Discussion
I got a copy of Photoshop Elements 8 for Christmas last year. Got it out the box and installed it two weeks ago. So far it's done nothing but f
k me off and raise my blood pressure. Spent an hour and a half tonight trying to create a simple exposure blend between two images. First hour was spent trying to work out files, layers and basic commands. Next half hour was after I discovered there's a wizard to do it. Distinctly unimpressed with results from either method.
Clearly it's me as others manage amazing results but in the little experience I've had I seriously wish I hadn't bothered.
What's the secret?
k me off and raise my blood pressure. Spent an hour and a half tonight trying to create a simple exposure blend between two images. First hour was spent trying to work out files, layers and basic commands. Next half hour was after I discovered there's a wizard to do it. Distinctly unimpressed with results from either method.Clearly it's me as others manage amazing results but in the little experience I've had I seriously wish I hadn't bothered.
What's the secret?
It really does depend if you want to invest the time into learning it, or just want to use it as a quick photo editing tool.
If you want to invest some time looking at the power of photoshop (and it is immense) then try some of the tutorials that are around on the web. These will give you a good grasp of what it can do and how.
Some good ones are found on www.smashingmagazine.com for example:
http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2010/09/22/round-u... - This is a link to a lot of tutorials with everything you probably need to do.
If you want to invest some time looking at the power of photoshop (and it is immense) then try some of the tutorials that are around on the web. These will give you a good grasp of what it can do and how.
Some good ones are found on www.smashingmagazine.com for example:
http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2010/09/22/round-u... - This is a link to a lot of tutorials with everything you probably need to do.
RacingPete said:
It really does depend if you want to invest the time into learning it, or just want to use it as a quick photo editing tool.
If you want to invest some time looking at the power of photoshop (and it is immense) then try some of the tutorials that are around on the web. These will give you a good grasp of what it can do and how.
Some good ones are found on www.smashingmagazine.com for example:
http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2010/09/22/round-u... - This is a link to a lot of tutorials with everything you probably need to do.
Cheers for the links, I'll peep at those.If you want to invest some time looking at the power of photoshop (and it is immense) then try some of the tutorials that are around on the web. These will give you a good grasp of what it can do and how.
Some good ones are found on www.smashingmagazine.com for example:
http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2010/09/22/round-u... - This is a link to a lot of tutorials with everything you probably need to do.
I use Aperture for my day to day photo processing and it does what I need - all bar layering multiple exposures. Can't ever see myself getting into serious image manipulation.
AndWhyNot said:
RacingPete said:
It really does depend if you want to invest the time into learning it, or just want to use it as a quick photo editing tool.
If you want to invest some time looking at the power of photoshop (and it is immense) then try some of the tutorials that are around on the web. These will give you a good grasp of what it can do and how.
Some good ones are found on www.smashingmagazine.com for example:
http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2010/09/22/round-u... - This is a link to a lot of tutorials with everything you probably need to do.
Cheers for the links, I'll peep at those.If you want to invest some time looking at the power of photoshop (and it is immense) then try some of the tutorials that are around on the web. These will give you a good grasp of what it can do and how.
Some good ones are found on www.smashingmagazine.com for example:
http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2010/09/22/round-u... - This is a link to a lot of tutorials with everything you probably need to do.
I use Aperture for my day to day photo processing and it does what I need - all bar layering multiple exposures. Can't ever see myself getting into serious image manipulation.
Never have got to grips with layers.
I have a task to complete that, ideally, required some tidying of messy areas and, much as I am wary of Adobe products for a number of reasons, decide that the nw 'Content Aware' spot healing might do the trick and then that it was available in PSE9. Hurrah!
So I downloaded the trail to see if it would do hat I want it to do. After all, all the video presentaions I have seen produce remarkable results ....
1.7Gb - yep, Gigabytes! - of download later I ran the install and it did everything then undid it and said it had failed for some reason - probably spotted itself running as usual and decided it could not complete.
Ran it again and it worked - or at least didn't complain - but then tried to tempt me into downloading the rest of the Adobe site. I decided my almost new and very empty 500Gb drive was probably not big enough for any more bloat.
Anyway, so I worked out, more or less, what I thought I needed to know about layers to run this tool and painted away. Mixed results - few of them like the videos.
As yet I have not found anything that explains how it decides where it is going to clone from but it seems to be variable according to direction of brush stroke and, possibly rather erratically (I'm just not sure yet), the size of the 'brush'. And a random whim.
Suffice to say that so far I can get bits of the edit to work acceptably well and other bits just not at all right. I'll try to be fair and admit that it is a bit tricky - but no trickier than the demo videos seem happy to deal with.
Oh well, just have to keep trying I suppose. Or leave the image more or less as it is. I can cover the most important cloning requirement using applications with which I am more familiar.
I remember being baffled by PS as well (I think it was PS 5.5 then). Nothing makes any sense at first, especially if you're used to an MS Word-type environment. PS is fantastically complex, you can't just get in and drive off. I'm self-taught and probably only know 5% of it, but it's the 5% I need to do what I need to do. In short, keep persevering and eventually you will find out how to think the way PS does.
Many people seem to be obsessed with layers and masks. Most of my work uses no more than two layers, and one rather clever mask technique I found somewhere.
As for the clone tool, if it's like CS2 that I use now, you select the 'from area' using Alt. Brush size, opacity and edge softness are all important to get the results you want.
Many people seem to be obsessed with layers and masks. Most of my work uses no more than two layers, and one rather clever mask technique I found somewhere.
As for the clone tool, if it's like CS2 that I use now, you select the 'from area' using Alt. Brush size, opacity and edge softness are all important to get the results you want.
I have to admit I went through a similar process when I first installed PS7. I just couldn't get my head round it and, a few days later, I promptly uninstalled it.
It was several months before I re-installed it, and the second time around I actually took the time to sit down with a few tutorials and learnt the basics. I haven't looked back since.
It's not intuitive, but it is worth persevering with.
It was several months before I re-installed it, and the second time around I actually took the time to sit down with a few tutorials and learnt the basics. I haven't looked back since.
It's not intuitive, but it is worth persevering with.
Simpo Two said:
I remember being baffled by PS as well (I think it was PS 5.5 then). Nothing makes any sense at first, especially if you're used to an MS Word-type environment. PS is fantastically complex, you can't just get in and drive off. I'm self-taught and probably only know 5% of it, but it's the 5% I need to do what I need to do. In short, keep persevering and eventually you will find out how to think the way PS does.
Many people seem to be obsessed with layers and masks. Most of my work uses no more than two layers, and one rather clever mask technique I found somewhere.
As for the clone tool, if it's like CS2 that I use now, you select the 'from area' using Alt. Brush size, opacity and edge softness are all important to get the results you want.
I rarely feel even the need to do the full graphic artist bit that layers addresses let alone any form of desire (just as well as I have no artistic talent per se). So I suppose the issue is about whether to spend ages getting to grips with PS/PSE/Similar to use it a handful of times.Many people seem to be obsessed with layers and masks. Most of my work uses no more than two layers, and one rather clever mask technique I found somewhere.
As for the clone tool, if it's like CS2 that I use now, you select the 'from area' using Alt. Brush size, opacity and edge softness are all important to get the results you want.
In this case the main attraction of the application is the Context Sensitive cloning. Now as far as I can tell using the Context Sensitive part is designed to require no input from the user at all other than to identify how big is the subject/area to be altered and, perhaps, some tweaking of the 'brush'. As yet I have not found anything in the Help system or related videos that offers helpful information about how the 'Context Sensitive' choices are made. It leaves me wondering whether my time wouold be better spent getting stuck in with the simple clone tools from other applications I know better - though the thought of making the edits and the time it will take does not appeal at all.
Oh well, time to stop moaning about it and just get on and do it I suppose, whichever approach I decide to take.
I use Autocad for design work which also uses layers, you have to be well disciplined to make best use of them otherwise you end up doing edits on the wrong layer. The same principles I find apply to layers in PSE8, once you get to grips with the layers concept it is good as you can have a layer for each edit you do and each can individually be reversed to original image without affecting other edits.
Having said that I hate post processing on the PC and prefer to get the picture right with the camera.
I've also found PSE8 to be quite buggy, it will lock up at critical moments of an edit and lose work and also when I try and print to my HP Designjet it often tells me no printer is installed and gets itself into a proper ravel. I wouldnt buy PSE again and am on the verge of dumping the PC for photo work and getting a Mac Mini instead.
Having said that I hate post processing on the PC and prefer to get the picture right with the camera.
I've also found PSE8 to be quite buggy, it will lock up at critical moments of an edit and lose work and also when I try and print to my HP Designjet it often tells me no printer is installed and gets itself into a proper ravel. I wouldnt buy PSE again and am on the verge of dumping the PC for photo work and getting a Mac Mini instead.
AndWhyNot said:
SamHH said:
What parts of the two photos are you trying to blend into each other?
Landscape with a horizon where you'd normally use GND - one of my darling kids had seen my filter holder and decided it looked like a great bracelet so I arrived to the location without it.Maybe you could post links to the two photos on here and someone can see if they can get the result you're after?
LongQ said:
Now as far as I can tell using the Context Sensitive part is designed to require no input from the user at all other than to identify how big is the subject/area to be altered and, perhaps, some tweaking of the 'brush'. As yet I have not found anything in the Help system or related videos that offers helpful information about how the 'Context Sensitive' choices are made. It leaves me wondering whether my time wouold be better spent getting stuck in with the simple clone tools from other applications I know better - though the thought of making the edits and the time it will take does not appeal at all.
I did wonder, when I was posting the earlier reply, whether Elements is a bit 'dumbed down' in that it makes decisions for you - not unlike 'scene modes' on cameras - when in fact if you know what you're doing you can do it better yourself.The clone tool in CS2 - call it a 'manual' clone tool if you like - isn't the answer in every situation but can certainly achieve amazing results if used with due thought. As a mentioned earlier, brush size, edge, selection area and sometimes opacity all need to be juggled - but if you keep your eyes open and your brains on it's usually very quick and easy.
Simpo Two said:
LongQ said:
Now as far as I can tell using the Context Sensitive part is designed to require no input from the user at all other than to identify how big is the subject/area to be altered and, perhaps, some tweaking of the 'brush'. As yet I have not found anything in the Help system or related videos that offers helpful information about how the 'Context Sensitive' choices are made. It leaves me wondering whether my time wouold be better spent getting stuck in with the simple clone tools from other applications I know better - though the thought of making the edits and the time it will take does not appeal at all.
I did wonder, when I was posting the earlier reply, whether Elements is a bit 'dumbed down' in that it makes decisions for you - not unlike 'scene modes' on cameras - when in fact if you know what you're doing you can do it better yourself.The clone tool in CS2 - call it a 'manual' clone tool if you like - isn't the answer in every situation but can certainly achieve amazing results if used with due thought. As a mentioned earlier, brush size, edge, selection area and sometimes opacity all need to be juggled - but if you keep your eyes open and your brains on it's usually very quick and easy.
The intention is clearly to speed up basic edits without anyone having to understand what is going on. Magic! There are other modes of operation available for cloning of course, including the more traditional variants. However the challenge (for me on this project) is that my 'quite similar to the videos' complexity of image clearly isn't quite as similar as it seemed to be OR there are some knacks to get the required result that are known to the video makers but not obviously shared anywhere so far. Presumably the knacks add to the complexity and that would dilute the marketing message of the 'magic'.
I may need to revert to traditional cloning if I can't work out how to get the control I need - in which case I can probably do it in a different application and save the cost of buying PSE/PS.
I'm not saying the functionality is bad - just that it's not quite as magical as it may seem in theory. No surprise really.
RacingPete said:
It really does depend if you want to invest the time into learning it, or just want to use it as a quick photo editing tool.
If you want to invest some time looking at the power of photoshop (and it is immense) then try some of the tutorials that are around on the web. These will give you a good grasp of what it can do and how.
Some good ones are found on www.smashingmagazine.com for example:
http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2010/09/22/round-u... - This is a link to a lot of tutorials with everything you probably need to do.
thanks so much for those links If you want to invest some time looking at the power of photoshop (and it is immense) then try some of the tutorials that are around on the web. These will give you a good grasp of what it can do and how.
Some good ones are found on www.smashingmagazine.com for example:
http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2010/09/22/round-u... - This is a link to a lot of tutorials with everything you probably need to do.
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