.....and then she wouldn't start!
Discussion
Hi All, I once again put myself into the hands of fountains of all knowledge of the V8s.
After rebuild, fettling, MOT the old V8s took to the roads again in early July. Several thousand miles including a couple of trips from Mid wales to Cornwall, and she has not missed a beat.........until Thursday that is.
An unwise splash through a puddle that was deeper than it looked swamps the Dizzy, a few minutes of evaporation, diligent use of a bit of WD magic, and we fire up and on the way. About 5 miles later going down a very long steep hill under braking, the engine simply stops, lots of frantic bump start attempts fail to get her going, and there I sit at the bottom of the hill on one of the remotest and highest mountain roads in Wales.
When we restored the fuel tank, we changed the fuel level sender, and have not really tested how low it would go. just above the red...Ah ahh you fool you have run out of fuel!!!. Simple solution, wait until someone comes past, catch a lift, arrange more fuel return to car and all will be solved... After an hour and a half, no one has come past, and for the want of anything better to do,(not only was I getting bored, but it was also getting dark) I turned the key one last time....and yep it started. I crept on for a few miles when forced into a semi emergency stop (new brake hoses and refurbed servo actually work)and the engine dies and refuses to start. Roll on another couple of hours, some more fuel, and off we go again.... for at least a couple of hundred yards. This was getting boring..... nothing to it, tucked away in a safe parking spot, my wife would pick me up and we would return with tame mechanic in the morning.
Just before we leave to come home.... one last flick of the switch and off we go again. there follows a 10 mile trip to the garage to fill up with fresh fuel, and another 15 miles home, and she misses not a beat. Problem solved, definitely must have run our of fuel.
Friday afternoon I leap into the old girl with a nonchalant air, turn the key, the engine turns with gusto...but she won't start....b888er!
Now comes the head scratching, I have the splinters to show for it. All leads are checked, Dizzy unclipped rotor arm and contacts cleaned, and they seem OK. The fuel pump ( new at rebuild) is running.
There is however nor spark. using an inline spark indicator, I do see one spark and get one cylinder to fire momentarily, but cannot repeat the performance, also when I turn the ignition off the indicator light flashes indicating power from somewhere. Might it be the coil, and the intermittent stops linked to it starting to break down when hot, and working when cold.(I had an old Austin 1300 do this some 30 years ago). I then swap out the coil and no change. This elicits a technical question from tame mechanic: does the coil have a ballast resistor, and if so where might it be. The train of my technical knowledge has now hit the buffers, and he says why not ask those nice folks on Pistonheads who were so helpful with your lack of technical knowledge before.... so there we are boys and girls....any good ideas? Thanks in advance...
After rebuild, fettling, MOT the old V8s took to the roads again in early July. Several thousand miles including a couple of trips from Mid wales to Cornwall, and she has not missed a beat.........until Thursday that is.
An unwise splash through a puddle that was deeper than it looked swamps the Dizzy, a few minutes of evaporation, diligent use of a bit of WD magic, and we fire up and on the way. About 5 miles later going down a very long steep hill under braking, the engine simply stops, lots of frantic bump start attempts fail to get her going, and there I sit at the bottom of the hill on one of the remotest and highest mountain roads in Wales.
When we restored the fuel tank, we changed the fuel level sender, and have not really tested how low it would go. just above the red...Ah ahh you fool you have run out of fuel!!!. Simple solution, wait until someone comes past, catch a lift, arrange more fuel return to car and all will be solved... After an hour and a half, no one has come past, and for the want of anything better to do,(not only was I getting bored, but it was also getting dark) I turned the key one last time....and yep it started. I crept on for a few miles when forced into a semi emergency stop (new brake hoses and refurbed servo actually work)and the engine dies and refuses to start. Roll on another couple of hours, some more fuel, and off we go again.... for at least a couple of hundred yards. This was getting boring..... nothing to it, tucked away in a safe parking spot, my wife would pick me up and we would return with tame mechanic in the morning.
Just before we leave to come home.... one last flick of the switch and off we go again. there follows a 10 mile trip to the garage to fill up with fresh fuel, and another 15 miles home, and she misses not a beat. Problem solved, definitely must have run our of fuel.
Friday afternoon I leap into the old girl with a nonchalant air, turn the key, the engine turns with gusto...but she won't start....b888er!
Now comes the head scratching, I have the splinters to show for it. All leads are checked, Dizzy unclipped rotor arm and contacts cleaned, and they seem OK. The fuel pump ( new at rebuild) is running.
There is however nor spark. using an inline spark indicator, I do see one spark and get one cylinder to fire momentarily, but cannot repeat the performance, also when I turn the ignition off the indicator light flashes indicating power from somewhere. Might it be the coil, and the intermittent stops linked to it starting to break down when hot, and working when cold.(I had an old Austin 1300 do this some 30 years ago). I then swap out the coil and no change. This elicits a technical question from tame mechanic: does the coil have a ballast resistor, and if so where might it be. The train of my technical knowledge has now hit the buffers, and he says why not ask those nice folks on Pistonheads who were so helpful with your lack of technical knowledge before.... so there we are boys and girls....any good ideas? Thanks in advance...
....I was frustrated by an intermittent problem exactly like this a while ago....obviously it was fuel, until I discovered it was the dreaded yellow connector
....if they are fitted to V8s, then this would be a simple place to start ....remove the steering cowl and see if there is a yellow connector...if there is then that will be the fault (will probably be brown and melted yellow in colour)
Apologies if this is to obvious...
....if they are fitted to V8s, then this would be a simple place to start ....remove the steering cowl and see if there is a yellow connector...if there is then that will be the fault (will probably be brown and melted yellow in colour)
Apologies if this is to obvious...
bfg1961 said:
does the coil have a ballast resistor, and if so where might it be.
Very little knowledge of the Rover V8 but a glance at the wiring diagram would suggest there isn't a ballast resistor.I think they are un-necessary with electronic ignition, had their day back with points and condensers?
I don't know of any reliable way to test the ignition amp apart from substitution. It gets very hot and could conceivably have been damaged by a sudden dunk in cold water.
If it happens again while you're out I suggest you pay attention what the rev counter is doing. If the ignition switched power supply has failed this would usually show up as the rev counter freezing. You can also measure the voltage directly at the coil +ve terminal to confirm the ignition switched supply is reaching it. If the pickup, amp or any of the LT circuit has failed (but is getting power) this would usually show up as the rev counter reading low/zero rpm. Unfortunately, when the engine is stopped these look the same but if it happens when the engine is running this can be a useful clue. If you have a small (0.5W or less) 12V test lamp available, you can connect this across the coil LT terminals to confirm that coil -ve is being pulsed low while cranking - but be careful not to let it zap you (keep hands clear while cranking).
If it happens again while you're out I suggest you pay attention what the rev counter is doing. If the ignition switched power supply has failed this would usually show up as the rev counter freezing. You can also measure the voltage directly at the coil +ve terminal to confirm the ignition switched supply is reaching it. If the pickup, amp or any of the LT circuit has failed (but is getting power) this would usually show up as the rev counter reading low/zero rpm. Unfortunately, when the engine is stopped these look the same but if it happens when the engine is running this can be a useful clue. If you have a small (0.5W or less) 12V test lamp available, you can connect this across the coil LT terminals to confirm that coil -ve is being pulsed low while cranking - but be careful not to let it zap you (keep hands clear while cranking).
Well Problem solved, and thanks to all for great input. The Ignition amplifier module was absolutely the right call. When I checked mine it had a crack in, and had clearly been breaking down for a while. An internet search revealed a number of options at different prices. I did opt however for a trip to our local independent Landrover repair and parts business. Macdonnald landrover in Oswestry, wonderful people with a great knowledge of V8 engines. They provided me with a modern replacement for £30 + VAT, very competitive with the internet. The old part is a two pin affair, the new one a three pin. It is a relatively simple job to change the old spade connectors on the wiring to smaller ones to connect to the new connector. However given the positioning of the module to the front of the DIZZY, and right in the line of fire for any crud and water that will come into the engine bay, I was concerned that waterproofing was going to be difficult. The solution is a pre made 3 to 2 pin conversion lead at a pricy £20 + Vat, but it does come with the benefit of a rubber boot providing a waterproof seal to the connector, so I opted for the expensive add on, but now have confidence in the waterproofing.
If you do fit one of these, a word of warning, for some reason on the connector I bought, the spade connections were swapped around, so initial connection elicited no spark. Once I had worked this out, then off we went with Gusto!
I suspect that the old module must not have been fully functioning for some time, as the Car seems to be running much better...actually probably as well as it has ever run, the slight over fuelling on rapid deceleration that has been giving a bit of concern even seems to be better.
I am not sure the new ignition module will have helped the left hand electric window to start working though... it hasn't worked for over a year, and suddenly yesterday it started working again...oh what a bundle of fun these cars are.
Thank you all again for your very kind help and advice.
If you do fit one of these, a word of warning, for some reason on the connector I bought, the spade connections were swapped around, so initial connection elicited no spark. Once I had worked this out, then off we went with Gusto!
I suspect that the old module must not have been fully functioning for some time, as the Car seems to be running much better...actually probably as well as it has ever run, the slight over fuelling on rapid deceleration that has been giving a bit of concern even seems to be better.
I am not sure the new ignition module will have helped the left hand electric window to start working though... it hasn't worked for over a year, and suddenly yesterday it started working again...oh what a bundle of fun these cars are.
Thank you all again for your very kind help and advice.
bfg1961 said:
Well Problem solved, and thanks to all for great input. The Ignition amplifier module was absolutely the right call.
I suspect that the old module must not have been fully functioning for some time, as the Car seems to be running much better...actually probably as well as it has ever run, the slight over fuelling on rapid deceleration that has been giving a bit of concern even seems to be better.
I am not sure the new ignition module will have helped the left hand electric window to start working though... it hasn't worked for over a year, and suddenly yesterday it started working again...oh what a bundle of fun these cars are.
Thank you all again for your very kind help and advice.
Just a thought, did all of this good karma start to happen when you gave up thoughts of turning to the Dark Side of Chimaerashipness?.I suspect that the old module must not have been fully functioning for some time, as the Car seems to be running much better...actually probably as well as it has ever run, the slight over fuelling on rapid deceleration that has been giving a bit of concern even seems to be better.
I am not sure the new ignition module will have helped the left hand electric window to start working though... it hasn't worked for over a year, and suddenly yesterday it started working again...oh what a bundle of fun these cars are.
Thank you all again for your very kind help and advice.
You see, good things happen when you keep the Faith.
S is Best !
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