WWTPHPFD

[_dobbo_]

What Would The PH Photography Forum Do? Bear with me here guys, I need a bit of advice.

I posted a page on my blog a while ago about people stealing a photo I took of mine and the wife's wedding rings. It's been going on for years now and I've kind of just accepted it.

Anyway this weekend I was best man at a wedding, and the wedding favours were bars of chocolate at each place setting. Imagine my surprise when I noticed the photo on the bar of chocolate was mine from my website.

I mentioned it to the groom and said I could have done a photo of his rings if he'd asked, to which he replied "what are you on about?!"

Basically, he hadn't known the photo was mine - he'd chosen it from a list the chocolate company supplies to clients of available wrapper designs...

To remove any doubt - here's my website alongside the choccy bar in question:



So what should I do?

• Ignore it?
• Invoice the company something appropriate? If so how much?
• Write to the company and give them the opportunity to respond?

Thanks in advance for any thoughts/replies!


Edit to add - what are the chances anyway that I'd be best man and he'd randomly pick my photograph for his wedding favours?

Edited by _dobbo_ on Monday 27th July 10:13

[Deluded]

Watermark the image on your site and people wont bother nicking it.

[Famous Graham]

_dobbo_ said:

• Write to the company and give them the opportunity to respond?

There's every chance they've acted correctly and purchased the picture from a stock agency - they'd have no way of knowing the origin of the image in that case.

Explain the situation to them and ask where they got it. If it's an agency, that's your next stop, if it's an individual, then you go for them, all guns blazing

At least, I would.

[Simpo Two]

Problem is, once it's realeased onto the internet, it's out - you can't put the genie back in the bottle. The entire world could have copied it by now.

There was probably only one thief, the rest of the chain are just unwitting 'handlers of stolen property'.

[_dobbo_]

Thanks Simpo/Graham - useful advice.

Deluded said:

Watermark the image on your site and people wont bother nicking it.

I did watermark the image about 12 months ago - which means this copy pre-dates that so they've likely been using this for well over a year. Or otherwise they cleaned the watermark off - I couldn't prove it either way.

Watermarking the photo had absolutely no effect at all on the number of people nicking it. There are businesses who have my watermarked image embedded in their own website selling wedding rings. You couldn't make it up.

[Famous Graham]

Simpo Two said:

Problem is, once it's realeased onto the internet, it's out - you can't put the genie back in the bottle. The entire world could have copied it by now.

There was probably only one thief, the rest of the chain are just unwitting 'handlers of stolen property'.

Whilst I agree, I'd still be of a mind to find that source.

[GetCarter]

A very polite letter to the company first. Find out where they got it. Keep all correspondence in case you have to involve lawyers.

No matter where they got it, as long as you can prove it's yours, you have the right to stop them using it if you want - so they really have to be co-operative.

[jon-]

Famous Graham said:

_dobbo_ said:

• Write to the company and give them the opportunity to respond?

There's every chance they've acted correctly and purchased the picture from a stock agency - they'd have no way of knowing the origin of the image in that case.

Explain the situation to them and ask where they got it. If it's an agency, that's your next stop, if it's an individual, then you go for them, all guns blazing

At least, I would.

This is the path I'd follow.

If it's come from a microstock site that means someone is making money off your work and that isn't right.

Edited crap out as I just read "A fair bit of my website traffic comes from people searching for “wedding rings” on google images, for which I come up on page one. Around 100 or so visitors a day arrive in this fashion, and most of them continue on their way without any noticable impact."

Edited by jon- on Monday 27th July 11:11

[Simpo Two]

Famous Graham said:

Whilst I agree, I'd still be of a mind to find that source.

Agreed, and I hope you can get some kind of settlement.

[Andy M]

If you have the original RAW file/large JPEG (ie: cast iron evidence that it's your photo) I'd be instructing a specialist solicitor to look into the case.

I doubt it's the chocolate supplier who is guilty, it will be somebody further up the line - hopefully somebody who can pay over a nice cheque

[_dobbo_]

Sadly I no longer have the original, I wonder what this would do to any case I might or might not have?

I'll be contacting the supplier first and see where it goes, will let you know, thanks again chaps!

[Scho]

Man, thats crazy how many people have used your image!

Try the AOP?

Might offer advice. even though you're not a member they are very keen on protecting photographers rights.

I'd be chasing all those companies for money.

Good luck.

rick.

[AndrewW-G]

Am I the only person thinking that as the photo is out anyway, you may as well bargain payment in chocolate from the company

[Simpo Two]

This was mine, bah mutter...

[Famous Graham]

Simpo Two said:

This was mine, bah mutter...

Twotiming bh!

[wendyg]

I'm sorry, but my opinion is that if you let it get out on the web without protecting it. It will be very hard to get it back.

Did you have any statements on your website identifying copyright?

[_dobbo_]

wendyg said:

I'm sorry, but my opinion is that if you let it get out on the web without protecting it. It will be very hard to get it back.

Did you have any statements on your website identifying copyright?

It's not a case of getting the image back, it's that they've been using my image without permission on items they are selling, which is illegal. I don't want it back, I want payment. I suspect I'll have little luck but I don't think that means I shouldn't try.

I don't need a statement identifying copyright, copyright remains entirely with the photographer unless I explicitly state otherwise. Thinking that an image on the web isn't protected is precisely why people think they can get away with stealing copyrighted material in this way.

As far as proving it's my photo - I have the two rings and can replicate the exact photo again on demand. It's been on my website since Sept 2007. If whoever it was that originally supplied the image can prove they got it from somewhere else then I lose, but the fact remains they can't prove that, because they stole it from me.

[Simpo Two]

I agree with all you say, but -

_dobbo_ said:

As far as proving it's my photo - I have the two rings and can replicate the exact photo again on demand. It's been on my website since Sept 2007.

- I doubt that would stand up in a court of law as proof the original image was yours. Can you prove it was on your website since Sept 2007? And if it was, how do we know you didn't take it from somewhere else? My view (I'm not a copyright solicitor but have had recent dealings with some) is that without the originals, you can't prove a thing and the case would be dropped.

_dobbo_ said:

If whoever it was that originally supplied the image can prove they got it from somewhere else then I lose, but the fact remains they can't prove that, because they stole it from me.

They can't prove that they did, but you can't prove that they didn't. You know you're right, but you have to convince the judge. Frustrating as it is, I think you'll have to let this one go and be wiser next time. You might get a few £ by sabre-rattling, but if they tell you to bog off you'd be wasting your time going to court. Only fight battles you can win.

Edited by Simpo Two on Tuesday 28th July 10:32

[_dobbo_]

I fear you may be right Simpo. I took the photo at work and processed it there, and as a result lost the original when I re-installed the work PC.

Still going to have a crack anyway, but with low expectations of a result.

[GetCarter]

Damn

Somewhere on the net there is a site which will show you 'cached versions' of your site going way back. I've seen mine going back more than 10 years... but I can't find the site now. If it comes to it, posting a question re this in the computer forum may well yield results.