Becoming a Professional Photographer

[littlemidgetgem]

I'm very seriously considering doing a degree in Commercial Photography and just wonering to all you professional photographers out there -

did you do a degree in Photography?

if you could live your life over again, would you have still become a Photographer?

Any insight into the industry would be great (I'd be hopefully looking to specialise in advertisement photography or editorial, magazine stuff)

[4hero]

I suppose it's a bit like art, if you can't draw for st a degree will not help.

I've no pieces of paper to say I can build websites, yet am currently one of the highest paid in my field in Edinburgh (and have beat many a graduate to get jobs).

If you are passionate about your job, the passion and end result is what counts

Edited by 4hero on Thursday 6th November 22:20

[Davel]

My daughter finished her photography degree this year.

She studied at Staffs Uni and really enjoyed it.

She's setting up on her own now.

Edited by Davel on Friday 7th November 10:10

[Stigmundfreud]

as hero said you can study all you want but without an eye for a shot you'll never do it. Good for giving it a go, I'd love to do a degree but purely as a self serving exercise. See the letters thread

[littlemidgetgem]

Thanks for the imput, I am presuming here that a degree will help me with both technical (I can take good pictures though don't know much about Photoshop / technical parts of the camera) and the business side (finding clients etc.)

Is there a better way to learn about the technical stuff? I have a lot of great ideas and a rather creative mind too, which I believe is the main put the actual taking pictures! Just know almost nothing about the technical and business side.

4hero - I liked you perspective as it is refreshing from the "get a degree - you'll need one" side.

[littlemidgetgem]

Stigmundfreud said:

as hero said you can study all you want but without an eye for a shot you'll never do it. Good for giving it a go, I'd love to do a degree but purely as a self serving exercise. See the letters thread

I've just read that!

Totally understand where you are coming from I find that I'm good at seeing the shot and the art based side to it but find the camera a little bewildering, I've not had any technical training and know that this plays a part, is there another way to learn about this side, not trial and error, I want to be taught the technical side and photoshop!

Hope you understand what I mean by this!!

[Stigmundfreud]

for the technical stuff there is nowt better than just getting stuck in. OK it helps to get a bit of guidance and its so easy to forget what you learn. Colins encyclopedia or book whatever it is on photography has good step through guides/refreshers to technical stuff

Find a local good tog willing to help you, everyones happy to help. If you are asking questions about photoshop and the technical stuff you aint ready for a degree (have to be blunt). GEt on a btec 1 year foundation course in photography and arts

it will cover everything you need in a practical manner to prepare yourself for a degree (lots of writing to do too)

[littlemidgetgem]

Stigmundfreud said:

for the technical stuff there is nowt better than just getting stuck in. OK it helps to get a bit of guidance and its so easy to forget what you learn. Colins encyclopedia or book whatever it is on photography has good step through guides/refreshers to technical stuff

Find a local good tog willing to help you, everyones happy to help. If you are asking questions about photoshop and the technical stuff you aint ready for a degree (have to be blunt). GEt on a btec 1 year foundation course in photography and arts

it will cover everything you need in a practical manner to prepare yourself for a degree (lots of writing to do too)

Thanks for your advice Will buy and encyclopedia and find someone local who knows their stuff and willing to help!!

I don't think we have a BTEC Foundation in Photography and Arts, around here but you can do a BTEC National Diploma in Photography, will definetely look into it!

[Stigmundfreud]

most ND course do offer a foundation too. IF you are serious about it, create a portfolio of your work, one demonstrating what you think is your best and another showing your progress. Its not just about quality its about potential what they look for.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Collins-Complete-Photograp... excellent book with picture guides and it ramps up from the obvious to the technical

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Photography-Susan-Sontag/d... Susan Sontang on Photography. You'll never read it or if you do you'll not understand it but its considered good form to at least have a copy you can pretend to refer to. Mines never been opened in a few years, one day though....

[Olivero]

What do you want to end up photographing?
Commercial covers a wide spectrum.
What do you enjoy photographing at the moment?
Some would argue that you either have an 'eye' or not but I do think with the right tutoring most people can get better. While the technical aspects can be taught, the business end of things is ultimately what will give you a living. You will most likely find talking to professional photographers that half went the degree route while the other half were largely self taught. I am (highly) biased but would recommend finding a tutor for one-to-one or small group lesions.
Don't get too bogged down the an equipment list, this is only a part of what makes a good photo, light however is your friend.

[tog]

littlemidgetgem said:

and the business side (finding clients etc.)

Very few degrees will teach you much about this I think. Depending on what field you want to get in to it might be worth assisting a photographer to start with - this is the way many people start. I did an HND, which is more hands-on and technical than a degree, and has less art theory and history involved, and far fewer essays! A lot of work experience at the local paper in my last year (basically free labour - after the second day shadowing one of the full-time guys they realised I could do the job, had a car and didn't need shepherding around so sent me out by myself from then on!) got me a job at the end of my course. That was ten years ago and I'm freelance now.

However, remember that for every photographer that tells you how great college was and how much they learned and what a great creative environment it is, another will tell you how they never went to college and how the only way to learn is to get out there and do it... Horses for courses really

Whatever you do, professional photography is not an easy life. Clients' budgets are falling, our costs are rising, and there is little security for freelancers. The rise of digital means people think photography is easy, and because there's no film they think we have no costs. I'm not saying you can't do it, or trying to put you off, but be aware that it is hard work with often unsocial and unpredictable hours.

[Monochrome]

I'm currently doing a degree in Photography focusing on commercial work, i looked at a lot of universities, talked to the students and finally settled on this course which is actually a BSc.
The most important thing to do is to go and talk to the students on whatever course your looking at, you should hopefully get an honest insight.

Basically alot of places seem to just want students, cram in as many as possible, which means its impossible to get one to one tuition or any studio time when you need it. Several of the Ba degrees i looked at were like this and seemed far more concerned about essays then your images, the images could be terrible, but if you could explain it, they would praise it. Their studio equipment was often st aswell.

My course only accepts a small amount of students, which means we get far more studio time then other courses, lecturers really get to know and help us individually. We are taught history and theory, but focus on producing professional standard images in the studio and on location.

If you want to become a pro fashion shooter you need vision, but you'll get nowhere without technical skills, to know and understand lighting, how to tweak it and get it to work for you. The best way to learn this is to spend a lot of time experimenting in the studio shooting, and observing others shooting. The only way to get this opportunity is to get on a course with a good studio, assist a pro, spend serious money renting a studio or tens of thousands and get your own.

Testino shot for years using only daylight and never got any work, he didn't know how to shoot with flash or tungsten then. He had to learn how to use the light, which eventually he did. He now produces images which are technically very good and is renowned for fashion work.(helps to come from a peruvian family worth millions as well).

I've blathered on far too much here, but i hope that some of it was useful.

[Famous Graham]

4hero said:

am currently one of the highest paid in my field in Edinburgh

Got anything you want to farm off?

(serious btw, am back in Edinburgh and looking at any and all revenue streams to get back into the "real world". Background's IT with a web slant)

[DucatiGary]

4hero said:

I've no pieces of paper

i dont have any qualifications at all, was kicked out of school at 14 for lots of reasons (notibly chinning the smelly geography teacher who was smaller than me at the time and threatened to punch me so of course I laid into him before he got the chance to throw a punch) and no other school would have me.

I was always into computers, always taking them apart trying to make them better which would lead to me breaking them, then putting them back together making them work better than ever.

i used to play around with music on my amiga, then got some dj decks, then started djing at the local youth club (at 15) then at the local nationally reknown techno club at 16 (the drome) i didnt have any paper saying I could do anything but at 17 I was earning more than the teachers who said to my parents id be nothing but a layabout in life.

over the years since ive been the highest turnover IT hardware account manager in the country and after that built one of the fastest growing IT distributors in europe (467% year on year growth) then went to work for a worldwide manufacturer of IT hardware looking after all operations in UK and Ireland aswell as dealing with all the worldwide PR (ironic as im dislexic and cant spell!)

moral of this story?

qualifications mean nothing.

if you want something, go get it the world is your oyster!

Edited by DucatiGary on Friday 7th November 09:22

[Stigmundfreud]

DucatiGary said:

4hero said:

I've no pieces of paper

i dont have any qualifications at all, was kicked out of school at 14 for lots of reasons (notibly chinning the smelly geography teacher who was smaller than me at the time and threatened to punch me so of course I laid into him before he got the chance to throw a punch) and no other school would have me.

I was always into computers, always taking them apart trying to make them better which would lead to me breaking them, then putting them back together making them work better than ever.

i used to play around with music on my amiga, then got some dj decks, then started djing at the local youth club (at 15) then at the local nationally reknown techno club at 16 (the drome) i didnt have any paper saying I could do anything but at 17 I was earning more than the teachers who said to my parents id be nothing but a layabout in life.

over the years since ive been the highest turnover IT hardware account manager in the country and after that built one of the fastest growing IT distributors in europe (467% year on year growth) then went to work for a worldwide manufacturer of IT hardware looking after all operations in UK and Ireland aswell as dealing with all the worldwide PR (ironic as im dislexic and cant spell!)

moral of this story?

qualifications mean nothing.

if you want something, go get it the world is your oyster!

Edited by DucatiGary on Friday 7th November 09:22

Its a shame you didn't leave at 16 or you would have realised the question wasnt "How great are you without your qualifications". I'd say you were very lucky on your part in that instance, probably right place right time (guessign time lines). Look if you want to brag about how great you did, good for you. If you want to understand the issue here is not like IT where sometimes you get lucky but mostly you need qualifications to get on the ladder. Art is very subjective and degrees even more so in photography.

[Simpo Two]

Interesting how people with qualifications generally say they're important/useful, and those without qualifications always say they're rubbish.

Alan Sugar could leave school at 14 and become a multi-millionaire selling tat, but it doesn't mean the OP can. Anyone with the gift of the gab can sell boxes of (insert product here) and make money - no education required - but I'd like to think that photography demands rather more skill - artistic and technical - than that, so yes, if you know little and are keen to learn, go and learn it .

[DucatiGary]

Stigmundfreud said:

Look if you want to brag

rofl, wasnt meant that way, just pointing out, if you feel threatened by it and want to call it bragging go for your life.

music is art, agreed anyone can play records but mixing on several sources live, whilst scratching/doing tricks etc, is nothing to do with luck, its subjective and only a few can do it propperly.

I guess all that practising just made me lucky, hey?



and thats the relevance to photography, if you enjoy it practice.

a great portfolio of good photos will stand you in much better place than a couple of letters after your name and a peice of paper saying you can do it, regardless of what anyone else would like you to think.

edit - you make your own luck

Edited by DucatiGary on Friday 7th November 10:23

[Davel]

there are many successful photgraphers out there with little or no qualifications whatsoever.

Yes I'm proud that my daughter got her degree but, as others have said, it's having the eye for the shot that counts and enough expertise to know what you're doing.

It's very nice to have the degree but it isn't a must have.

[nick_bbb]

Simpo Two said:

... but I'd like to think that photography demands rather more skill - artistic and technical - than that, so yes, if you know little and are keen to learn, go and learn it .

There are plenty of photography businesses that require very little of what you are talking about. Paparazzi is probably the best example but businesses like Venture have very little to do with the photographer. Even in your wedding game there are plenty who seem to do well with poor images but good sales skills. I'll grant you that the best are going to be people who have both, but in terms of running a business the skill - artisitic and technical will not be the most important sucess factor. I belive we saw a good example of this on the apprentice when they tried to run a photography project, it was a gimik (celeb lookalike) not the quality of the photos that brought the cash in. Another example is the HDRs which Mr Carter has posted up, will sell like hot cakes but technically not as good as the originals.

[Puff Puff]

Simpo Two said:

Interesting how people with qualifications generally say they're important/useful, and those without qualifications always say they're rubbish.

I don't have a degree in photography but for over twelve years took photographs to illustrate magazine articles I wrote. I also spent a lot of time trackside at race meetings in the UK and Germany snapping touring cars and reckon I can take a reasonable pic of a moving car.

Alongside me at many races were qualified photographers i.e. with degrees in photography, one was qualified to do everything but medical photography. They were able to get the prestige work with car manufacturers, leading race teams etc. when I couldn't - not that I particularly wanted to, I was primarily a journalist but their expertise and experience was evident in their results.

If I could turn the clock back I'd do a photographic course at college or university but I'it's a bit late for that now.

Do I wish I had formal qualifications in photography? Yes because it's a technical subject and whilst I have 'the eye', it's not always enough.