Headlight and Rear Fog Issue
Discussion
Ok I have moved this to a subject in its own right as it might get lost in the title of 'water pump'. Thank you to Andrew tvrgit) for your initial response...........
I have an issue with both rear fogs and main beam headlights. If I explain what is happening first and then someone may have come across this before.
Firstly, if I simply switch on the side lights with no ignition I get just sidelights as you would expect. As soon as I switch on the ignition I get what appears to be a dim version of headlights, I assume that this is the 'dim dip' feature. When I switch on headlights nothing changes they still appear to be slightly dimmer than a normal dipped headlight but not sure if this is correct or not.
If I use the headlamp main beam flash only, I get a main beam that is much brighter, but if I use the switch to switch on normal dipped main beam nothing happens it stays on what I believe is dim dip.
The dip switch itself appears to be working as whilst trying to trace the fault I had an intermittant fault on the nearside headlamp wiring... while the fault was there the headlamp main beam mode worked because the O/S main beam came on when I tried it but it then just faded back to dim, (hope this is not a confusing explanation).
I have checked all fuses by removing them and checking continuity of the fuses with a meter.
I dont know whether I am confusing myself with the rear fog issue too, because looking at the V6 wiring diagram in the 'Bible' there is a Red with Brown tracer wire coming from fuse k to the rear fog lamp switch. However, on the other side of this fuse there is a blue wire, this blue wire originates from the dim dip relay and shares a feed with the dim dip module and both the side/headlight switch and the dip main beam and flash switch. I cant help feeling that both the issues are related as the rear fogs should only come on with headlights which means no feed to headlights = no feed to rear fog lights !!!!
I will get in there with a meter tomorrow but I feel that there may be an issue with the blue feed which is affecting both rear fog and headlights I'll try to check out the blue wire to fuse k... Equally, it appears the blue wire gets its feed via a slate wire from fuse b I will also check this out via the fuse and the side/headlight switch.
Does anyone know the arrangement of the fuse box ie is a,b,c,d, across the top as you look at the fuse block.
I hope that I haven't confused everyone else like I appear to have confused myself !
Regards
Graham
I have an issue with both rear fogs and main beam headlights. If I explain what is happening first and then someone may have come across this before.
Firstly, if I simply switch on the side lights with no ignition I get just sidelights as you would expect. As soon as I switch on the ignition I get what appears to be a dim version of headlights, I assume that this is the 'dim dip' feature. When I switch on headlights nothing changes they still appear to be slightly dimmer than a normal dipped headlight but not sure if this is correct or not.
If I use the headlamp main beam flash only, I get a main beam that is much brighter, but if I use the switch to switch on normal dipped main beam nothing happens it stays on what I believe is dim dip.
The dip switch itself appears to be working as whilst trying to trace the fault I had an intermittant fault on the nearside headlamp wiring... while the fault was there the headlamp main beam mode worked because the O/S main beam came on when I tried it but it then just faded back to dim, (hope this is not a confusing explanation).
I have checked all fuses by removing them and checking continuity of the fuses with a meter.
I dont know whether I am confusing myself with the rear fog issue too, because looking at the V6 wiring diagram in the 'Bible' there is a Red with Brown tracer wire coming from fuse k to the rear fog lamp switch. However, on the other side of this fuse there is a blue wire, this blue wire originates from the dim dip relay and shares a feed with the dim dip module and both the side/headlight switch and the dip main beam and flash switch. I cant help feeling that both the issues are related as the rear fogs should only come on with headlights which means no feed to headlights = no feed to rear fog lights !!!!
I will get in there with a meter tomorrow but I feel that there may be an issue with the blue feed which is affecting both rear fog and headlights I'll try to check out the blue wire to fuse k... Equally, it appears the blue wire gets its feed via a slate wire from fuse b I will also check this out via the fuse and the side/headlight switch.
Does anyone know the arrangement of the fuse box ie is a,b,c,d, across the top as you look at the fuse block.
I hope that I haven't confused everyone else like I appear to have confused myself !
Regards
Graham
[quote=In the other thread, tvrgit]
Any clues to what the headlight problem is? It could be the fuse, the switch, the connector(s) beside the bonnet hinges, or at the lights themselves. If both are not working, I'd be checking the fuse and switch first. You need to get in there with a meter or test lamp and find out if power is reaching the switch, and then if the switch is actually making the circuit when you move it.
Rear Fogs - similarly, you need to find out how far along the circuit power is getting. I had this very problem only last week, if you look at my website at http://www.tvrgit.com and the diary entry for Friday (11 May) you'll see that in my case, after dismantling half the interior to get to the switch to test it, it was corrosion inside the switch - dismantle switch, clean that up and all sorted!
[/quote]
Based on all of the information you've posted now, I think your problem is in the headlights switch - it's working on "flash" but not switching the lights on otherwise - suggests burnt or dirty contacts (or a broken operating arm inside the switch).
You're right that the rear fogs only get a supply when the dip headlights are on - I spent ages tracing the wiring in the wiring diagram so that I could isolate the rear fogs problem on mine last week. So I suspect that these are related to that one fault.
Any clues to what the headlight problem is? It could be the fuse, the switch, the connector(s) beside the bonnet hinges, or at the lights themselves. If both are not working, I'd be checking the fuse and switch first. You need to get in there with a meter or test lamp and find out if power is reaching the switch, and then if the switch is actually making the circuit when you move it.
Rear Fogs - similarly, you need to find out how far along the circuit power is getting. I had this very problem only last week, if you look at my website at http://www.tvrgit.com and the diary entry for Friday (11 May) you'll see that in my case, after dismantling half the interior to get to the switch to test it, it was corrosion inside the switch - dismantle switch, clean that up and all sorted!
[/quote]
Based on all of the information you've posted now, I think your problem is in the headlights switch - it's working on "flash" but not switching the lights on otherwise - suggests burnt or dirty contacts (or a broken operating arm inside the switch).
You're right that the rear fogs only get a supply when the dip headlights are on - I spent ages tracing the wiring in the wiring diagram so that I could isolate the rear fogs problem on mine last week. So I suspect that these are related to that one fault.
The multi-pin connectors either side of the bonnet hinges are notorious for causing all sorts of mysterious and intermittent problems. When I first got mine I spent many hours trying to trace similar problems and eventually found all the front lighting issues were down to these crap connectors. The rear light bulb holders and their connectors are equally infamous for causing strange and intermittent rear light cluster problems. If you go back a few pages you’ll find some recent threads in these issues and some solutions.
Eg
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Eg
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
v8s4me said:
The multi-pin connectors either side of the bonnet hinges are notorious for causing all sorts of mysterious and intermittent problems. When I first got mine I spent many hours trying to trace similar problems and eventually found all the front lighting issues were down to these crap connectors. The rear light bulb holders and their connectors are equally infamous for causing strange and intermittent rear light cluster problems. If you go back a few pages you’ll find some recent threads in these issues and some solutions.
Eg
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
You might be right, but the lights wouldn't then work in the "flash" position either. Eg
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
I'll check things out with a meter and report back, whatever I find.........thanks for the suggestions ! I know the front connections are dodgy and have new waterproof ones ready to fit, maybe I'll now do that first, but, as they work on dip and flash its unlikely to be the whole cause of the problem but its certainly something that needs doing anyway.
Regards
Graham
Regards
Graham
tvrgit said:
v8s4me said:
The multi-pin connectors either side of the bonnet hinges are notorious for causing all sorts of mysterious and intermittent problems. When I first got mine I spent many hours trying to trace similar problems and eventually found all the front lighting issues were down to these crap connectors. The rear light bulb holders and their connectors are equally infamous for causing strange and intermittent rear light cluster problems. If you go back a few pages you’ll find some recent threads in these issues and some solutions.
Eg
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
You might be right, but the lights wouldn't then work in the "flash" position either. Eg
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Oldred_V8S said:
tvrgit said:
v8s4me said:
The multi-pin connectors either side of the bonnet hinges are notorious for causing all sorts of mysterious and intermittent problems. When I first got mine I spent many hours trying to trace similar problems and eventually found all the front lighting issues were down to these crap connectors. The rear light bulb holders and their connectors are equally infamous for causing strange and intermittent rear light cluster problems. If you go back a few pages you’ll find some recent threads in these issues and some solutions.
Eg
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
You might be right, but the lights wouldn't then work in the "flash" position either. Eg
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Andrew.....I think you are right having had another look at the wiring diagram this morning the feed to the headlight/main beam switch is from the main light switch, this also feeds the blue wire which goes to the fog light feed. I will meter these through this afternoon when I get back but everything points that way now, the two issues are linked. If I have to I will run in a direct feed to prove it. I'll let you know for sure. Thanks again guys for all of the responses they really help with some encouragement when you are trying to get going again Regards Graham
Ok now removed switches and metered through the wiring.
If I bridge out the blue wire to the slate wire, I now get all headlights and rear fog, both dip proper, and beam, work through the dip switch. Rear fog works when the headlights are on.
So almost being positive the switch is now at fault, by metering the contacts on the switch, no contact is made through any of the terminals whatever position the switch is in. So being curious I have taken the switch apart and found the link between the slate and blue wires internally to the switch have melted plastic around them which indicates that this is the fault.
So the million dollar question now is where to source a new switch from ? The alternative parts list is not really clear and I had an old Sierra switch I kept from my kit car day,s but this is totally different to the one which is fitted.
I have had a quick trawl of eBay but no luck so far does anyone know where I can obtain a switch from ?
Regards
Graham
If I bridge out the blue wire to the slate wire, I now get all headlights and rear fog, both dip proper, and beam, work through the dip switch. Rear fog works when the headlights are on.
So almost being positive the switch is now at fault, by metering the contacts on the switch, no contact is made through any of the terminals whatever position the switch is in. So being curious I have taken the switch apart and found the link between the slate and blue wires internally to the switch have melted plastic around them which indicates that this is the fault.
So the million dollar question now is where to source a new switch from ? The alternative parts list is not really clear and I had an old Sierra switch I kept from my kit car day,s but this is totally different to the one which is fitted.
I have had a quick trawl of eBay but no luck so far does anyone know where I can obtain a switch from ?
Regards
Graham
http://www.newfordpartsonline.co.uk/index.php?prod...
Its escort steering column not sierra
I can confirm these work I have bought 2 of them.
Its escort steering column not sierra
I can confirm these work I have bought 2 of them.
Edited by Barkychoc on Wednesday 16th May 16:54
Barkychoc said:
Its escort steering column not sierra
Always been under the impression it's Sierra ? Quite possible same switches were carried across between various Fords?Was a thread about column switches little while ago along the lines of some switches "look right" but they end up too close to steering wheel (or could be dashboard) when fitted ?
Lost the plot a bit so is it the indicator/flash switch you need or this one.....
phillpot said:
Barkychoc said:
Its escort steering column not sierra
Always been under the impression it's Sierra ? Quite possible same switches were carried across between various Fords?Was a thread about column switches little while ago along the lines of some switches "look right" but they end up too close to steering wheel (or could be dashboard) when fitted ?
Lost the plot a bit so is it the indicator/flash switch you need or this one.....
It was from a Sierra 2.0i Laser -86
I've suffered two melted switches. I have now fitted a relay in the circuit, and I would advise you to do the same. I put a post up a couple of months ago about were the switches were from. I'm abroad at the moment and posting from my phone so I can't search easily. I'll update when I get back. I also promise a write up on fitting a relay which I must do. Cheers Tim
Looks like they used that one on Escort (81-85) on some models, the important part is to make sure it has the "horn-button". Did not find any pictures of the switch 
Sierra Laser -87
Sierra Laser -87
Hi all thaks for the responses....
Barkychoc, yes it is the wash/wipe lignt switch similar to the one in your photo, mine has a metal case at the top but still looks very similar to the one in your photo, maybe just a cosmetic difference.
I can understand the reason for the auto electrician saying the failure was due wiring, mentioned in another post. It only takes a connection to go high resistance to produce enough heat to melt switch contacts.
Having stripped the switch I understand exactly how it works..it must do other things as there are more wires but basically from a lighting point of view...Pushing the switch up once puts on sidelights which are permanently live so they work without ign on. Position 2, bridges the slate wire terminal which is live only with the ign on and the blue wire which feeds the main beam dip switch and the rear fog switch. This is to make sure that the headlights only work ign on and the rear fog only works with head lights on..'simples' !
My early switch does not bridge the two terminals mentioned I wonder if the very early car it came from had rear fogs ?
Still need a switch though l will look through previous posts and see what can glean !
In the meantime I may have a go at soldering in some new brass terminals to the old switch (nothing to lose) it may just give me a stop gap and get me through MOT and BOR !
Regards
Graham
Barkychoc, yes it is the wash/wipe lignt switch similar to the one in your photo, mine has a metal case at the top but still looks very similar to the one in your photo, maybe just a cosmetic difference.
I can understand the reason for the auto electrician saying the failure was due wiring, mentioned in another post. It only takes a connection to go high resistance to produce enough heat to melt switch contacts.
Having stripped the switch I understand exactly how it works..it must do other things as there are more wires but basically from a lighting point of view...Pushing the switch up once puts on sidelights which are permanently live so they work without ign on. Position 2, bridges the slate wire terminal which is live only with the ign on and the blue wire which feeds the main beam dip switch and the rear fog switch. This is to make sure that the headlights only work ign on and the rear fog only works with head lights on..'simples' !
My early switch does not bridge the two terminals mentioned I wonder if the very early car it came from had rear fogs ?
Still need a switch though l will look through previous posts and see what can glean !
In the meantime I may have a go at soldering in some new brass terminals to the old switch (nothing to lose) it may just give me a stop gap and get me through MOT and BOR !
Regards
Graham
I know this may make some people cringe...... but another thought. If I cant get the switch repaired or a replacement quickly, I could just use it for side lights and then fit a new rocker switch into the circuit for the headlights it will get me out of trouble for the moment, get me through MOT and Back On the Road. Dont see a problem using two switches as long as the lights work as they should. It may be a long term answer to fit a supplementary switch panel and get rid of the original light switch on the column altogether as it is so dodgy.
Regards
Graham
Regards
Graham
shoab said:
I know this may make some people cringe...... but another thought. If I cant get the switch repaired or a replacement quickly, I could just use it for side lights and then fit a new rocker switch into the circuit for the headlights it will get me out of trouble for the moment, get me through MOT and Back On the Road. Dont see a problem using two switches as long as the lights work as they should. It may be a long term answer to fit a supplementary switch panel and get rid of the original light switch on the column altogether as it is so dodgy.
Regards
Graham
If it's that or no MOT, I know which I would choose...Regards
Graham
The switch in the photo is my "spare" but if it will get you out of trouble I'd be happy to lend it to you for a couple of weeks till you can locate one (or design an alternative).
All I'd ask is you refund my postage costs and stick a pound or two in the charity collection at SCH 2012, you are going aren't you ?
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