2 pronged question on lenses/settings.

[RobbieB]

Hey guys, I'm still milling around the photography section and practicing.

Question 1: My Dad's having a big birthday party this Saturday with a live band, a hall, a bar and so on. I would like to take some decent pictures but I *hate* using the flash. Problem is I currently only have 1 lens (50mm 1.8) on my Canon 350d. Will it be possible to take decent pictures in the low lightening with out a tripod/remote? How do the photographers in clubs do it?

Question 2: Following on from that question. What do photographers in clubs use to take the pictures they do? For example: http://www.dontstayin.com/uk/london/the-den-centro...

Them. Often have lights going across like in bulb mode but people clear, and a lot of the pictures look bright despite being in the dark with (I think) no flash? Or do I just use the flash further back?

Tips please gents

[RichTbiscuit]

As far as the second question i believe the cameras are used in bulb mode with the flash triggered at the end of the exposure to get the movement trails and the final person. I could be wrong tho!

[Nick M]

RobbieB said:

I would like to take some decent pictures but I *hate* using the flash. Problem is I currently only have 1 lens (50mm 1.8) on my Canon 350d. Will it be possible to take decent pictures in the low lightening with out a tripod/remote? How do the photographers in clubs do it?

Couple of things:

- use the maximum aperture you can, i.e. f1.8
- see what shutter speeds you can reasonably shoot hand-held with no visible camera shake - if you're lucky it'll be around 1/60 but might be 1/100 of a second
- then try to keep the ISO as low as possible to keep the noise under control - check your camera and see if you can put the camera on auto-ISO but with a limit on the maximum ISO, say 800.

RobbieB said:

Question 2: Following on from that question. What do photographers in clubs use to take the pictures they do? For example: http://www.dontstayin.com/uk/london/the-den-centro...

Them. Often have lights going across like in bulb mode but people clear, and a lot of the pictures look bright despite being in the dark with (I think) no flash? Or do I just use the flash further back?

Can't open the image at work (net-nazis) but it's probably slow-synch flash settings which allow some of the image to be blurred and then the camera does a quick flash at the end to freeze the image.

Again, should be a standard setting on the camera which you can experiment with before the event.

[tinman0]

RobbieB said:

Question 1: My Dad's having a big birthday party this Saturday with a live band, a hall, a bar and so on. I would like to take some decent pictures but I *hate* using the flash. Problem is I currently only have 1 lens (50mm 1.8) on my Canon 350d. Will it be possible to take decent pictures in the low lightening with out a tripod/remote? How do the photographers in clubs do it?

Set the iso up to 1600 (you're gonna get a bit of noise), set the camera to AV mode at f1.8, and then hold it as still as you can. Worth practicing as many people seem incapable of holding a camera still. I can get quite low shutter speeds when I need to, but you do have to actually think about it.

Then take bursts of 2-4 frames and expect to kill 50% of the final images at least.

When I've had to do things remotely similar, i've used things around me to either balance the camera on, or even just jam the camera into it. If you hold the camera against a door frame for instance, you can a lot less vibration straight away.

Never going to be perfect, but you'll get away with it for the most part.

[TooLateForAName]

off camera flash helps.

To get blur then static you want second curtain flash.

[Simpo Two]

You hate using flash but like photos taken with it?

There are two main things that give those photos the look you like. One is the slow synch flash (time to check your manual!); the other is that they were taken with a 10-20mm lens or maybe even wider.

So you'll lose the fisheye effect with a 50mm lens, but may still be able to do the slow synch flash if your camera allows - or set everything to manual.

The built-in flash will give red-eye and is unlikely to be powerful enough, so unless you're going to use just ambient light (which won't look anything at all like the photos) you'll need a big jobbie that goes on the hotshoe.

If you don't have that, try ambient light - aperture priority, set to about f3.2 for starters so you have a some DOF, crank ISO to 800 and see what shutter speed you can get. On the basis that some image is better than no image, in extremis you can push to f1.8 and ISO1600 but you'll get noise and a pretty unusable DOF.

Big flash is your answer I fear

[Gnits]

As said already said, second curtain flash using a nice off camera powerful flash and a wider lens.

[RobbieB]

Right cheers guys.

Sorry I should have been a bit more specific. I hate using the bog standard flash when it's low lighting because you lose ambience and everyone just becomes 7 shades whiter, get devil eyes and it all looks a bit amateur. Now I knew you could use seperate flashes, but the sync flash is new to me. I'll google it

[Simpo Two]

It's also to do with how you mix ambient and flash light. By default many flashes try to make the whole exposure - anything close gets blitzed and the background goes black. What the tog is doing is using a good chunk of ambient to get something in the b/g and then a soupcon of fill-flash to fill the foreground and freeze the action. There's much more to flash than just 'Auto'!

[RobbieB]

Simpo Two said:

It's also to do with how you mix ambient and flash light. By default many flashes try to make the whole exposure - anything close gets blitzed and the background goes black. What the tog is doing is using a good chunk of ambient to get something in the b/g and then a soupcon of fill-flash to fill the foreground and freeze the action. There's much more to flash than just 'Auto'!

Played around with some settings (though recreating a nightclub-esque location is not easy!) and I see what you are saying. It must be using that setting. So thanks for that.

Now I need you opinion. How good (or probably bad) is this lens?:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&am...

I see it cropping up here and there, and I want to increase my lens collection on the cheap, then maybe save up and get a better version of the ones I prefer and I am lacking anything with zoom!

[Simpo Two]

RobbieB said:

Now I need you opinion. How good (or probably bad) is this lens?:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&am...

It won't be the greatest quality, but it's cheap - and you rarely get both. If you plan to use it at the party and light is low, it may well struggle to focus - which is one reason why serious folk have to pay more for fast lenses. That said, if I get the new Sigma 70-200 f2.8 OS then my current version will need a new home...

[RobbieB]

Simpo Two said:

RobbieB said:

Now I need you opinion. How good (or probably bad) is this lens?:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&am...

It won't be the greatest quality, but it's cheap - and you rarely get both. If you plan to use it at the party and light is low, it may well struggle to focus - which is one reason why serious folk have to pay more for fast lenses. That said, if I get the new Sigma 70-200 f2.8 OS then my current version will need a new home...

I saw your post on that actually. Well PM me when you get hold of it and we can discuss it a bit further!

I would use that zoom lens for the party anyway. I think I'll leave it for now, stick some money away and wait for something a bit better.

[gary71]

How did you get on with this in the end?

A work colleague has asked me to take a few pictures at her leaving do, similar set up to that you describe. Bulb and a pop of flash seems the way, but any other tips are welcome!

I'll be experimenting in a darkened room before I go

D300s; 50mm 1.8; 24-70 2.8; 10-20 f5.6; SB600

[fozthedevil]

i shoot a fair bit in clubs for a mate whos a dj,

my usual mixture is d300 with a 10-20 and a flash,

usually set to about iso 800 ish 2nd of a second, and flash set to rear sync,

so your getting the ambient but freezing the motion

and if every ones getting a bit white could always warm the flash up a bit witha gel

[AndWhyNot]

I always shoot front curtain flash so the people are where you want them to be when the shutter opens rather than guessing where you want them to be when the flash eventually fires.

[Nick Grant]

To get away without flash and use only available light in a "club" I found ISO 3200 and F1.2 were required to freeze the action...


Rhythm Riot 2010 006 by NickGrant.co.uk, on Flickr


Rhythm Riot 2010 036 by NickGrant.co.uk, on Flickr

[AndWhyNot]

Nick Grant said:

To get away without flash and use only available light in a "club" I found ISO 3200 and F1.2 were required to freeze the action...

Yup, there's always that

[gary71]

Cheers for the tips.

Front curtain flash makes more sense.

Time for some experiments!

[flat-planedCrank]

Nick Grant said:

To get away without flash and use only available light in a "club" I found ISO 3200 and F1.2 were required to freeze the action...


Rhythm Riot 2010 006 by NickGrant.co.uk, on Flickr


Rhythm Riot 2010 036 by NickGrant.co.uk, on Flickr

What's that, a full stop more?

(said it before and I'll say it again - those are a superb set of shots)