Newbie with £1500 to spend
Discussion
OMG, my head is splitting ! 
I had a Pentax film SLR many years ago but unfortunately didn't have the cash or time to expand on the hobby. Since then I've had several pocket-sized compacts, the last one being the Ricoh R1.
Being illiterate to all things photographic, a few months ago I decided I needed a change. I decided I didn't want to go the whole hog and buy a DSLR, so I bought one of those "bridge" thingys, a Panasonic Lumix FZ18......
And it is absolute cack ! Even my 4mp Ricoh took better pics. Oh well. you live and learn.
So now I want to get back into this without getting my pants pulled down....again.
I've been through so many threads on here and there is a distinct Canon vs Nikon feel about the place, so I've narrowed my choices down to these two camps. I would like something that is going to be good at all types of photography and that I won't be wanting to change for a while.
As an example, I looked at the Nikon D40, thought that might be good because I could buy a couple of decent lenses, but then thought I would be wanting to upgrade the body sooner rather than later.
Now I've went from thinking about the D80 to the D300 and the 450D to the 40D.
Honestly, I could not be more confused. I don't want a body that leaves me wanting more but neither do I want one that is too difficult to enjoy.
Can anyone give me an idea of body/lens configs that would be good for a novice with 1.5K to spend ? I think I will be doing general photography to begin with, maybe some portrait, landscape, a touch of macro....
Thanks in advance
I had a Pentax film SLR many years ago but unfortunately didn't have the cash or time to expand on the hobby. Since then I've had several pocket-sized compacts, the last one being the Ricoh R1.
Being illiterate to all things photographic, a few months ago I decided I needed a change. I decided I didn't want to go the whole hog and buy a DSLR, so I bought one of those "bridge" thingys, a Panasonic Lumix FZ18......
And it is absolute cack ! Even my 4mp Ricoh took better pics. Oh well. you live and learn.
So now I want to get back into this without getting my pants pulled down....again.
I've been through so many threads on here and there is a distinct Canon vs Nikon feel about the place, so I've narrowed my choices down to these two camps. I would like something that is going to be good at all types of photography and that I won't be wanting to change for a while.
As an example, I looked at the Nikon D40, thought that might be good because I could buy a couple of decent lenses, but then thought I would be wanting to upgrade the body sooner rather than later.
Now I've went from thinking about the D80 to the D300 and the 450D to the 40D.
Honestly, I could not be more confused. I don't want a body that leaves me wanting more but neither do I want one that is too difficult to enjoy.
Can anyone give me an idea of body/lens configs that would be good for a novice with 1.5K to spend ? I think I will be doing general photography to begin with, maybe some portrait, landscape, a touch of macro....
Thanks in advance
The 40D is SO cheap right now I'd go:
40D
Sigma 18-50mm F2.8
Sigma 70-200mm F2.8
Canon 50mm F1.8
(then flash, extension tubes, cards etc. etc!)
Might be slightly over, even getting lenses from HK, but would be a fantastic starting point!
I'd Ignore the D40, D60 and 450D unless you specifically want something small / are on a tight budget. Nikon camp (which I come from) would ignore the D80 (unless you get really cheap) and wait for the D90, which in simple terms is a slightly slower plastic bodied D300. Full D300 would leave you without enough funds for lenses IMO, which should be the priority. The Nikon 18-200mm VR might be tempting if you just want it for walkabout stuff, but for the most creative freedom I'd go for something like the setup above. Quality won't be lacking either!
40D
Sigma 18-50mm F2.8
Sigma 70-200mm F2.8
Canon 50mm F1.8
(then flash, extension tubes, cards etc. etc!)
Might be slightly over, even getting lenses from HK, but would be a fantastic starting point!
I'd Ignore the D40, D60 and 450D unless you specifically want something small / are on a tight budget. Nikon camp (which I come from) would ignore the D80 (unless you get really cheap) and wait for the D90, which in simple terms is a slightly slower plastic bodied D300. Full D300 would leave you without enough funds for lenses IMO, which should be the priority. The Nikon 18-200mm VR might be tempting if you just want it for walkabout stuff, but for the most creative freedom I'd go for something like the setup above. Quality won't be lacking either!
There's a slight contradiction in your requirements :-
"I don't want a body that leaves me wanting more but neither do I want one that is too difficult to enjoy."
A body that doesn't leave you wanting more is, by definition, going to be a bit more involved to learn and get the best from.
Notwithstanding that, VxDuncan has given some good advice, though a replacement for the 40D is about to hit the shelves (the 50D), so the 40D may drop in price even more.
Not sure what the Nikon equivalent is for either of those, as I am a Canon man, but if you choose the 40D (or it's replacement) or the Nikon equivalent, you will be buying a solid foundation on which you will be able to build.
"I don't want a body that leaves me wanting more but neither do I want one that is too difficult to enjoy."
A body that doesn't leave you wanting more is, by definition, going to be a bit more involved to learn and get the best from.
Notwithstanding that, VxDuncan has given some good advice, though a replacement for the 40D is about to hit the shelves (the 50D), so the 40D may drop in price even more.
Not sure what the Nikon equivalent is for either of those, as I am a Canon man, but if you choose the 40D (or it's replacement) or the Nikon equivalent, you will be buying a solid foundation on which you will be able to build.
What I meant (and didn't convey very well !), was that I didn't want one that baffled me with its complexity to the point where I felt I was in over my head, although I know and am prepared to go through some form of learning curve.
Thanks for your advice guys, that's definitely food for thought, unless someone else replies and confuses me all over again....
Thanks for your advice guys, that's definitely food for thought, unless someone else replies and confuses me all over again....
D40 - D60 - D80 - D90 - D300 - D700 - D3 - where do you draw the line?
My cousin wanted to learn the piano, so wishing to 'futureproof' himself, he bought a Steinway. Of course he proved to have little talent or continued interest in the piano and so all he did was waste loads of money.
The value of your kit will not affect your skill as a photographer, so until you've felt your way in a bit, I'd keep it sensible - say D80 (if we're talking Nikon). It may prove more capable than you, in which case you can stop there. If after time and practice it transpires that you are more capable than it, then you can trade up safe in the knowledge that it's the kit that's the limiting factor and not you. And that's before we've talked about lenses or software
My cousin wanted to learn the piano, so wishing to 'futureproof' himself, he bought a Steinway. Of course he proved to have little talent or continued interest in the piano and so all he did was waste loads of money.
The value of your kit will not affect your skill as a photographer, so until you've felt your way in a bit, I'd keep it sensible - say D80 (if we're talking Nikon). It may prove more capable than you, in which case you can stop there. If after time and practice it transpires that you are more capable than it, then you can trade up safe in the knowledge that it's the kit that's the limiting factor and not you. And that's before we've talked about lenses or software
LMC said:
What I meant (and didn't convey very well !), was that I didn't want one that baffled me with its complexity to the point where I felt I was in over my head, although I know and am prepared to go through some form of learning curve.
Thanks for your advice guys, that's definitely food for thought, unless someone else replies and confuses me all over again....
If I can use a Canon 40D, anyone can! It's a great piece of kit for the money. You could easily stick it on the auto settings to see why you shouldn't use them, then work away at manual as you please Thanks for your advice guys, that's definitely food for thought, unless someone else replies and confuses me all over again....
It might be worth identifying what you don't like about your existing camera - it should be capable of producing decent photos in most situations.
The controls on a DSLR will vary depending on the target market for the camera. The entry-level cameras will have pre-programmed 'scene' modes (portrait, landscape, night-time etc.), but the more advanced cameras won't. It is worth noting that the D300 doesn't even have a full 'auto' mode, rather just program, aperture and shutter priority exposure modes. That may be a problem or it may be an advantage, depending on how much you know or want to learn.
If you're expecting a semi-pro DSLR to produce fantastic-looking results on auto mode straight out of the camera, you may be disappointed - it's just not what they are generally optimised for. If you just want nice-looking jpegs, the cheaper entry-level cameras will be tuned to produce brighter, sharper pictures out of the camera than the more semi-pro models (because slightly darker, less sharpened pictures leave more scope for processing the pictures later on a computer).
You'll also find that there is quite a significant difference in size and weight between for example, a D40 and a D300 - if you're planning to use camera socially, or carry it around with you a lot of the time, you may feel more comfortable carrying a smaller camera. On the other hand, a D300 is built like a tank and much more effectively weather-sealed than a D40.
I'd always suggest going to a camera shop and handling the cameras if possible - you'll find that they feel quite different in your hands and the Canon and Nikon bodies have quite different button layouts and controls.
The controls on a DSLR will vary depending on the target market for the camera. The entry-level cameras will have pre-programmed 'scene' modes (portrait, landscape, night-time etc.), but the more advanced cameras won't. It is worth noting that the D300 doesn't even have a full 'auto' mode, rather just program, aperture and shutter priority exposure modes. That may be a problem or it may be an advantage, depending on how much you know or want to learn.
If you're expecting a semi-pro DSLR to produce fantastic-looking results on auto mode straight out of the camera, you may be disappointed - it's just not what they are generally optimised for. If you just want nice-looking jpegs, the cheaper entry-level cameras will be tuned to produce brighter, sharper pictures out of the camera than the more semi-pro models (because slightly darker, less sharpened pictures leave more scope for processing the pictures later on a computer).
You'll also find that there is quite a significant difference in size and weight between for example, a D40 and a D300 - if you're planning to use camera socially, or carry it around with you a lot of the time, you may feel more comfortable carrying a smaller camera. On the other hand, a D300 is built like a tank and much more effectively weather-sealed than a D40.
I'd always suggest going to a camera shop and handling the cameras if possible - you'll find that they feel quite different in your hands and the Canon and Nikon bodies have quite different button layouts and controls.
Edited by rustyspit on Monday 1st September 07:47
Some good advice here!
Regarding Canon/Nikon - the usual recommendation is that you determine the two bodies you are interested in, then go to a shop and see how they both feel in your hand - whichever is most comfortable and suits your hands is the one you should buy.
Lens wise, any third party lenses are available on both platforms, while Nikon and Canon both make superb lenses so not much to choose between them in that regard.
Only word of warning is that if you are looking for an "auto" mode that rules the D300 out, since I'm pretty sure like the D200 it doesn't have one.
Regarding Canon/Nikon - the usual recommendation is that you determine the two bodies you are interested in, then go to a shop and see how they both feel in your hand - whichever is most comfortable and suits your hands is the one you should buy.
Lens wise, any third party lenses are available on both platforms, while Nikon and Canon both make superb lenses so not much to choose between them in that regard.
Only word of warning is that if you are looking for an "auto" mode that rules the D300 out, since I'm pretty sure like the D200 it doesn't have one.
Get another Ricoh and pocket the change... the GX-200's a lovely camera, and I've seen photos blown up over 1m wide and they still look amazing...
http://www.ricoh.com/r_dc/gx/gx200/
http://www.ricoh.com/r_dc/gx/gx200/
rustyspit said:
It might be worth identifying what you don't like about your existing camera - it should be capable of producing decent photos in most situations.
Now that is an intriguing question, and the honest answer is that I suppose I am less than happy with the results so far. Now obviously that opens up a whole new can of worms, including questions regarding my own ability.What I would like to do (if I'm allowed), is to pop a couple of random photos on here, but I'm unsure if that would work as they all look better when reduced in size.....
I'll get some on my webspace in the hope that one or two of you can take a minute and run your eyes over them.
Thanks for the advice so far
This is interesting to me. I really delayed moving to DSLR's from film because I couldn't justify the big initial outlay, and I loved (still do) the feel of mechanical film SLR's. I'm a Nikon user, so progressed from a really basic EM, still got it in a drawer somewhere, to F3's, most recently an F3p in mint condition. When I did finally make the jump to digital, I decided to follow the same path as my film cameras. I knew I'd be upgrading, more likely quicker than my film stuff because the rate of improvement is so much quicker with digital. Once I'd assumed I'd be upgrading no matter what, I thought I'd start with a D40 and get to grips of using an auto camera, my limit previously had been aperture priority. I'm loving the D40, and quite often enjoy working within it's limitations, which actually on a day-to-day basis are very few. I was the same with film cameras, often leaving big SLR's at home and just use an Olympus XA (currently sat in my glovebox!). I know I'll upgrade, but I'll happily keep my basic, little D40 to sit alongside whatever replaces it, be it a D300, D700, D3 etc.
What I realised is that trying to ascertain what 'level' I should jump in, was making me think I should future-proof by getting a higher spec model than I needed. I came to a point where I figured with digital, I'll always be looking for the next model, no matter what I bought, and since I couldn't afford a new D3, it'd probably be better to start off at the bottom.
What I realised is that trying to ascertain what 'level' I should jump in, was making me think I should future-proof by getting a higher spec model than I needed. I came to a point where I figured with digital, I'll always be looking for the next model, no matter what I bought, and since I couldn't afford a new D3, it'd probably be better to start off at the bottom.
NiceCupOfTea said:
I think it's worth pointing out that, unless I'm mistaken, although the D200 (and presumably D300) don't have full auto modes, using the P mode will "suggest" settings and if you don't change them then it's equivalent to auto.
That seems to be the way that "P" works on my D70s.
True, although 'P' mode gives you slightly more rope to hang yourself with than 'Auto'. I _think_ 'Auto' fixes the autofocus and metering modes and (maybe?) doesn't allow you to dial in any exposure compensation, whereas 'P' requires you to check those things. I don't know whether 'Auto' also tries to do anything different or clever when it chooses the aperture/shutter speed or not?That seems to be the way that "P" works on my D70s.
ETA: I think it's just an indication of the 'style' of the Dx00 cameras - they aren't difficult to use, but they are complicated and someone who would choose to use 'Auto' mode most of the time would probably be a bit overwhelmed by them IMO.
Edited by rustyspit on Tuesday 2nd September 08:53
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