Removing the near side head
Discussion
Just got my S3 back on the road and after a good weekend blasting around the countryside it has started making a annoying ticking noise.
Further inspection this evening has revealed that the manifold gasket on the near side is leaking.
Looking at the condition of the nuts its almost guaranteed that a few of them are going to break off, so it looks like my best bet is going to be to remove the head so that I can work on it on a bench.
Therefore I would like to know if anyone as done this before and any recommendations on the best way to go about it. Also does anyone know of any people / company's in the Southampton area that would be able to drill out and tap any bolts that do break off ..
I'm also thinking I need to get a haynes manual for the S3 engine any recommendations on the best one to get..
Thanks in advance ..
Trev.
Further inspection this evening has revealed that the manifold gasket on the near side is leaking.
Looking at the condition of the nuts its almost guaranteed that a few of them are going to break off, so it looks like my best bet is going to be to remove the head so that I can work on it on a bench.
Therefore I would like to know if anyone as done this before and any recommendations on the best way to go about it. Also does anyone know of any people / company's in the Southampton area that would be able to drill out and tap any bolts that do break off ..
I'm also thinking I need to get a haynes manual for the S3 engine any recommendations on the best one to get..
Thanks in advance ..
Trev.
Hi Trev
Don't remove the head yet. I would at least get the manifold off first, you never know you might be lucky.
First thing to do is soak all the nuts with copious amounts of WD 40 and leave it overnight. Next day spray them again before you start. Another good trick is to warm the engine up first, obviously not so hot that you can't touch it! If some of the nuts are solid it may be that the stud will undo from the head, this is no problem as you just refit it like a bolt (making sure it goes back in the same hole). If after all this a stud breaks you'll have to take the head off so you will have lost nothing.
Good luck and post how you get on.
As for the Haynes manual I use the Ford Sierra 2.3, 2.8 & 2.9 V6 models, inc. 4WD 1982 to 1991 for my 1989 S2. It has a supplement in the back covering the 2.9 engine (specs., torques etc.).
Hope this is helpful, Cheers
Ian
Don't remove the head yet. I would at least get the manifold off first, you never know you might be lucky.
First thing to do is soak all the nuts with copious amounts of WD 40 and leave it overnight. Next day spray them again before you start. Another good trick is to warm the engine up first, obviously not so hot that you can't touch it! If some of the nuts are solid it may be that the stud will undo from the head, this is no problem as you just refit it like a bolt (making sure it goes back in the same hole). If after all this a stud breaks you'll have to take the head off so you will have lost nothing.
Good luck and post how you get on.
As for the Haynes manual I use the Ford Sierra 2.3, 2.8 & 2.9 V6 models, inc. 4WD 1982 to 1991 for my 1989 S2. It has a supplement in the back covering the 2.9 engine (specs., torques etc.).
Hope this is helpful, Cheers
Ian
Did this when I had my S, I replaced the manifolds and down pipes as the old ones were getting very thin in places, I managed to snap 3 bolts on each side. I sent the heads to Ferriday engineering who got the bolts out, replaced the core plugs and guides, cut 3 angle valve seats into the head plus a skim. It cost around £240 for the pair that was them collected and delivered back. On set-up afterward the car made over 180bhp at san speeds rolling road in bexleyheath. Well worth the money if you have to take the heads off.
well after applying copious amounts of WD40 heating everything up and applying even more WD40, I started with the top three bolts.
I managed to get the first bolt out without any problems. Moving on to the next bolt I got it 3/4 of the way out before it broke. On the next one I got about 1 turn on it then it broke !.
I then moved onto the three bolts under the manifold, I got the first one out, but I could not find a way to get a socket or ring spanner cleanly on the other two nuts. I even modified the ring spanner on the grinder to try and get it on the bolts but it just does not fit right and I'm pretty sure if I start trying to undo the bolt the spanner is just going to slip off and then I can then see me smashing my knuckles and removing big chunks of skin !!..
In the end I gave up and went down the local pub for a few beers !!.., which as it happened was quite handy as a local mechanic was there so I asked him for some recommendations. He reckons it would only take a 4-5 hours to take the head off, sort out the broken bolts and then put it all back together again...
So I think its back to plan A, take the head off and go from there .... !!
I managed to get the first bolt out without any problems. Moving on to the next bolt I got it 3/4 of the way out before it broke. On the next one I got about 1 turn on it then it broke !.
I then moved onto the three bolts under the manifold, I got the first one out, but I could not find a way to get a socket or ring spanner cleanly on the other two nuts. I even modified the ring spanner on the grinder to try and get it on the bolts but it just does not fit right and I'm pretty sure if I start trying to undo the bolt the spanner is just going to slip off and then I can then see me smashing my knuckles and removing big chunks of skin !!..
In the end I gave up and went down the local pub for a few beers !!.., which as it happened was quite handy as a local mechanic was there so I asked him for some recommendations. He reckons it would only take a 4-5 hours to take the head off, sort out the broken bolts and then put it all back together again...
So I think its back to plan A, take the head off and go from there .... !!
The head is off !!! 
Just got two bolts that sheared of flush with the head to be removed. I have spoken to my local ford garage and they are going to drill them out and tap them for me next week..
However I have found a much bigger problem which may put my S off the road for a lot longer
.
when I started on the head I needed to move the air pipe (the pipe that goes from the front of the car to a air vent inside the car) basically to make some room to get the head out. The pipe was cable tied all the way along the chassis. Once I moved the pipe out of the way, I noticed that something did not seem quite right with the chassis. Sure enough after tapping it with a screw driver I came across a nice patch of filler, which was filling a nice hole in the chassis.
As you can imagine I'm not to impressed with which ever previous owner did this... anyway ...
(I have hopefully managed to post a couple of pictures of the offending hole and its location)
The hole !
So the question has to be, how on earth do I get this fixed ?...
Unfortunately for me I do not know the first thing about welding on cars and I was planning on taking it somewhere to have the outriggers done after I have removed the body, which I was planning to do towards the end of the year (this then gives me the summer to enjoy the car !!).
My outriggers are not really bad enough to stop me driving the car however I think this hole might be.
any recommendations please .......
Just got two bolts that sheared of flush with the head to be removed. I have spoken to my local ford garage and they are going to drill them out and tap them for me next week..
However I have found a much bigger problem which may put my S off the road for a lot longer
. when I started on the head I needed to move the air pipe (the pipe that goes from the front of the car to a air vent inside the car) basically to make some room to get the head out. The pipe was cable tied all the way along the chassis. Once I moved the pipe out of the way, I noticed that something did not seem quite right with the chassis. Sure enough after tapping it with a screw driver I came across a nice patch of filler, which was filling a nice hole in the chassis.
As you can imagine I'm not to impressed with which ever previous owner did this... anyway ...
(I have hopefully managed to post a couple of pictures of the offending hole and its location)
The hole !
So the question has to be, how on earth do I get this fixed ?...
Unfortunately for me I do not know the first thing about welding on cars and I was planning on taking it somewhere to have the outriggers done after I have removed the body, which I was planning to do towards the end of the year (this then gives me the summer to enjoy the car !!).
My outriggers are not really bad enough to stop me driving the car however I think this hole might be.
any recommendations please .......
Probably only three options with this, Trevor.
1. Take the car off the road and get the chassis sorted.
2. Hope to find a poor condition S with a better chassis going cheap (ie. cheaper than the repair work) and swap them around.
3. Take a flyer through summer and pray it holds up.
I'm not 100% sure that the damage is easily, if at all, repairable though. Swapping the chassis will also mean time off the road, so again you would want to wait until winter.
I would recommend that you get it properly assessed to see if a repair is possible, if it isn't then consider option 2. I would say don't take option 3 under any circumstances, but then it's not my call. The repairs may not take as long as you think and you may not miss much summer. Option 3 may result in you missing a whole lot more, if you know what I mean.
If you really must take a flyer, then I would suggest that you repack the hole with something like "metal set"(?). It's a filler that sets hard like metal and will give buy you a bit of extra strenghth in that pipe section until winter.
Sorry
Andy
1. Take the car off the road and get the chassis sorted.
2. Hope to find a poor condition S with a better chassis going cheap (ie. cheaper than the repair work) and swap them around.
3. Take a flyer through summer and pray it holds up.
I'm not 100% sure that the damage is easily, if at all, repairable though. Swapping the chassis will also mean time off the road, so again you would want to wait until winter.
I would recommend that you get it properly assessed to see if a repair is possible, if it isn't then consider option 2. I would say don't take option 3 under any circumstances, but then it's not my call. The repairs may not take as long as you think and you may not miss much summer. Option 3 may result in you missing a whole lot more, if you know what I mean.
If you really must take a flyer, then I would suggest that you repack the hole with something like "metal set"(?). It's a filler that sets hard like metal and will give buy you a bit of extra strenghth in that pipe section until winter.
Sorry
Andy
Cheers Andy,
As my S3 is purely a weekend car I can afford for it to be off the road and being that the problem appears to be quite major I'm not going to take any chances by driving it.
However having only just bought it and spending a lot of time on it working on the underneath, servicing it, replacing the trailing arm etc etc .. I don't want it off the road for to long !!!
So I have spoken with a couple of local welders this morning and they reckon it should be repairable, I have also spoken to a friend of a friend that used to be a TVR race mechanic and he also thinks its not that difficult to fix. (one idea seems to be welding a bigger pipe over the top of it, to the areas which are not rusty !!..) I have no idea whether this will work or not but at the moment its sounding promising that I will be able to get my S3 back safely on the road for the summer. Then when I take the body off over the winter I can assess the whole chassis situation and at that point and I may well look to finding a chassis in better condition than mine and doing a rather large transplant then. (I have also phoned my local TVR garage to find out whether it is possible to get hold of a new chassis !!).
Trev
As my S3 is purely a weekend car I can afford for it to be off the road and being that the problem appears to be quite major I'm not going to take any chances by driving it.
However having only just bought it and spending a lot of time on it working on the underneath, servicing it, replacing the trailing arm etc etc .. I don't want it off the road for to long !!!
So I have spoken with a couple of local welders this morning and they reckon it should be repairable, I have also spoken to a friend of a friend that used to be a TVR race mechanic and he also thinks its not that difficult to fix. (one idea seems to be welding a bigger pipe over the top of it, to the areas which are not rusty !!..) I have no idea whether this will work or not but at the moment its sounding promising that I will be able to get my S3 back safely on the road for the summer. Then when I take the body off over the winter I can assess the whole chassis situation and at that point and I may well look to finding a chassis in better condition than mine and doing a rather large transplant then. (I have also phoned my local TVR garage to find out whether it is possible to get hold of a new chassis !!).
Trev
Capping the pipe with a new section would be the only realistic repair, but in the photo it appeared to look like a 3" long dent as well as the hole (possibly the engine was dropped on it at some point?). I thought this may have already affected the geometry on that side to some extent, which is why I felt the repair may be more involved than just welding. Hopefully there is enough metal left to get a good weld near the top mount too.
Fingers crossed for you.
Andy
Fingers crossed for you.
Andy
shnozz said:
IIRC the cost is in the region of £3k.
Just had the local TVR garage on the phone .. Its going to cost £1945 plus VAT for a complete new chassis. (4-6 weeks for delivery).
So hopefully I can get it patched up for the summer then get a new chassis and fit it over the winter months. (plus this why it gives me a 6 months to save up !!!!)
Trev,
I have just bought a super S3 that has had a catD repair in just the exact same area, some 7 years ago. The file that was passed on with the car has a photo record of the superb rebuild that was carried out (with body in place). I will e-mail one of the pics to show you what was acheived.
I have just bought a super S3 that has had a catD repair in just the exact same area, some 7 years ago. The file that was passed on with the car has a photo record of the superb rebuild that was carried out (with body in place). I will e-mail one of the pics to show you what was acheived.
trevytrev said:
shnozz said:
IIRC the cost is in the region of £3k.
Just had the local TVR garage on the phone .. Its going to cost £1945 plus VAT for a complete new chassis. (4-6 weeks for delivery).
I've heard that price a few times and have wondered why more people haven't gone the 'lets just replace the whole chassis' route. If you've got the body off its got to be better than making good the old one and if you intend to keep the car it's probably the way to go. Keep us informed if you do go down that road over the winter.
Harry
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