Had to call the RAC today - help
Discussion
Got the Tiv out for the drive to work. Having a good blast down the road when all the power goes and I have to coast to a stop. Engine has stopped and won't restart.
The engine turns over and sometime catches but it won't run. So I call the RAC to have a look - and they turn up pretty quickly. The RAC man finds that the distributor is loose and rotates around which is not good.
He tries to manually set the distributor but can't make the engine fire up. He also checks that there is a spark at the plugs and a pulse for the injectors which all seems OK.
He pulls the petrol pipe off the regulator (first checking that the exhaust is cold
). When he pulls the pipe off I am expecting petrol to go everywhere because it should be pressurised (shouldn't it?0) but nothing. Turning on the ignition petrol starts to come out so the pump is working.
In the end he has to tow me home.
Any ideas what I should look at?
I know the timing is out but I would have thought even if it was out it would still run, albeit very roughly. I'm leaning towards a fuel problem because despite turning the enigne over and over for the best part of an hour there was no smell of petrol and the plugs looked dry (but I didn't get a good look when the RAC man pulled it out). Also the way it just cut out leans me to some sort of failure. Could the pump work but not produce enough pressure and thereby not be feeding fuel to the injectors properly?
Oh and just in case someone asks there is fuel in the tank
The engine turns over and sometime catches but it won't run. So I call the RAC to have a look - and they turn up pretty quickly. The RAC man finds that the distributor is loose and rotates around which is not good.
He tries to manually set the distributor but can't make the engine fire up. He also checks that there is a spark at the plugs and a pulse for the injectors which all seems OK.
He pulls the petrol pipe off the regulator (first checking that the exhaust is cold
). When he pulls the pipe off I am expecting petrol to go everywhere because it should be pressurised (shouldn't it?0) but nothing. Turning on the ignition petrol starts to come out so the pump is working. In the end he has to tow me home.
Any ideas what I should look at?
I know the timing is out but I would have thought even if it was out it would still run, albeit very roughly. I'm leaning towards a fuel problem because despite turning the enigne over and over for the best part of an hour there was no smell of petrol and the plugs looked dry (but I didn't get a good look when the RAC man pulled it out). Also the way it just cut out leans me to some sort of failure. Could the pump work but not produce enough pressure and thereby not be feeding fuel to the injectors properly?
Oh and just in case someone asks there is fuel in the tank
Hi Colin,
I think you have hit on it with your last question there. Sounds the same as the problem I had with mine once.
The cause is very possibly the filter inside the tank is dirty and clogging and starving the pump of fuel, this usually results in a complete pump failure as they don't like to run dry
I replaced my pump with a Bosch Part No. 580254911 last November which is a direct replacement for the standard Lucas FDB 702 and is cheaper and of superior quality (about £85 IIRC).
I don't think the filter inside the tank is easily replaced but you can drain the tank when you replace the pump and clean a fair bit out as much as possible which is all I could do when I did mine.
A pair of ramps come is really handy when replacing the pump, I struggled with axle stands!
I think you have hit on it with your last question there. Sounds the same as the problem I had with mine once.
The cause is very possibly the filter inside the tank is dirty and clogging and starving the pump of fuel, this usually results in a complete pump failure as they don't like to run dry
I replaced my pump with a Bosch Part No. 580254911 last November which is a direct replacement for the standard Lucas FDB 702 and is cheaper and of superior quality (about £85 IIRC).
I don't think the filter inside the tank is easily replaced but you can drain the tank when you replace the pump and clean a fair bit out as much as possible which is all I could do when I did mine.
A pair of ramps come is really handy when replacing the pump, I struggled with axle stands!
Thanks - where did you get the new pump from?
KentishS2 said:
Hi Colin,
A pair of ramps come is really handy when replacing the pump, I struggled with axle stands!
Good job I just bought these then
Anyone know if there's a pressure gauge or something to check the fuel pressure?
How do I get the timing reset or is that a garage job (Austec??
) once I get it running?A bit confused by this, are we saying you have a distributor (igniton) fault and a fuel fault, unlikely to be both IMHO. One is red herring as to which one is haven't got a scoobie 
. If i was to guess I would say the dizzy may have been losely fitted but working, now its been rotated it neds setting up and the fuel may be the prime cause, then agian it could just as easily be the other way around .
Hope that helps
.
Harry
. If i was to guess I would say the dizzy may have been losely fitted but working, now its been rotated it neds setting up and the fuel may be the prime cause, then agian it could just as easily be the other way around . Hope that helps
. Harry
Think I would pull the petrol pipe off again from the regulator end and turn it over (with a jar under the pipe!)
If you had a blocked filter anywhere I would have expected the engine to play up for a while with starvation before cutting out,that points perhaps back to the distributor again in my view.
Not that much petrol is going to come out the pipe on the feed side of the regulator is it? Not a jet of petrol if you don't push the pedal to the floor!
Think I would eliminate that first to close down the problem a bit more before embarking on the spending route!
If you had a blocked filter anywhere I would have expected the engine to play up for a while with starvation before cutting out,that points perhaps back to the distributor again in my view.
Not that much petrol is going to come out the pipe on the feed side of the regulator is it? Not a jet of petrol if you don't push the pedal to the floor!
Think I would eliminate that first to close down the problem a bit more before embarking on the spending route!
Mine did stop ....suddenly almost without warning.
If you switch the ignition on to prime the pump then switch off again and then slacken off the clip from the pipe before the fuel rail (after the pressure regulator) you should find that the fuel spurts out under pressure as you undo the clip.
For a better test....
Now with the pipe off, point the end of the fuel line away from anything and turn the ignition on again and the fuel should squirt a jet at least 3 to 4 feet indicating normal pressure.
Also, have you noticed any difference in the sound of the pump?
There should be a steady noise as it primes when you switch the ignition on, if it falters and hesitates it sounds like the pump may be starved of fuel. Mine sounded hesitant for weeks and must have got steadily worse until it failed.
I think you said that the RAC man has checked the ignition and found a spark and you should be able to overcome the timing being out by turning the distributor a little at a time each way until the car starts (which it will if that's the only problem). Bear in mind that most cars run with the dizzy adjusted to mid way between each end point. This may not be correct positioning to give ideal timing but the engine should run.
If you switch the ignition on to prime the pump then switch off again and then slacken off the clip from the pipe before the fuel rail (after the pressure regulator) you should find that the fuel spurts out under pressure as you undo the clip.
For a better test....
Now with the pipe off, point the end of the fuel line away from anything and turn the ignition on again and the fuel should squirt a jet at least 3 to 4 feet indicating normal pressure.
Also, have you noticed any difference in the sound of the pump?
There should be a steady noise as it primes when you switch the ignition on, if it falters and hesitates it sounds like the pump may be starved of fuel. Mine sounded hesitant for weeks and must have got steadily worse until it failed.
I think you said that the RAC man has checked the ignition and found a spark and you should be able to overcome the timing being out by turning the distributor a little at a time each way until the car starts (which it will if that's the only problem). Bear in mind that most cars run with the dizzy adjusted to mid way between each end point. This may not be correct positioning to give ideal timing but the engine should run.
I have found engines with +/- 20 deg on the optimum dizzy settings before, but this was because people set them wrong in the first place. I would not expect the timing of the car to change very much at all with the dizzy correctly secured. Timing often needs to be altered on an engine to compensate for other factors including mixture changes, timing chain stretch etc. Even then the car will run, but with reduced power etc.
It sounds more to me as if the fuel pump relay is priming the pump, but the main relay is not switching over the continuous feed. At least this is what happened with a number of V8’s (don’t know about the V6’s though, but they sound similar). What happens is the engine catches on the small amount of fuel from the priming sequence, but will not run.
For a really easy test connect a 12V power source from the battery +ve via a 15A fuse to the pump and try and start the car. If it starts change the relays, if not then as the others have mentioned.
Z
It sounds more to me as if the fuel pump relay is priming the pump, but the main relay is not switching over the continuous feed. At least this is what happened with a number of V8’s (don’t know about the V6’s though, but they sound similar). What happens is the engine catches on the small amount of fuel from the priming sequence, but will not run.
For a really easy test connect a 12V power source from the battery +ve via a 15A fuse to the pump and try and start the car. If it starts change the relays, if not then as the others have mentioned.
Z
Well I have found at least one problem.....
Just went to manually set up the timing and took the dizzy cap off to find this.
www.ofoto.co.uk/I.jsp?c=izpcso1.e2vqacx&x=0&y=-uakjmu
I have no idea how this happened, can't see any damage to the dizzy cap but I'm going to go and have another look.
Wouldn't mind too much but it's brand new only been in there about 3 weeks!
Could it be component failure or should I look for another cause?
Just went to manually set up the timing and took the dizzy cap off to find this.
www.ofoto.co.uk/I.jsp?c=izpcso1.e2vqacx&x=0&y=-uakjmu
I have no idea how this happened, can't see any damage to the dizzy cap but I'm going to go and have another look.
Wouldn't mind too much but it's brand new only been in there about 3 weeks!
Could it be component failure or should I look for another cause?I'll be picking up a new rotor arm tomorrow.
The dizzy cap wasn't loose it was the whole dizzy - someone had loosened the dizzy clamp bolt allowing the whole thing to rotate. I can only assume that it happened at the last service because I know I haven't touched it.
>> Edited by Colin Blues2 on Wednesday 27th October 21:18
The dizzy cap wasn't loose it was the whole dizzy - someone had loosened the dizzy clamp bolt allowing the whole thing to rotate. I can only assume that it happened at the last service because I know I haven't touched it.
>> Edited by Colin Blues2 on Wednesday 27th October 21:18
Hi Pies,
I didn't think the cap could move independently of the dizzy iself. Isn't it located on guides ?
I thought ColinBS2 meant that the whole dizzy was rotating.
Must agree though, it does look like it might have snagged. What if it was not pushed all the way down when installed ?
I didn't think the cap could move independently of the dizzy iself. Isn't it located on guides ?
I thought ColinBS2 meant that the whole dizzy was rotating.
Must agree though, it does look like it might have snagged. What if it was not pushed all the way down when installed ?
Colin Blues2 said:
Well I have found at least one problem.....
Just went to manually set up the timing and took the dizzy cap off to find this.
www.ofoto.co.uk/I.jsp?c=izpcso1.e2vqacx&x=0&y=-uakjmu
I have no idea how this happened, can't see any damage to the dizzy cap but I'm going to go and have another look.
Wouldn't mind too much but it's brand new only been in there about 3 weeks!
AH....... I've had a similar thing happen to me before, but it shattered into three pieces mid over taking manouver(sp?) on the A272 between bends
. I had to tuck back in again sharpish, but the car i was overtaking thought he would help by slowing too , soon got the message when I waved him out of the way . Harry
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