Clutch Question ?
Discussion
On my S2 I am having difficulty engaging gear unless I select second gear and then the gear I require, especially reverse. The hydraulics seem fine and the clutch lever travel seems adequate. There are no noises from the clutch either de pressed or otherwise. Some one suggested that the clutch plate is dry on the spline and that's what's causing the problem. Has anyone else had this problem? and how did they cure it. Is there enough access to lubricate the spline or the bearing without removing gearbox? If all else fails, how much does it cost to have the clutch replaced? is it an engine out job? Suggestions, advice and personal experiences very welcome.
Tony. TCB.
Tony. TCB.
Mine won't go into first very easily. Got my mechanic doing a clutch change as I type, so hopefully will be sorted when I get it back!!
He has already replaced my hydraulics and told me clutch adjustment was at max so basically, clutch is worn out. I have got 85K on the clock so not bad if original clutch.
Dont know what it is going to cost, got that pleasure to come!!
He has already replaced my hydraulics and told me clutch adjustment was at max so basically, clutch is worn out. I have got 85K on the clock so not bad if original clutch.
Dont know what it is going to cost, got that pleasure to come!!
I have since had information that it is a dry spigot bearing on the end of the gearbox shaft due to being laid up for a while. What I want to know is how this can be cured without taking the gearbox out. I'd be interested to hear from anyone who has had a new clutch installed to see if the spigot bearing has been replaced and how much it all cost. It's beginning to look like it may be a gearbox out job.
Tony. TCB.
Tony. TCB.
Hello Tony,
Had fun with my clutch years back now here are a few good links to clutch issues.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Had fun with my clutch years back now here are a few good links to clutch issues.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
ElvisWedgely said:
I have since had information that it is a dry spigot bearing on the end of the gearbox shaft due to being laid up for a while.
Might be but personally I doubt it?However if the box ends up coming out (or the engine) I would change it along with clutch disc, pressure plate and release bearing.
No idea on cost, do most of my own repairs, but it's a good days work for someone who knows what they're doing so maybe around 8 hours at £? per hour + parts
phillpot said:
Might be but personally I doubt it?
Why do you doubt it could be the spigot bearing? I've been told that putting it into second gear before selecting any other gear lines up the plate and stops the spinning in the gearbox to achieve gear selection. Naturally, if I change the clutch I will change all three parts plus the spigot bearing but I am just trying to narrow it down by elimination, using the information from those who have had a similar problem. What else do you think it could be judging by the symptoms and that there is no untoward noises?.Tony. TCB.
ElvisWedgely said:
Why do you doubt it could be the spigot bearing?
Ok, the spigot bearing is a slim needle roller bearing that supports the front of the first motion shaft. I can see no reason why standing for any length of time should cause it to sieze, grease is grease and would remain on the rollers until next time it turns. Worst senario, it could be a little dry and have stuck but first time it was used again I think 170 odd BHP might free it off?So lets say its tight, maybe dragging a bit, that would cause the first motion shaft to continue turning with the engine when the clutch is dis-engaged. This could possibly cause difficulty/crunching when trying to select a gear but that would be a new one on me whereas worn out clutches or the clutch friction disc sticking on rusty or dirty splines is a little more common.
All imho, I hope I'm wrong and you do only need a six quid bearing
On a cold start after not using for a couple of days, mine, because of where I park, I have to reverse, and it usually requires a quick rattle round with the gear lever without lifting the clutch, first, second then select reverse, or it grates. Once this first fiddle has been done its ok for the whole day. I Just put it down to TVR character.
Hope its nothing worse, mine has only done 50000 miles.
Hope its nothing worse, mine has only done 50000 miles.
Thanks for the replies to all. Phillpot, thanks for the info, it is very helpful. At the end of the day if if is the spigot bearing or any part of the clutch, it would mean the gearbox out, and that would mean big money. But, needs must, and if it has to be done I will have to do it. I am just asking for ideas so as I can eliminate the simple stuff first. I'd hate to change the clutch and then find it was something much simpler. However, the car is still very drivable, once you get used to selecting the second gear when there is gear selection difficulty, which is not all the time. I've been driving manual cars now for 40 years and have had many clutches changed but never for this reason, if you know what I mean. Still, I suspect, whatever it is will soon get worse and then I won't have choice but to have it changed.
Tony. TCB.
Tony. TCB.
ElvisWedgely said:
On my S2 I am having difficulty engaging gear unless I select second gear and then the gear I require, especially reverse.
I assume you mean when the car is stationary and you are trying to select 1st or reverse?If the gears crunch it normally means that the input shaft is turning (unless the gearbox is terminally ill), as it must when the clutch is engaged. You can often hear the input shaft rattling, which is why gearboxes normally get quieter when you depress the clutch, not noisier. If you get a bit of clutch drag when you depress the clutch, the input shaft may still be turning when you try to engage a gear. Reverse will then normally crash because it doesn't (normally) have synchromesh. On the forward gears the synchro is often strong enough to stall the input shaft, but 1st always seems to be least effective at this - I don't know why, it may be something to do with gear ratios or layout.
Clutch drag is normally due to:
(i) The obvious cause - the pressure plate not disengaging, usually due to a hydraulic fault;
(ii) The friction plate sticking on the input shaft splines. The splines SHOULD be dry, and the friction plate quite a loose fit. If you MUST lubricate them, use a dry lubricant such as graphite powder. If you use grease it will quickly attract friction material (like brake dust) and do more harm than good.
(iii) Some damage or breakage in the clutch friction plate or cover.
The spigot bearing is tiny. It would have to be more or less totally seized to transmit any amount of torque sufficient to defeat healthy synchromesh. And why would it go 'dry' during a lay-up? grease doesn't evaporate!
Hope it's nothing serious, and good luck!
Graham
Ragtop said:
When it's actually in gear, where's the bite point?
Now, this is the confusing part. The biting point of the clutch is when the pedal is pretty low, in other words the clutch engages very early as compared to what one would expect around mid way, and this points towards hydraulic/actuation problem. However, I spoke to the guy who checked it out for me and he says the hydraulic actuation of the arm is sufficient and that any further adjustment could lead to problems. On the other hand, the initial selection of second gear making general gear selection easier, points the fault towards the clutch plate or spigot bearing type of fault. Yet, there are no untoward noises.What I need to know at this moment in time is this. Hydraulic leaks/air in system aside, is the actuation arm adjustable? and to what point? before plate slipping occurs. If I can get this set correctly so that the biting point is normal, and I still have the same problem, then the fault has to lie in the clutch mechanism itself, and a replacement clutch would be the only solution. I hope what I have said makes sense, but I really would appreciate your views. Many thanks, especially to Ragtop for sharing my problems and thanks for all your advise.
Tony. TCB.
Both the master cylinder rod and the slave rod are adjustable on mine. The slave rod should also run in the second hole from the end of the actuating arm. It's common for the end to wear and jump to the outer hole. There are pictures on here somewhere and also repair instructions.
Rob
Rob
Push rod is missing in this photo...
It pushes the arm forward, it's not uncommon as Rob says for it to punch through that hole in the arm. This could loose you a lot of movement.
Normally neither master cylinder nor slave should need adjusting, as clutch wears the hydraulics take up "slack" but there is always the chance someone in the past has messed around with them
It pushes the arm forward, it's not uncommon as Rob says for it to punch through that hole in the arm. This could loose you a lot of movement.
Normally neither master cylinder nor slave should need adjusting, as clutch wears the hydraulics take up "slack" but there is always the chance someone in the past has messed around with them
Barkychoc said:
Does sound like insufficient hydraulic movement to me. Don't rule out anything for example wrong master or slave could be fitted the list goes on.
If you are not using it much rust on the flywheel could give you some clutch drag.
.If you are not using it much rust on the flywheel could give you some clutch drag.
Thats probably what my very minor problem is then, cos once you have got it to work the first time its fine. Just a little rust, must use the TVR MORE.
I am an eternal optimist..! ( or is that infernal optimist )
For what it's worth during my 3 year ownership selecting first gear on my S2 has always been a bit of a lottery.
Slave and master were replaced by previous owner and there are no leaks.
I have no clutch judder or clutch slip.
My biting point is about one third pedal travel from floor.
No noise from the gearbox and oil in box was changed last year by myself.
To select first or reverse gear more often than not I have to select second gear first then all is ok.
Plenty of people on here probably couldnt put up with this but I have just got so used to it during my ownership.
Slave and master were replaced by previous owner and there are no leaks.
I have no clutch judder or clutch slip.
My biting point is about one third pedal travel from floor.
No noise from the gearbox and oil in box was changed last year by myself.
To select first or reverse gear more often than not I have to select second gear first then all is ok.
Plenty of people on here probably couldnt put up with this but I have just got so used to it during my ownership.
swimmer27 said:
For what it's worth during my 3 year ownership selecting first gear on my S2 has always been a bit of a lottery.
Slave and master were replaced by previous owner and there are no leaks.
I have no clutch judder or clutch slip.
My biting point is about one third pedal travel from floor.
No noise from the gearbox and oil in box was changed last year by myself.
To select first or reverse gear more often than not I have to select second gear first then all is ok.
Plenty of people on here probably couldnt put up with this but I have just got so used to it during my ownership.
That sounds pretty normal to me.Slave and master were replaced by previous owner and there are no leaks.
I have no clutch judder or clutch slip.
My biting point is about one third pedal travel from floor.
No noise from the gearbox and oil in box was changed last year by myself.
To select first or reverse gear more often than not I have to select second gear first then all is ok.
Plenty of people on here probably couldnt put up with this but I have just got so used to it during my ownership.
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