Advancing to off camera flash

[Louisa911]

I have an old Canon 300D camera, and am wanting to start experimenting with an off camera flash. What will I need? I've been doing some investigation online and on ebay, I'm guessing I will need a flashgun compatible with canon cameras (around £20 to £30 on ebay cheapest) and a hot shoe lead to connect it with? (around £14?) Is this everything? Sorry for the lack of knowledge!

Many thanks.
Louisa

[andy-xr]

Kinda depends...

If you want the camera to have some input into what light is going where, and how much of it, then yes - you need a Canon or Canon speak trigger and flash. If you dont care, and want to put light where you want it, then any trigger and any flash is all you'd need. The Strobist 101 is worth a look, just be handy on the pause button as they dont half talk quick

[Louisa911]

So if I purchased this:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Canon-off-camera-shoe-cord-2...

and

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Flashgun-Speedlite-For-Nikon...

I would have all the bits needed to be able to direct the flash where I want, off the camera?

Cheers

edit to add: I know the flashgun states its for Nikon in the title but it states Canon within the listing.

Edited by Louisa911 on Thursday 28th January 15:31

[andy-xr]

Probably someone who knows their Canon should step in now, my knowledge of them would say get this instead

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Canon-Speedlight-430EX-II_W0...

I have the Nikon SC29 cord, and it's a bit limiting to be honest. Most of the (few) times (I use them) I'll use pocket wizards and put them through an EZ Fold softbox

Edited by andy-xr on Thursday 28th January 16:45

[Louisa911]

andy-xr said:

Probably someone who knows their Canon should step in now, my knowledge of them would say get this instead

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Canon-Speedlight-430EX-II_W0...

I have the Nikon SC29 cord, and it's a bit limiting to be honest. Most of the (few) times (I use them) I'll use pocket wizards and put them through an EZ Fold softbox

Edited by andy-xr on Thursday 28th January 16:45

Are they really that expensive!?

[telford_mike]

I have the Speedlite 430EX - wonderful bit of kit.

More bad news I'm afraid though. If you want to get really creative you'll find cords a bit limiting. They're either too short or they get in the shot or something. The solution to this is the Canon STE2 transmitter. It fits on your camera hotshoe and controls your flash via ETTL.

I find this works brilliantly, and it can control 4 Speedlites at once. The bad news? It's about £150.

[SamHH]

It's quite a complicated topic. Flashgun compatibility comes in two levels: the basic level is that the camera will actually fire the flashgun and the flashgun doesn't fry the camera, but everything is in manual mode. For this, loads of different flashguns will work, many of them available quite cheaply. The higher level of compatibility is where the flashgun will work with the camera's flash metering system (Canon's is called ETTL), meaning you can get automatic exposure. For this, you need a Canon 'EX' flashgun, or certain Sigma and Metz flashguns; a Canon one will cost £200 new, a second-hand one less.

Obviously, automatic exposure can be a great help, especially if you're in a rush, but if you've using the flash off-camera, you'll probably have the time to set the exposure manually and benefit from the extra creative control.

You've then got to have something to trigger the flash. This is where it gets a bit complicated, but basically, you can do it in three ways:

1) With a wire. Cheap(ish), but with the obvious downside that you've got a wire trailing bewtween your camera and the flash. Depending on your camera and the flash, you may also need adapters at either end.

2) Wirelessly, with radio triggers. These slot onto the hotshoe where the flash would normally go on your camera, and similiarly onto the flash's hotshoe foot or some of them connect to the flash with a short wire. Most of them don't give you ETTL metering. They range in cost from £15 to £>400, the more you spend the better the range and reliability. Apparently, you do have to head towards the high end of that range to get properly reliable ones.

3) Wirelessly, with an optical trigger. Similar to radio triggers, but work either with infrared light (like the STE2 posted above) or a dim flash (from a flashgun mounted on the camera) instead of radio waves. The upside is that you retain ETTL metering (if you've got the right sort of flash), the downside is that they're expensive and, unlike radio triggers, they only work on line-of-sight.


Reading back, that doesn't seem too clear, so ask again if there's anything I didn't explain properly.

[telford_mike]

The STE2 is particularly good if you want to take informal pictures of children. You can sit the Speedlite on the floor somewhere inconspicuous, aim it at the ceiling and then just snap away. The kids don't seem to notice the bounce flash at all - certainly it's much less distracting than a direct flash full in the face!

Off-camera flash is very liberating even for informal shots. They almost look like they were taken with no flash at all.



Simple snapshot - Canon 500D on full auto with Speedlite EX430 on the floor about 8 feet away from Amy / STE2 transmitter.

[Ed_P]

SamHH said:

It's quite a complicated topic ...

... Reading back, that doesn't seem too clear, so ask again if there's anything I didn't explain properly.

I think that's a complicated subject explained very well!

I suspect that Louisa is looking (initially) for a budget solution; so a Canon-compatible flash with some Ebay cheap wireless triggers is probably a good way forward. Encourages you too into Manual control and getting a better understanding of lighting and its intricacies. Many Strobist purists wouldn't dream of using wireless ETTL control even though it's available!

Not forgetting either, that an on-camera, hot-shoe flashgun can produce really subtle lighting effects when used properly, so further practice and experimentation here should also been encouraged. Plenty of online resources to explain in more detail.

[VxDuncan]

I've tried optical, wireless with ebay triggers and corded.

Optical is great if you have an expensive flash and maens simple setup. Brilliant to just chuck it somewhere pointing at the ceiling at an event and shoot with full ttl. Once set up it's flexible and the camera helps you a lot, but it doesn't help you learn.

Cables I use when travelling to get the flash a bit off axis yet still hand hold the lot. Okay, if you are planning on doing the octopus holding the lot yourself, or in a fixed studio.

Ebay triggers (less than £20) are a good option to get you started - you need to run full manual though, and will be limited to longer shutter speeds than other methods, which make them a pain to use in daylight. No ttl, you're doing everything yourself...

IMO it comes down to you - do you use the camera in auto mode or the manual (aperture/shutter priority or manual exposure)? If the later probably better to stick to corded or optical, and let the camera do the work. If you're used to running the thing in manual, then ebay triggers are ideal. It is a big learning experience.

Are you the girl that did the band photography (sorry for my poor memory!)? I so I guess these might be to hide behind drumkits and the like at gigs? In which case I'd say try the ebay triggers (the later pt04's are the ones I use), they will be flexible enough to have some fun. Expect frequent frustrations though!

As for guns, obviously make sure it is voltage compatible with your camera, and get one with a full manual settings. Ensure the standby time can be adjusted so the thing doesn't keep going into sleep mode so you miss vital shots.

And post some results...

Edited by VxDuncan on Friday 29th January 11:17

[LongQ]

Louisa911 said:

So if I purchased this:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Canon-off-camera-shoe-cord-2...

and

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Flashgun-Speedlite-For-Nikon...

I would have all the bits needed to be able to direct the flash where I want, off the camera?

Cheers

edit to add: I know the flashgun states its for Nikon in the title but it states Canon within the listing.

Edited by Louisa911 on Thursday 28th January 15:31

You may find reading this Strobist article and subsequent comments ito be helpful. As usual you can expect extremes of views and opinions so your own judgement is important.

http://strobist.blogspot.com/2009/03/manual-flashe...

Grant

[DiscoColin]

For Canon your choices are either an off camera hotshoe cable, PC cables with appropriate widgets for triggering the various ingredients (only the 550 and 580 series guns have a synch cable port by default) or going wireless. For wireless ETTL control of Canon flashes you will need an ST-E2, a Canon 7D or a master flash (550ex, 580ex or 580ex2) on your camera in addition to the remote one that you are firing. The remote(s) can be a 550ex, 580ex, 580ex2, 420ex, 430ex or 430ex2. The other options are radio triggers like pocketwizards (haven't used them, but a semi-pro friend has them and I was impressed) or cheap radio trigger units from eBay.

All of these are notionally expensive, though if you get lucky : eBay can set you free. The 550ex and 580ex have been known to go through from time to time in the £120-150 range and I acquired my perfectly functioning 420ex as a slave from there on a buy it now for 30 quid. But that doesn't happen much.

The hotshoe cable is probably your best starting point. Personally I started when I got the aforementioned 420 for buttons (already had a 580ex2 to fire it remotely) but to be honest still haven't progressed beyond experimentation. But now I have the 7D and can fire both my flashes remotely I see a bit more serious interest in multiple flash in my future. [Particularly as a mate wants me to try doing some proper shots of her kids - something a bit different for me].

[SamHH]

If by "hotshoe cable" you mean this then I wouldn't recommend it:



They're very short and are only meant for mounting the flash the side or above the camera on a bracket. They're not suitable for having the flash properly off-camera, except for macro photos.

[stigmundfreud]

st-e2 is way over priced and way over limited. It has its only good point of being ettl trigger but forget ttl and go manual unless time is of an essence. The ST-E2 uses IR to trigger, great in line of site, st if the sun is shining strong. It has its uese, its over priced though and under spec. Canon need a dedicated wireless trigger system,

Off camera you can use cords but will find them limiting and the PC connectors break, a lot. Oh and btw the 430s dont come with pc connectors so you need stty adapters. If you are going radio trigger forget the cheap chinese imports (cactus) the will work possibly 100% or not at all, they are as reliable as I am in a we house. I wouldnt bet on them working when needed likewise I wouldnt bet on my fidelity in a we house.

You want skyports at the very least or pocket wizards if you have cash to piss up the wall.

[Fordo]

SamHH said:

3) Wirelessly, with an optical trigger. Similar to radio triggers, but work either with infrared light (like the STE2 posted above) or a dim flash (from a flashgun mounted on the camera) instead of radio waves. The upside is that you retain ETTL metering (if you've got the right sort of flash), the downside is that they're expensive and, unlike radio triggers, they only work on line-of-sight..

you forgot to add - and they seem to randomly go off when they like, especially in your face when your handling them......