do need to be interested in politics simply are not. I hate to say it I have not come across a politician yet that has got the balls to stand up and say "you know what things are not great, there are some tough choices to be made for the long term benefit of the country and we are prepared to make those choices and carry it through" All parties seem to be playing just the short term "what appeals now" and it sucks.

Maybe I should go into politics when I return but of course I'd not get anywhere as am not pretty enough for the media

Chris

[Simpo Two]

CVP said:

'there are some tough choices to be made for the long term benefit of the country and we are prepared to make those choices and carry it through'

That's what Gordon Brown's been saying for years!

[CVP]

Simpo Two said:

CVP said:

'there are some tough choices to be made for the long term benefit of the country and we are prepared to make those choices and carry it through'

That's what Gordon Brown's been saying for years!

Correct, but he's done shag all about it hasn't he.

[Simpo Two]

CVP said:

Correct, but he's done shag all about it hasn't he.

Well if 'tough choices' means 'put taxes up' he's been a busy bunny indeed, but hey, back to photos...

[CVP]

Simpo Two said:

but hey, back to photos...

absolutely

[havoc]

CVP said:

My concern for the future is that the kind of folks we do need to be interested in politics simply are not. I hate to say it I have not come across a politician yet that has got the balls to stand up and say "you know what things are not great, there are some tough choices to be made for the long term benefit of the country and we are prepared to make those choices and carry it through" All parties seem to be playing just the short term "what appeals now" and it sucks.

Very true. But the average populace is such that anyone who TRIED to deliver a tough message would either not get in or would get quickly voted out - people are selfish and short-sighted in this country now, and as a result we're getting the economy and legislation we deserve.

Moreover, politics has become
(a) very expensive and organised, such that you need to be within a party (small cog, big machine) or independently wealthy;
(b) very media-targeted...ANY skeletons in your closet would be quickly exposed, and most people wouldn't want that attention. Plus if you ARE independently wealthy then you can bet the media will latch onto that and hang you with it;
(c) very combative. How many politicians would you actually trust?

So the moralistic and the principled largely steer clear because they don't want the grief and haven't got the gutter-fighting skills and duplicity to actually make it in party-politics.

[agent006]

CarMac said:

Very worrying!

Is it?

I read it as saying ther's no law preventing photography but the Police can (under the discretion of the CC, not PCs) put measures in place for specific reasons. So for example Gloucestershire Police can be jumpy around GCHQ on orders from the chief, but some PC in London can't take it upon himself to hassle a photographer in the street.

[Mr_annie_vxr]

agent006 said:

CarMac said:

Very worrying!

Is it?

I read it as saying ther's no law preventing photography but the Police can (under the discretion of the CC, not PCs) put measures in place for specific reasons. So for example Gloucestershire Police can be jumpy around GCHQ on orders from the chief, but some PC in London can't take it upon himself to hassle a photographer in the street.

I read it as not saying much at all really..

I still won't be speaking to anyone unless its to ask advice etc .

[_dobbo_]

I read it as saying forces can determine themselves what should and shouldn't be allowed, rather than the current situation where there are basically no laws restricting photography.

It's effectively giving the Police the power to act outside of the law, and it stinks. Forgetting the fact that there is NO fkING LAW AGAINST PHOTOGRAPHY... The more you remove a Police officer's requirement to exercise common sense, the less likely they will be able to do so in other situations.

[Blue Meanie]

While Jacqui Smith reaffirmed that there are no legal restrictions, she added that local Chief Constables were allowed to restrict or monitor photography in certain circumstances.

So that would mean it is not illegal to photograph in public. What right to the BIB have to stop you? Under what law?

[Mr_annie_vxr]

_dobbo_ said:

I read it as saying forces can determine themselves what should and shouldn't be allowed, rather than the current situation where there are basically no laws restricting photography.

It's effectively giving the Police the power to act outside of the law, and it stinks. Forgetting the fact that there is NO fkING LAW AGAINST PHOTOGRAPHY... The more you remove a Police officer's requirement to exercise common sense, the less likely they will be able to do so in other situations.

As i said it says nothing, it creates no laws or gives any powers. Unless I have a power to do something then all I can do is ask.

I still find it hard to believe this is such a big issue on here, apart from 4hero who else as actually been challenged?

[Famous Graham]

CVP said:

The UK is going nuts at the moment.

Over here stateside I have been at a number of large public type events since I got here and the police here just come over and chat to me. It normally goes something like:
[Policeman] Who do you shoot for?
[CVP] I'm not linked to the press I do this for fun
[Policeman] OK, Just make sure to stay behind the tapes
[CVP] Will do, thanks
[Policeman] What do you think of the [insert brand of camera model here] my son/daughter is about to get one, they got a really good price on the net
[CVP] Oh they're pretty good, have they considered the [insert alternative brand + model here] that's good too. They should go and try a few and see what they like the feel of(never offend the cops)
[Poilceman] Thanks, have a good day, Policeman then ambles off to get another donut

It all works just fine, they establish I'm not a nutter and I get to take my pics as I want, just shows sensible policing can exist alongside freedom for photographers.

Refreshing, isn't it. I've only had one negative experience with the cops here but that was somewhat justified as I called him a "fking idiot" for shining a torch in my eyes while I was crossing the road (upstreet of a crosswalk). I didn't actually know it was a cop at the time cos I was blinded

[CVP]

[quote=havoc
So the moralistic and the principled largely steer clear because they don't want the grief and haven't got the gutter-fighting skills and duplicity to actually make it in party-politics.
[/quote]

Agreed completely.

Also in answer to Mr Arnie. In the UK I've only ever had good interactions with actual PCs on the beat.

My only grief came with some private security guards near the London Eye. Complete Neandethals. I didn't bother arguing the toss as it was blatently clear they would not discuss the matter. I did some research and found out what their grunting actually meant and so when I returned I went to a different site where they had no powers.

Next time I went there with a friend and his AM V8 different security guards who could not have been more understanding.

You do hear of photogrpahers being hassled through other photo forums and a lot seems to be from private security guards. I firmly believe a lot of this could be avoided by appropriate training of these individuals in the first place.

Chris

[Mr_annie_vxr]

I just do not think its a big problem with the police. I can see that security / council wardens maybe but most police officers would know their powers and would not be that interested unless they had specific intelligence about the location / individual.

Only know of one chap and it was late at night at a weapons research place.

[_dobbo_]

Mr_annie_vxr said:

As I said it says nothing, it creates no laws or gives any powers. Unless I have a power to do something then all I can do is ask.

I still find it hard to believe this is such a big issue on here, apart from 4hero who else as actually been challenged?

It's good that you read it that way, and re-assuring.

I would ask though, if it says nothing, why is it being said at all? It's the precursor to something else if the past actions of this government are anything to go on. It's an over used phrase round these parts, but thin end of the wedge about covers it.

This is a big issue on here because it represents part of a larger issue, the erosion of our rights in the name of protecting against some faceless terrorist threat.

Terrorism is no more a danger now than when the IRA were active, yet our government would have us believe a bloke called Alan Quaieda is waiting just outside your door with a camera, a knife, a dirty bomb and some anthrax.