Discussion
After the box was removed we found that the clutch bearing had separated from the plastic carrier, which was still attached to the clutch arm.
Also, half of the sprung teeth on the inner part of the bearing were missing, they yellow area shows where teeth are still present, all the others are gone.
Would this have been the cause of the juddering, especially when in stop/start traffic?
Going to get the flywheel checked for high spots and skimmed if required; there are a couple of scratches on the face.
Also, half of the sprung teeth on the inner part of the bearing were missing, they yellow area shows where teeth are still present, all the others are gone.
Would this have been the cause of the juddering, especially when in stop/start traffic?
Going to get the flywheel checked for high spots and skimmed if required; there are a couple of scratches on the face.
Just a few thoughts now you can see the damage.
\What we dont know is if the breakup of the thrust bearing caused the damage or was caused by the vibration. I suspect the former.
If lubricant from the bearing got onto the clutch it would almost certainly cause judder, the general colour of the flywheel does suggest contamination.
Once the judder started the breakdown of the bearing would be pretty quick. The bearing components break out and centrifugal forces mean the pieces go out sideways, with the rest of the lubricant. I suspect the marks on the flywheel are indents made by the parts. I would expect the clutch friction plate to show more evidence, I would have expected some bit to bed into the material. There should also be some damaged bits of bearing inside the bell housing, probably held in my remnants of the lubricant adhered to the bell housing.
However the breakup could have been caused by the judder. A rare cause of judder is a badly supported gearbox shaft where either the bearing in the gearbox is in poor condition or more likely the spigot or pilot bush in the crankshaft is a poor fit (or even missing!) I believe, although I have no personal experience, that bush does occasionally give problems. You must check it and, as the judder has been really bad, I would be inclined to change it as the gearbox shaft must have been vibrating in the bush and may well have damaged it.
\What we dont know is if the breakup of the thrust bearing caused the damage or was caused by the vibration. I suspect the former.
If lubricant from the bearing got onto the clutch it would almost certainly cause judder, the general colour of the flywheel does suggest contamination.
Once the judder started the breakdown of the bearing would be pretty quick. The bearing components break out and centrifugal forces mean the pieces go out sideways, with the rest of the lubricant. I suspect the marks on the flywheel are indents made by the parts. I would expect the clutch friction plate to show more evidence, I would have expected some bit to bed into the material. There should also be some damaged bits of bearing inside the bell housing, probably held in my remnants of the lubricant adhered to the bell housing.
However the breakup could have been caused by the judder. A rare cause of judder is a badly supported gearbox shaft where either the bearing in the gearbox is in poor condition or more likely the spigot or pilot bush in the crankshaft is a poor fit (or even missing!) I believe, although I have no personal experience, that bush does occasionally give problems. You must check it and, as the judder has been really bad, I would be inclined to change it as the gearbox shaft must have been vibrating in the bush and may well have damaged it.
Kitchski said:
The judder would most likely have been the face of the flywheel being glazed from years and years of use. It might have killed the bearing, though I've seen bearings die in a similar way when people use the clutch pedal as a footrest.
Doesn't the marking on the flywheel look odd to you though? The dark spots don't look like the usual glazing to me they look more like deposits, and I cant see the heat discolouration of the metal. Those 'scratches' do look like marks from 'foreign bodies' pressed in?Kitchski said:
I've seen bearings die in a similar way when people use the clutch pedal as a footrest.
Any advice as to what else to use as a left footrest in an 'S'? Not bragging, but I have a 34" inside leg. I always try not to 'ride' the clutch, but I don't have anywhere else to go.mentall said:
Any advice as to what else to use as a left footrest in an 'S'? Not bragging, but I have a 34" inside leg. I always try not to 'ride' the clutch, but I don't have anywhere else to go.
I'm a similar build. Not all pedal boxes are the same so this might not work for you, but I can turn my left foot slightly and reach it under the pedal so that it rests in the space behind the pedal. After a hundred and fifty thousand miles of practice, this happens without me being aware of it.
mentall said:
Kitchski said:
I've seen bearings die in a similar way when people use the clutch pedal as a footrest.
Any advice as to what else to use as a left footrest in an 'S'? Not bragging, but I have a 34" inside leg. I always try not to 'ride' the clutch, but I don't have anywhere else to go.
Don't think there's any need for pages of in depth analysis here as to which caused what......that's been "cooked", plain and simple!
Now it's all apart I'd change the spigot bearing to be on the safe side, they're not expensive.
Bit of searching should throw up some advice on a simple and cheap (that's the bit I like) removal tool...
Now it's all apart I'd change the spigot bearing to be on the safe side, they're not expensive.
Bit of searching should throw up some advice on a simple and cheap (that's the bit I like) removal tool...
greymrj said:
Kitchski said:
The judder would most likely have been the face of the flywheel being glazed from years and years of use. It might have killed the bearing, though I've seen bearings die in a similar way when people use the clutch pedal as a footrest.
Doesn't the marking on the flywheel look odd to you though? The dark spots don't look like the usual glazing to me they look more like deposits, and I cant see the heat discolouration of the metal. Those 'scratches' do look like marks from 'foreign bodies' pressed in?
mentall said:
Any advice as to what else to use as a left footrest in an 'S'? Not bragging, but I have a 34" inside leg. I always try not to 'ride' the clutch, but I don't have anywhere else to go.
Having a 34" inside leg is nothing to brag about if you want to drive quirky old British sports cars! I can't give you the answer, but you just put it anywhere else unless you want to munch release bearings.Edited by Kitchski on Monday 6th November 10:03
Interesting reading through this thread as I too have clutch judder with my S3 however strangely only when the car is properly warmed up. Lots of judder in first or reverse but fine pulling off in second with no clutch slip at all, once car cooled down she's smooth again, very very odd.
I thought could get lucky and just be soft engine mounts maybe becoming softer when engine warm as never been changed before but problem still there after renewing them so clutch out I guess.
I thought could get lucky and just be soft engine mounts maybe becoming softer when engine warm as never been changed before but problem still there after renewing them so clutch out I guess.
I've had the car almost 9 years and can honestly say that I'm not a 'pedal rester' or someone who races away at high revs(all the time).
The problem started to appear about three years ago and got progressively worse; I tried the replacement of engine and gearbox mounts(which led to all rear bushes being replaced along with diff' mounts and bearings. Once you start.....)
I should have done the clutch at the time but remember a new one had been fitted just before I bought the car(20k miles ago) and assumed it would be ok.
I guess whatever caused the problem, the the degredation has been exponential, leading to where I am now.
Gearbox oil seals to be replaced and may do the rear crankshaft seal if I feel brave. There's no sign of a problematic leak, but as it's all out in the open and I have replacements to hand.....
Hopeful that a local firm have been successful making up a braided clutch hose - I'll post details if they have.
Thanks again for everyone's help/opinion,
Steve
The problem started to appear about three years ago and got progressively worse; I tried the replacement of engine and gearbox mounts(which led to all rear bushes being replaced along with diff' mounts and bearings. Once you start.....)
I should have done the clutch at the time but remember a new one had been fitted just before I bought the car(20k miles ago) and assumed it would be ok.
I guess whatever caused the problem, the the degredation has been exponential, leading to where I am now.
Gearbox oil seals to be replaced and may do the rear crankshaft seal if I feel brave. There's no sign of a problematic leak, but as it's all out in the open and I have replacements to hand.....
Hopeful that a local firm have been successful making up a braided clutch hose - I'll post details if they have.
Thanks again for everyone's help/opinion,
Steve
Sorry if this is boringly non-DIY, but this feels to me like an appropriate time to take the car to either a TVR expert, or to a classic Ford expert (I am assuming it is a Ford gearbox/clutch assembly?), who will know immediately what has happened and be able to put it right. Just saying.....
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