S2 come up for sale
Discussion
Just seen this come up for sale. Described as a 280S (which may well be as shown on V5) but appears to be a 2.9 S2. G reg Carlisle. No engine or underside photos but interior looks very promising. Anybody know it?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TVR-280-S-S2-PX-Swap-Any...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TVR-280-S-S2-PX-Swap-Any...
XK140 said:
Two problems...
It's Cat C.
It's a dealer selling it.
1. Cat C does not mean the car should be discounted, too many TVRs have been lost to us because they have been unfairly stigmatised. It doesn't take a huge amount for insurance companies to classify as "beyond economical repair", especially when values were low as in recent years. It could just have been stolen recovered with trim damage. As long as the car has been properly repaired or restored to a high standard, there is no reason it should not be considered. Obviously a thorough check should me carried out by a competent person to ensure the chassis is straight etc.*It's Cat C.
It's a dealer selling it.
2. What is the problem with buying from a dealer? They are not all rogues! Some are genuine people trying to make an honest living. I know, I tried it myself for a few years, and it's a hard job. Plus if you buy from a dealer, you have the benefit of consumer protection law, which you do not get if you buy from an unscrupulous private seller, and believe me there are plenty of those about. Caveat emptor!!! The dealer has declared that this S2 is Cat C, he's not trying to hide it!
Each car should be judged on it's merits. And this also applies to the vendor.
This S2 looks quite nice, good colour combo, decent hood etc., pity there are no pics of engine bay or info on chassis condition.
The mileage however seems extremely low, it would be interesting to know a bit about it's history.
- I have watched priceless cars racing at Goodwood that have previously been completely demolished in a racing crash and completely rebuilt to be better than before. It's all about worth.
Edited by glenrobbo on Saturday 16th April 12:38
glenrobbo said:
XK140 said:
Two problems...
It's Cat C.
It's a dealer selling it.
1. Cat C does not mean the car should be discounted, too many TVRs have been lost to us because they have been unfairly stigmatised. It doesn't take a huge amount for insurance companies to classify as "beyond economical repair", especially when values were low as in recent years. It could just have been stolen recovered with trim damage. As long as the car has been properly repaired or restored to a high standard, there is no reason it should not be considered. Obviously a thorough check should me carried out by a competent person to ensure the chassis is straight etc.*It's Cat C.
It's a dealer selling it.
2. What is the problem with buying from a dealer? They are not all rogues! Some are genuine people trying to make an honest living. I know, I tried it myself for a few years, and it's a hard job. Plus if you buy from a dealer, you have the benefit of consumer protection law, which you do not get if you buy from an unscrupulous private seller, and believe me there are plenty of those about. Caveat emptor!!! The dealer has declared that this S2 us Cat C, he's not trying to hide it!
Each car should be judged on it's merits. And this also applies to the vendor.
This one looks quite nice, pity there are no pics of engine bay or info on chassis condition.
The mileage however seems extremely low, it would be interesting to know a bit about it's history.
- I have watched priceless cars racing at Goodwood that have previously been completely demolished in a racing crash and completely rebuilt to be better than before. It's all about worth.
Edited by glenrobbo on Saturday 16th April 12:27
From This
Mine was a Cat C but in terrible condition and looking back it should have been scrapped, however I am now enjoying the car and all that comes with TVR ownership (this is my first TVR and only ebay and beer allowed me to have it)
To this
only down side (possibly) is that is has cost about £5k in parts / paint without costing any labour
My Rover was Cat C. I put it back on the road in a weekend and had a proper ministry test done. Drove it for 2 years, sold it locally, he has had 2 more years out already without any significant costs. If the price is right then I have no qualms about cat c.
Totally agree that this S should be saved and cherished.
Totally agree that this S should be saved and cherished.
I said there were two problems,I didn't say that the problems could not be overcome.
You could say a lot about Cat C issues,but I'll just state the obvious.Naturally the car needs to be subjected to a far closer examination but to what extent?If the chassis is still bent are you going to be 100% sure of finding it?
If the Grp has been repaired the paint may look OK now but what crazing is going to emerge in the next year or so?
I'm not saying dealers are evil at all,there are some very pleasant ones about,but I don't believe this sort of car is best bought from a dealer.(... And,as an aside,the dealer should not expect any brownie points for declaring the Cat C status,to hide it would surely invalidate a sale by a trader).
If a car like this is bought from a dealer you lose the advantage of questioning the previous owner about all the aspects the car,the dealer just does not have this knowledge.The other aspect is the dealer's mark up,which on classic cars is big in percentage terms,whether the legal warranty given justifies this may or may not be the case.Just be aware that he may only have paid £2500 for this car,the owner simply not wanting to attempt a private sale because of the Cat C .....and other issues?
Personally I would leave this well alone.I bought my S3 for around £6500 in 2014 ,but due to personal issues sold it in 2015 for the roughly the same figure,both private transactions.I can say that it was a good strong car in all respects,if a little short of perfect,so excellent cars are available at very little more than this,over which many questions seem to hang.
Of course someone should acquire the car and cherish it in the future,it would just have been better if the previous owner had offered it for sale on PH privately ...it would then have changed hands at a mutually beneficial price,I
You could say a lot about Cat C issues,but I'll just state the obvious.Naturally the car needs to be subjected to a far closer examination but to what extent?If the chassis is still bent are you going to be 100% sure of finding it?
If the Grp has been repaired the paint may look OK now but what crazing is going to emerge in the next year or so?
I'm not saying dealers are evil at all,there are some very pleasant ones about,but I don't believe this sort of car is best bought from a dealer.(... And,as an aside,the dealer should not expect any brownie points for declaring the Cat C status,to hide it would surely invalidate a sale by a trader).
If a car like this is bought from a dealer you lose the advantage of questioning the previous owner about all the aspects the car,the dealer just does not have this knowledge.The other aspect is the dealer's mark up,which on classic cars is big in percentage terms,whether the legal warranty given justifies this may or may not be the case.Just be aware that he may only have paid £2500 for this car,the owner simply not wanting to attempt a private sale because of the Cat C .....and other issues?
Personally I would leave this well alone.I bought my S3 for around £6500 in 2014 ,but due to personal issues sold it in 2015 for the roughly the same figure,both private transactions.I can say that it was a good strong car in all respects,if a little short of perfect,so excellent cars are available at very little more than this,over which many questions seem to hang.
Of course someone should acquire the car and cherish it in the future,it would just have been better if the previous owner had offered it for sale on PH privately ...it would then have changed hands at a mutually beneficial price,I
Edited by XK140 on Saturday 16th April 15:15
I think that depends on your long term ambitions. If you are going to enjoy using the car for a few years and you are confident that any repairs are to standard, then it is not a problem to have such a TVR. Just think of the depreciation and perhaps, the incremental cost of finance of buying something of like a new MX5 over five years.. The cost of an S would be dwarfed by this.
My S3, J-LLO is not a cat anything, but some drives that I have had and S series friends which I have met are worth more than I have paid for the car. Sometimes these transcend the pure financial costs.
So, I agree that it is vital to vet any prospective purchase and take along an experienced owner if necessary, to ensure that you do not buy a lemon, but bear in mind the benefits of joining this unique community. Dealers are not all bad but they have to make a profit every so often!
My S3, J-LLO is not a cat anything, but some drives that I have had and S series friends which I have met are worth more than I have paid for the car. Sometimes these transcend the pure financial costs.
So, I agree that it is vital to vet any prospective purchase and take along an experienced owner if necessary, to ensure that you do not buy a lemon, but bear in mind the benefits of joining this unique community. Dealers are not all bad but they have to make a profit every so often!
glenrobbo said:
Mike,
How come the reg. mark is non-transferrable?
And who decides and why?
Two reasons:How come the reg. mark is non-transferrable?
And who decides and why?
1. If plate was a non original plate given by the DVLA;
2. If CatC/D then a VIC test may be required to establish car roadworthy and then you can apply for plate to be transferred.
Cat C worth c. third less than non Cat so is this car (history aside) a £9k car......hmmm...
I wouldn't write that one off, personally (geddit?)
It depends what kind of owner you're going to be. If you're going to be the type who buys, drives for a year or two and moves on, I'd pass on it. The Cat C marker will harm the value, and you'll only have grief when you come to sell it as your market will narrow considerably, as some people (as demonstrated on here) run for the hills with Cat # cars.
If you're the type who's buying for the long haul, and is semi-clued up when it comes to mechanics, then it could be a good buy. You could write an S off just by destroying the bonnet and smashing the windscreen. A Cat D would be preferable, as it means it was written off even though the estimated cost of repairs is LOWER than the market price of the car (which translated, means nobody could be arsed to fix it). So I wouldn't worry about the Cat marker personally, and if you take someone who knows the cars along, you should be able to determine whether it's been a cosmetic write-off, or a structural one. If it's the latter, much great caution is needed, and it's nothing like a £5k car IMO. That said, any S that hasn't ever had the body off is likely to need some chassis work by now anyway, so nothing's the end of the world. It's just about paying the right price. £5k for a Cat C S2? It's probably a bit strong, but if the chassis is solid, the paint good and the mechanics healthy, it wouldn't be crack pipe.
As for the dealer aspect, I see this on other forums. Sometimes people don't like the idea of someone else making money. Yes, the dealer probably paid less - that's how it works. Surely, if the car is right, and the price is ok.....you buy? I don't care who it comes from. I've had nearly 60 cars in my life (no I'm not a dealer), so on statistics alone I've probably bought a car from someone who watches animal porn in the past!
As mentioned already though, it's down to buyer beware.
It depends what kind of owner you're going to be. If you're going to be the type who buys, drives for a year or two and moves on, I'd pass on it. The Cat C marker will harm the value, and you'll only have grief when you come to sell it as your market will narrow considerably, as some people (as demonstrated on here) run for the hills with Cat # cars.
If you're the type who's buying for the long haul, and is semi-clued up when it comes to mechanics, then it could be a good buy. You could write an S off just by destroying the bonnet and smashing the windscreen. A Cat D would be preferable, as it means it was written off even though the estimated cost of repairs is LOWER than the market price of the car (which translated, means nobody could be arsed to fix it). So I wouldn't worry about the Cat marker personally, and if you take someone who knows the cars along, you should be able to determine whether it's been a cosmetic write-off, or a structural one. If it's the latter, much great caution is needed, and it's nothing like a £5k car IMO. That said, any S that hasn't ever had the body off is likely to need some chassis work by now anyway, so nothing's the end of the world. It's just about paying the right price. £5k for a Cat C S2? It's probably a bit strong, but if the chassis is solid, the paint good and the mechanics healthy, it wouldn't be crack pipe.
As for the dealer aspect, I see this on other forums. Sometimes people don't like the idea of someone else making money. Yes, the dealer probably paid less - that's how it works. Surely, if the car is right, and the price is ok.....you buy? I don't care who it comes from. I've had nearly 60 cars in my life (no I'm not a dealer), so on statistics alone I've probably bought a car from someone who watches animal porn in the past!
As mentioned already though, it's down to buyer beware.
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