Critisise my beginners shopping list!

[RichTbiscuit]

So, 3 or 4 weeks since i've started looking at DSLR's as an upgrade from my Sony DSC-H20 (during which i've taken almost 450 photos learning how to fully manipulate the manual settings. Everything from Macro, to landscape, motoring shots with motion blur, nightscape and long exposure shots, pets and people. I've also had a hell of a lot of fun doing it.

So after a lot of thought and web + forum browsing this is what i've come up with as my starting stock. I would have loved to add the Tamron 90mm Macro lens but really can't justify it at the moment (or rather can't persuade the missus to justify it!)

Sony Alpha A550 Digital SLR Camera plus 18-55mm Lens £609.99
Domke F-8 Small Shoulder Bag - Olive £65.99
Sigma 62mm EX DG Circular Polarising Filter £54.99
B+W 62mm 010 UV SH Filter £24.99
Manfrotto 7302YB Tripod £69.00
Sigma 30mm f1.4 EX DC Lens - Sony/Minolta Fit £392.00

I wasn't sure about taking the kit lens, but considering it's only and extra £50 for a lens that costs over £100 if bought seperately I thought it would be foolish not to have at least one flexible lens in the arsenal.

Any thoughts? This is all from Warehouse express btw.

[rasputin]

What do you want to use your kit for?

When I went for a Sony a few months ago (A300 (now A350)), I had some reasons:

1) It felt better in my hands than the other budget options at the time (Nikon D60 or Canon 450D)
2) Image stabilisation helps a lot for some shots.
3) Tilting screen live view - Despite the criticism of live view, for tripod shots this really does make life easier.

But, there are definitely negatives with Sony. Some big ones:
1) High ISO performance seems worse than the Canon/Nikon competition.
2) No availability of hire lenses in the UK. For me this is a major drawback. I can't afford the £500+ quality lenses, but for some specific events I'd love to hire one.

If I was doing it all again I don't think I would go Sony. I wouldn't get a budget model from Canon/Nikon, but probably something second hand and higher class - Canon 40D for example.

[RichTbiscuit]

The main lens I was budgeting for was the Prime 30mm as it's pretty expensive but not one I expect to replace any time soon. I also feel that its a lens that will teach me 'good' photography in that you actually have to move yourself rather than just zooming in and out. I also despise using a flash so this lens is also excellent with max appature of 1.4.

As far as the camera is concerned I already have Sony cameras and am comfortable with the menu system etc, also being able to interchange memory sticks (have a 16gb memstick atm) is very useful.

Kit lens is taken because it's so cheap to go from a body only to a kit lens option and gives me something else to work with should i want to.

[Simpo Two]

1) Sony doesn't give you the upgrade/expansion/second-hand options that Canon and Nikon do. As you're taking the subject seriously and enjoy learning, this may be important to you later on.

2) The view of the 30mm lens is covered by the 18-55; the main advantage being much faster aperture. But if you need f1.4, that's fine. It will allow you to work in lower light, but your DOF will vanish to nothing (I find f1.4 effectively unworkable but perhaps that's just me).

3) Save £24.99 by not buying the UV filter.

4) Choose a bag that's bigger than you currently need...

Edited by Simpo Two on Wednesday 3rd February 12:22

[RichTbiscuit]

Simpo Two said:

1) Sony doesn't give you the upgrade/expansion/second-hand options that Canon and Nikon do. As you're taking the subject seriously and enjoy learning, this may be important to you later on.

Do you think this is just because Sony isn't well enough established as a premium camera maker and given a bit of time it will improve?

Simpo Two said:

2) The view of the 30mm lens is covered by the 18-55; the main advantage being much faster aperture. But if you need f1.4, that's fine.

Surely the quality of the prime is going to be far superior to the kit lens?

Simpo Two said:

3) Save £24.99 by not buying the UV filter.

Seen mixed opinions on them, some people say never leave a lens naked without at least a UV filter. Some say that an extra layer between lens and subject degrades the picture quality. What's your experiences?

Simpo Two said:

4) Choose a bag that's bigger than you currently need...

Noted.

[Nick M]

Simpo Two said:

1) Sony doesn't give you the upgrade/expansion/second-hand options that Canon and Nikon do. As you're taking the subject seriously and enjoy learning, this may be important to you later on.

2) The view of the 30mm lens is covered by the 18-55; the main advantage being much faster aperture. But if you need f1.4, that's fine. It will allow you to work in lower light, but your DOF will vanish to nothing (I find f1.4 effectively unworkable but perhaps that's just me).

3) Save £24.99 by not buying the UV filter.

4) Choose a bag that's bigger than you currently need...

Edited by Simpo Two on Wednesday 3rd February 12:22

+1 to all of that.

Particularly the point about not limiting yourself by buying into a system which may restrict you in future years, or where the lens options are limited and / or expensive.

When I was starting again from scratch I went with a Nikon D70 and the 18-70 kit lens and then gradually discovered where I needed another lens for a particular purpose, such as motorsport photography. And I always tried to get the best possible lenses I could afford, such that now I've got a D3 they're all perfectly suited to that and aren't a limiting factor in the overall equation.

IME it's impossible to know what you need until you've been out there taking pictures for a bit, so hold off the 30mm lens (as Simpo said, that length is covered by the kit lens) and see where you go from there.

[ian in lancs]

Canon & Nikon are the market leaders for a reason. Sony, Olympus et al aren't simply in the same league!

Lenses and accessories are widely available new, secondhand and to rent as said above. Both Nikon & Canon will facilitate growth in your ability and experience and also command better re-sale values. Decent Nikon cameras and lenses usually command secondhand eBay prices of 75% of lowest retail.

[Nick M]

RichTbiscuit said:

Simpo Two said:

1) Sony doesn't give you the upgrade/expansion/second-hand options that Canon and Nikon do. As you're taking the subject seriously and enjoy learning, this may be important to you later on.

Do you think this is just because Sony isn't well enough established as a premium camera maker and given a bit of time it will improve?

Do you want to wear the cost of taking that particular gamble ?? IMO they'll never compete on the same level as Nikon or Canon - they're too diversified for that. They'll produce competant cameras, but never a step-change like the D3 for example.

RichTbiscuit said:

Simpo Two said:

2) The view of the 30mm lens is covered by the 18-55; the main advantage being much faster aperture. But if you need f1.4, that's fine.

Surely the quality of the prime is going to be far superior to the kit lens?

That was perhaps true back in the day when zooms were relatively new technology, but their consistency across a wider range of focal lengths is much improved these days, even for kit lenses. The 30mm has the advantage of a bigger maximum aperture, but that may not always be useful.

RichTbiscuit said:

Simpo Two said:

3) Save £24.99 by not buying the UV filter.

Seen mixed opinions on them, some people say never leave a lens naked without at least a UV filter. Some say that an extra layer between lens and subject degrades the picture quality. What's your experiences?

Opinions vary so much on this one - personally I use them on my expensive lenses for protection, and also because I'm not convinced they make any material difference to the photos, good or bad.

[Simpo Two]

RichTbiscuit said:

Do you think this is just because Sony isn't well enough established as a premium camera maker and given a bit of time it will improve?

I don't think they will ever match the leading makes, no. But they have a useful role at entry/mid-level by offering alternative products.

RichTbiscuit said:

Surely the quality of the prime is going to be far superior to the kit lens?

How do you define an image with 'far superior quality'? There are many things to get familiar with first - personally I'd save the 30mm prime for now and see how you get on with everything else. After a few months you may discover you don't need it after all, or that you need something else more importantly that you currently haven't predicted.

I have a Nikkor 50mm f1.4 because it seemed the lens to get, ie 'better' than the f1.8 I had. In real life it lives in a cupboard, unused. The only prime I actually use is a Micro Nikkor 105mm.

RichTbiscuit said:

Seen mixed opinions on them, some people say never leave a lens naked without at least a UV filter. Some say that an extra layer between lens and subject degrades the picture quality. What's your experiences?

I used to have them, then I realised that in fact I didn't need them because I never rubbed my breakfast in the lens or swung the camera onto pointy rocks - I treat my kit with care and having two extra surfaces to glare and cause problems was better avoided.

However this is all from personal experienc and your needs/wants may well be different. So you have to jump in somewhere and then take it as it develops.



Develops, geddit?

Edited by Simpo Two on Wednesday 3rd February 12:58

[RichTbiscuit]

Ah b*llocks. Just when I think I'd managed to make headway it all gets thrown out the window. But then I guess this is why I came to a forum full of experienced people to get advice (and try not to throw my dolly out the pram when i get posed difficult questions!).

So, budget of around £500 for the body.

Canon 500D - £519
Nikon D5000 - £524
Olympus E620 - £484

Now I start the review reading all over again!

[Simpo Two]

Well, do remember that what's right for Tog 1 is not right for Tog 2. If there was one perfect answer, we would all have exactly the same kit!

Read reviews and take advice, but use your judgement to ignore it - because ATEOTD it will be YOU using the kit, not a reviewer and not me. I think it's pretty standard to make mistakes when buying kit - no big deal - sell it on eBay and get most of your money back.

[TooLateForAName]

You still haven't told us what sort of photography you want to do.

Remember that all the auto minolta lenses work just fine on Sony, so there is plenty of used kit around at good prices.

I would not spend the money on that bag or the uv filter - better putting that money into a flashgun (bags and uv filters can be picked up very cheaply if you just watch the websites for deals.)

[gary71]

I'd support all of the above comments. My first DSLR was a Nikon D70 with 18-70 kit lens, and that served me very well. Eventually being supplemented first by a decent Nikon flashgun, then a 50mm prime. After dropping that (whoops!) I got a D80. I've only just felt the need (scrub that, there was no need, only a want!)to move on from that and have bought a D300s.

Something like a second hand D70 or D80 would be a very good place to start, and you could get a D80, 18-70 lens and an SB600 flash for less than your budget for the bodies you list.

...oh and did I mention I have a D80 body & bits for sale...

[Dogsey]

RichTbiscuit said:

So, budget of around £500 for the body.

Canon 500D - £519
Nikon D5000 - £524
Olympus E620 - £484

Now I start the review reading all over again!

I just bought an ex-display (had fired something like 50 shots!) Canon 40D for £465, it'll knock spots off any of those.

[RichTbiscuit]

TooLateForAName said:

You still haven't told us what sort of photography you want to do.

Remember that all the auto minolta lenses work just fine on Sony, so there is plenty of used kit around at good prices.

I would not spend the money on that bag or the uv filter - better putting that money into a flashgun (bags and uv filters can be picked up very cheaply if you just watch the websites for deals.)

I'm a wanderer. On foot mostly. I'm in the process of moving to a village but am still close to the city and more often than not I like just grabbing the camera and going about on foot. But I never seem to stick to one format, I really do take lots of different types of shots. Ideally i'd love to have the 30mm prime for city and village walkabouts, the 90mm macro and a wide angle lens for landscape work.

[rasputin]

Dogsey said:

RichTbiscuit said:

So, budget of around £500 for the body.

Canon 500D - £519
Nikon D5000 - £524
Olympus E620 - £484

Now I start the review reading all over again!

I just bought an ex-display (had fired something like 50 shots!) Canon 40D for £465, it'll knock spots off any of those.

I think the 40D would be my choice too.

[Major Bloodnok]

And don't cut costs on the tripod. Buy a cheap one now, and you'll be buying another one very soon. Buy the best you can get now, and it'll last you forever.

So, ditch the filters (and the 30mm Sigma) and go for something like a Manfrotto 055XPROB with an 808RC4 T&P head (total cost from Warehouse Express about £185)

[rasputin]

Major Bloodnok said:

And don't cut costs on the tripod. Buy a cheap one now, and you'll be buying another one very soon. Buy the best you can get now, and it'll last you forever.

So, ditch the filters (and the 30mm Sigma) and go for something like a Manfrotto 055XPROB with an 808RC4 T&P head (total cost from Warehouse Express about £185)

Hmmm - lenses come before tripods IMO.

And speaking of lenses, to start with I agree with the others that a 30mm f/1.4 may not be too useful. I'd ditch the kit lens and go for a high quality replacement (my choice was Tamron 28-75mm f/2.8 - but there are others)

[Major Bloodnok]

rasputin said:

Major Bloodnok said:

And don't cut costs on the tripod. Buy a cheap one now, and you'll be buying another one very soon. Buy the best you can get now, and it'll last you forever.

So, ditch the filters (and the 30mm Sigma) and go for something like a Manfrotto 055XPROB with an 808RC4 T&P head (total cost from Warehouse Express about £185)

Hmmm - lenses come before tripods IMO.

Not sure about that, but I'll not argue the point. All I'm saying is, if a tripod's on the list, then going cheap is a false economy. Either get a good one or don't bother.

[mcflurry]

Major Bloodnok said:

Not sure about that, but I'll not argue the point. All I'm saying is, if a tripod's on the list, then going cheap is a false economy. Either get a good one or don't bother.

On the flip side, this is £170 odd cheaper, and should last a year if not abused. That'll go a long way towards a speedlight, and the Manfrotto can follow once funds are replenished