Trailing arm bush blues

[Barkychoc]

Been amongst other things fitting new shocks to the V8S (and to be honest old ones didn't feel too bad just drawing the piston up and down).

• Edited to say now I've examined them properly they have well had it

Thought I'd give it a full check over anyway as something has been feeling amiss particularly on bends, I've dicovered a bush gone on the drivers side trailing arm, the outboard one (no wonder it felt a bit hairy then!)

First question - do I have to get this from TVR carparts ?
I'm a bit miffed that they charge £9 for next day delivery then add the VAT, so a £22.50 bush becomes £37.

Secondly - can this be done on the car? If you say no I may just make it my mission to prove you wrong !
I really don't want to be undoing hub nuts, brakes etc. to do this.

For now I'm planning to fit the standard rubber variety as I don't want to have to swap them all, after all the sun is shining !

Any wisdom appreciated

Chris

Edited by Barkychoc on Thursday 2nd August 23:15

[pies]

Adrian Venn at exactly TVR might be able to suppy you with a bush,as that arm will be coming of.

Read here

http://www.haggishead.myby.co.uk/TVR/swingarm.html

[tvrgit]

pies said:

Adrian Venn at exactly TVR might be able to suppy you with a bush,as that arm will be coming of.

Read here

http://www.haggishead.myby.co.uk/TVR/swingarm.html

Thanks pies - see also my web diary for April 10 (click "home" at the bottom of that page above then "diary index" in the menu that appears) for details of how to struggle to get the bush out of the arm. I would suggest that trying to do that under the car, and press the new bush in, would be extremely difficult.

Adrian was telling me at that time that the price he pays for those bushes has gone up dramatically - he might want to hang on to those he has!

Edited by tvrgit on Tuesday 31st July 18:31

[Adrian@]

tvrgit said:

pies said:

Adrian Venn at exactly TVR might be able to suppy you with a bush,as that arm will be coming of.

Adrian was telling me at that time that the price he pays for those bushes has gone up dramatically - he might want to hang on to those he has!

Edited by tvrgit on Tuesday 31st July 18:31

I read the OP and thought..... keep your mouth shut Adrian, you will need yours for the swing arm rebuilds.
Adrian@

edited to say...a sale is a sale and when they are gone they are gone....

IMHO it is not possible to do these on the car ...prove me wrong, but the damned things refuse to come out (you might just do the drill around the edge and saw the outer sleeve) but even with the special press tool (internal bore/stepped sleeve/under-sieze OD) I use to put them back in, I can bugger up 1 in 10.

Edited by Adrian@ on Tuesday 31st July 19:25

[Jed-S]

Just one thing - have you partly removed the trailing arm to check the bush and not just assumed that it is the bush??? Only reason I say that is because the inner mounting bracket on the outboard bush is prone to corrosion. It is a mud trap and it isn't unknown for that bracket to rot away....and it doesn't stop there unfortunately.

Hopefully it is the bush but I don't think you'll have much luck doing it on the car. My bush had to be pressed in with a 10 tonne press.

[spludge]

Can't imagine how you'd do it without taking the arm off the car. You don't need to undo the hub though, I undid the CV joints to get mine off which is easy enough (once you have the correct torx bit!). Then disconnect the shock, handbrake cable and the brake line and hose at the flex hose end which seems to be the minimum required to get the arm out.

If the bush has failed, with luck the inner will fall out. If not, and remembering the struggles tvrgit had, I reckon a coping saw might prove useful for cutting round the rubber.

K

[tvrgit]

spludge said:

Can't imagine how you'd do it without taking the arm off the car. You don't need to undo the hub though, I undid the CV joints to get mine off which is easy enough (once you have the correct torx bit!). Then disconnect the shock, handbrake cable and the brake line and hose at the flex hose end which seems to be the minimum required to get the arm out.

If the bush has failed, with luck the inner will fall out. If not, and remembering the struggles tvrgit had, I reckon a coping saw might prove useful for cutting round the rubber.

K

I don't think a coping saw would cope

[Barkychoc]

I can see this is going to be fun.

I had an image in my mind of disconnecting the CV joint & leaving the hub assembled, does it just unbolt ?
I was thinking I'd have to undo the CV gaiter & delve amongst the grease to release the circlip - but it doesn't sound as messy as that.
Brake lines & handbrake were a given (joy of joys I love messing with brakes(not))
If I'm going to go this far then I reckon I may as well get some poly bushes in there if I can source some at a reasonable price and do both sides.

I do need to give the trailing arms a very close inspection as the nearside one is looking very rusty externally, though attacking it today vigourously with a file and screwdriver so far has failed to produce any holes......

I guess with regard to the comments re the inner of the bush mounting rotting I'll just have to pray......

Just when I'm getting earache for spending too much time in the garage too !

Chris

[spludge]

The CV joint just unbolts at the hub, the joint and gaiter etc remain on the driveshaft retained by the circlip. Lots of good advice I found very helpful here:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&t=358847 

[Barkychoc]

Thanks Ken - some useful pointers there.
I'll probably get the arm off later today then I'll get my camera out & post on here.

Chris

[Barkychoc]

Just a thought - if I went polyurethane assuming I can get some do they fit more easily - aren't they in 2 halves from each side ?
I know I'd then have to do both sides but this has been on my wish list anyway.

Chris

[Mr Plow]

I'm pretty sure you can't get poly bushes for the rear?

If you prove me wrong, I would be grateful if you could let me know where you get them from?

[Adrian@]

I have never seen swing arm bushes in poly (I looked recently as the intial cost of the std. bushes was silly) I did find a diff mounting bush for the S but nothing else.
I will add that MOST of the TVR swing arm bushes I have seen are in 2 parts pressed in from both sides anyway, (I think that is because of the thin wall thickness of the outer tubing) that is why I had a bespoke press tool made up that follow the profiles of the bush.
Adrian@

[Barkychoc]

Adrian, what sort of diameter are the bushes, is the swing arm effectively double skinned ie a tube welded within the outer hollow housing if this makes sense.

From previous comments am I correct it may not be the bush but the internal tube that has rotted away allowing the bush to move ?

Going to venture out shortly to try and get a brake pipe clamp to minimise fluid loss, brakes are my least favourite pastime on any car, and you always end up cover in muck.

Plan is to finish the job I started first - new shocks - well 3 of them anyway, then get the arm off to survey the damage.

Chris

[Adrian@]

Barkychoc said:

Adrian, what sort of diameter are the bushes, is the swing arm effectively double skinned ie a tube welded within the outer hollow housing if this makes sense.
Chris

Hi Chris
No that does not make sense...have a look-see with the wheel off, and then get back in touch, you will understand so much more when you have looked, the main points to look for are the chassis tube strenght within the pickup points and the 2" tube going back to the bearing ....back to the poly bush thought, it would have to be the same design as the current double sleeved bush that are selling out to fit the griffith etc. wishbones, to be better in design than the std. unit, given that std. are so robust and are lasting so long.
IMHO of course.
Adrian@

Edited by Adrian@ on Wednesday 1st August 11:55

[GreenV8S]

Seems to be very difficult to get bushes made to spec, even if you go via superflex/poweflex. Why isn't it simply a matter of chucking a big bush in the lathe and turning it down to the required size? Innefficient for mas production but if you only need a dozen I'd have though it would be cost effective.

[Adrian@]

GreenV8S said:

Seems to be very difficult to get bushes made to spec, even if you go via superflex/poweflex. Why isn't it simply a matter of chucking a big bush in the lathe and turning it down to the required size? Innefficient for mas production but if you only need a dozen I'd have though it would be cost effective.

Pete, I already make bushes as fit the S Series front, in poly (cast)and nylatron (machined), (TBH I am sitting with a powerflex bush kit that will fit the swing arm 2 piece poly tophat and S/S tubed centre), BUT certainly with both the S3/4 and V8 the compliance in the rubber allow for tracking changes and a nylatron version would fracture under the stress of those changes.
I do like the design of the griffith bush and when my stock of std. bushes run out I might well look to have some made.
Adrian@

[GreenV8S]

Adrian@ said:

GreenV8S said:

Seems to be very difficult to get bushes made to spec, even if you go via superflex/poweflex. Why isn't it simply a matter of chucking a big bush in the lathe and turning it down to the required size? Innefficient for mas production but if you only need a dozen I'd have though it would be cost effective.

Pete, I already make bushes as fit the S Series front, in poly (cast)and nylatron (machined), (TBH I am sitting with a powerflex bush kit that will fit the swing arm 2 piece poly tophat and S/S tubed centre), BUT certainly with both the S3/4 and V8 the compliance in the rubber allow for tracking changes and a nylatron version would fracture under the stress of those changes.
I do like the design of the griffith bush and when my stock of std. bushes run out I might well look to have some made.
Adrian@

Pretty please can you sort out some glacier bearing versions, wishbone and trailing arm?

Perhaps for the trailing arm use a lower stiffness material at the outer end?

[Barkychoc]

Peter I feel much better now - I thought I had a mirror problem on my V8S as the drivers side one sticks straight out but I have to angle the passenger one in so I can see properly.
Just looked at your profile pic and yours is exactly the same (great colour too!).
I'll settle for at least one aspect of my car being the same as yours !

Chris

[GreenV8S]

Barkychoc said:

I thought I had a mirror problem on my V8S as the drivers side one sticks straight out but I have to angle the passenger one in so I can see properly.

The mirror mounts latch in two positions - forwards on the driver's side and further back/in on the passenger's side. It's because the driver is offset within the car so the sight line is different, by putting the mirror housing in the right place you get the full range of useful adjustment on both sides.