non starter.... Sorry..
Discussion
Hello,
I could use your help gentleman. After a drive sunday (great weather), the S won't start. There is power. Lights, dash etc. works. But there's no action from the starter motor/pre-engager. I pushed / bump started it and it ran...
I checked the multi-connector.. appears to be fine.
I hit the pre-engager in case it was sticky.. still nothing.
Bad earth on the starter?
Cheers
Niels
S1
Netherlands
I could use your help gentleman. After a drive sunday (great weather), the S won't start. There is power. Lights, dash etc. works. But there's no action from the starter motor/pre-engager. I pushed / bump started it and it ran...
I checked the multi-connector.. appears to be fine.
I hit the pre-engager in case it was sticky.. still nothing.
Bad earth on the starter?
Cheers
Niels
S1
Netherlands
Quick way to test the earth connection at the starter is to use a 'jump-lead'.
Connect one end to the engine near the starter (one of the bolts would be ideal).
Connect other end to -ve battery connection - either at battery or other end of the battery earth strap.
If the earth connection was poor before, the jump-lead should give a good enough one to allow the starter to work.
If it still isn't working - sounds like relay or sticking actuator in the starter solenoid.
Good luck!
Connect one end to the engine near the starter (one of the bolts would be ideal).
Connect other end to -ve battery connection - either at battery or other end of the battery earth strap.
If the earth connection was poor before, the jump-lead should give a good enough one to allow the starter to work.
If it still isn't working - sounds like relay or sticking actuator in the starter solenoid.
Good luck!
I think you're right. I've had problems with the relay (pre-engager sticking, and replaced it last year.
As for the wiring. I've checked the obvious connector block, which had allready melted before. I think the connector isn't the problem now.
I'll have a go at the -/- feed to the starter. if this doesn't work, I'll focus on the wiring.
thanks
Niels
As for the wiring. I've checked the obvious connector block, which had allready melted before. I think the connector isn't the problem now.
I'll have a go at the -/- feed to the starter. if this doesn't work, I'll focus on the wiring.
thanks
Niels
Ah haaaaaaaaaa. I had a very similar problem last week. I messed around with everything I could think of and still no joy and then from no where came these words of wisdom. 'Have you checked the charge in the battery?' It appeared that the battery was ok as I had power - dash lights on, fuel pump wirring etc, but insufficient power to even make the starter budge. As soon as I bunged a jump battery on it off it went. Turned out that the battery was knackered and wasnt accepting a charge. New one installed and now I am off and running again.
Peter
Peter
LeTVR is right - as far as I know there is no separate starter relay in the fuse box.
I have also noticed that my car either starts easy, or there is absolutely nothing - the battery has enough power to turn the starter at normal speed, or it doesn't turn it at all - there is none of the usual slow cranking that you usually get when you try to start a car with a flattish battery - on mine it either works normally, or it's totally dead - then it starts first time with a jump start.
I noticed this when I was moving the car about, a few weeks ago, and trying not to make too much noise, so I didn't give it the 2000 revs till the ignition light goes out - after shunting about a bit on tickover, I stalled because the engine was still cold and it was totally dead when I tried to restart. It took me a minute or two to realise that was all that was wrong, after I had fiddled with various connectors etc... so it seems that the transition from "fine" to "dead as a dodo" is not very big!
I have also noticed that my car either starts easy, or there is absolutely nothing - the battery has enough power to turn the starter at normal speed, or it doesn't turn it at all - there is none of the usual slow cranking that you usually get when you try to start a car with a flattish battery - on mine it either works normally, or it's totally dead - then it starts first time with a jump start.
I noticed this when I was moving the car about, a few weeks ago, and trying not to make too much noise, so I didn't give it the 2000 revs till the ignition light goes out - after shunting about a bit on tickover, I stalled because the engine was still cold and it was totally dead when I tried to restart. It took me a minute or two to realise that was all that was wrong, after I had fiddled with various connectors etc... so it seems that the transition from "fine" to "dead as a dodo" is not very big!
[quote=niels]could the battery be knackered then? [quote]
could be that the battery isn't holding a charge - you would have to drive a bit, check the voltage, leave it say overnight and see if it's lost a substantial charge.
or it could be that the charging system isn't working properly - you would be able to tell by checking the voltage across the battery with engine running / engine off.
or possibly the starter solenoid sticking (ie there isn't enough power to throw the seloneoid forward and make starter contact) - again you could check for "voltage drop" from the battery
or possibly the main battery feed has a loose or dirty connector - again check for "voltage drop" or ohms resistance
or possibly one of the earth straps has a loose or dirty connector (there are two earths - one from the engine to chassis, one from the chassis to the battery)
could be that the battery isn't holding a charge - you would have to drive a bit, check the voltage, leave it say overnight and see if it's lost a substantial charge.
or it could be that the charging system isn't working properly - you would be able to tell by checking the voltage across the battery with engine running / engine off.
or possibly the starter solenoid sticking (ie there isn't enough power to throw the seloneoid forward and make starter contact) - again you could check for "voltage drop" from the battery
or possibly the main battery feed has a loose or dirty connector - again check for "voltage drop" or ohms resistance
or possibly one of the earth straps has a loose or dirty connector (there are two earths - one from the engine to chassis, one from the chassis to the battery)
Niels.
To check the battery get a multimeter and check that you have 12.2 volts at least across its positive/negative terminals now with the meter connected crank the engine, if the voltage drops and the car dosent start then the battery may well be u/s (excluding siezed starter) engine ok though as yours bump starts.
To check the earth connect the multimeter from battery positive to a good earth point on the engine and check the voltage is the same as that across the battery. Crank the engine and check for voltage drop again, you should get the same result as you did across the battery if the earth is ok.
Then go to the large wire from the battery to the starter and repeat the privious tests. Now go to the small wire on the starter and crank the engine. With the wire unplugged you should get battery voltage at the terminal on the wire. If you do and the connection is good then the starter/soleniod is u/s. You can also go to the other large connection on the starter and with the small wire plugged back in you can see if you get battery voltage there when you crank the car. If you do then the fault is in the starter motor rather that the solenoid. But they come as a unit so that's just for personal info realy.
Hope that helps a bit Mick.
To check the battery get a multimeter and check that you have 12.2 volts at least across its positive/negative terminals now with the meter connected crank the engine, if the voltage drops and the car dosent start then the battery may well be u/s (excluding siezed starter) engine ok though as yours bump starts.
To check the earth connect the multimeter from battery positive to a good earth point on the engine and check the voltage is the same as that across the battery. Crank the engine and check for voltage drop again, you should get the same result as you did across the battery if the earth is ok.
Then go to the large wire from the battery to the starter and repeat the privious tests. Now go to the small wire on the starter and crank the engine. With the wire unplugged you should get battery voltage at the terminal on the wire. If you do and the connection is good then the starter/soleniod is u/s. You can also go to the other large connection on the starter and with the small wire plugged back in you can see if you get battery voltage there when you crank the car. If you do then the fault is in the starter motor rather that the solenoid. But they come as a unit so that's just for personal info realy.
Hope that helps a bit Mick.
niels said:
Before the starting problems, I had driven it for about half an hour, so the battery should have been charged...
could the battery be knackered then?
All other electrics (fan, lights, feul pump etc.) worked ok.
could the battery be knackered then?
All other electrics (fan, lights, feul pump etc.) worked ok.
Yes batteries can just die. I had one that exhibited no problems whatsoever, I stopped the car, returned 5 mins later and it had just died, had this happen twice.
thanks for all the feedback guys!
I haven't done anything with the S untill this evening. So I haven't had the chance to try all options. But what I did, is I put a -/- wire from the battery to the engine, close to the starter.. NOthing. Then I hooked the battery up to my other car to rule out a busted battery.. still nothing.
I haven't done anything with the S untill this evening. So I haven't had the chance to try all options. But what I did, is I put a -/- wire from the battery to the engine, close to the starter.. NOthing. Then I hooked the battery up to my other car to rule out a busted battery.. still nothing.
tvrgit said:
PS - just a thought
Are you absolutely sure that the wiring on the steering column is ok, after you disturbed it a week or two ago?
Are you absolutely sure that the wiring on the steering column is ok, after you disturbed it a week or two ago?
Good point... the left indicators still aren't working.
First thing I checked when it didn;t start , was the wiring. I checked the connector block.. and it seemed ok (and otherwise I think some other electrics would be dead too, which they weren't.)
Funny thing is, it ran/started ok at first. then after a break, it wouldn't start again....
But I think my next move will be to check the wiring again. Can someone tell me which wires to focus on ?
Cheers again!
Niels
Looking at the evidence so far I'd go with wiring or starter relay.
You say that lights, dash etc were all OK. Does this include when you try the starter? If they are not going dim or out then the volts from the start position of the ignition switch are not getting to the starter and the battery is not the problem.
This one only goes to the starter relay which is part of the starter motor. Loose this connection and you have all the described symptoms.
You say that lights, dash etc were all OK. Does this include when you try the starter? If they are not going dim or out then the volts from the start position of the ignition switch are not getting to the starter and the battery is not the problem.
Le TVR said:
Should be the white/red wire from the ignition switch (that arrives at the engine as a black/red wire)
This one only goes to the starter relay which is part of the starter motor. Loose this connection and you have all the described symptoms.
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