Got to get one of these cars...
Discussion
Had my first proper look at an S yesterday. What a fantastic little car…
I had plenty of time for a good nose around and a very long test drive in an S1 and I have to say it was something of a revelation. Unlike the wedge (that left me strangely underwhelmed) the S just felt right straight away – I guess you really do like one or the other. Photographs don’t really do the shape justice and the noise is fantastic; even nicer than the RV8 wedge IMHO. These were both to be expected, but what really surprised me was the driving experience – it was very easy to drive and surprisingly refined (no shakes or rattles, surprisingly little wind noise). I obviously wasn’t pushing it in someone else’s P&J, but on a variety of roads including bumpy, off-camber lanes, the ride quality was very good and it felt very very composed. I was secretly expecting ‘one of these widdow-maker TVRs’ to be a bit point-and-squirt, but in reality it’s as docile and well mannered as something like an MX5. I couldn’t detect much of the dive under braking that is supposed to be present in the S1 and the general ride quality was as good as any sportscar I’ve been in, despite not having the suspension revisions of the S2 and 3. The only weak points I can see are that it’s straightline pace wasn’t spectacular (somewhat at odds with the soundtrack perhaps) and the steering feel isn’t the sharpest around. Both were still quite respectable, but the quality of the chassis is such that you thought it would benefit from a little more in each department.
The engine appeared to be running well, so I’ve got no reason to doubt it’s representative of the 2.8 – are the later (2.9) cars noticeably quicker?
One benefit of the S1 is the mirrors fold up and back to the point where they are almost flush with the outside of the wheel arch, making the car about a foot narrow, so my pint-sized garage would no longer be an issue! Am I right in saying the mirrors won’t do this on the later cars?
I expected the earlier S1 to be more or less a benchmark for the subsequent cars, but in reality it was superb in it’s own right. The example I looked at appeared to be just about perfect mechanically and structurally, however it did have quite a few (largely minor) cosmetic issues, which poses a bit of an issue – I get the impression there aren’t many in that sort of mechanical condition and ordinarily I would bite the guys arm off as a result, but to cover all the little cosmetic issues (including potentially rehanging the doors and a respray) would no doubt prove costly.
I'm hoping to have a look at a few more examples including some of the later evolutions, but one thing's for sure - I definitely want an S!
I had plenty of time for a good nose around and a very long test drive in an S1 and I have to say it was something of a revelation. Unlike the wedge (that left me strangely underwhelmed) the S just felt right straight away – I guess you really do like one or the other. Photographs don’t really do the shape justice and the noise is fantastic; even nicer than the RV8 wedge IMHO. These were both to be expected, but what really surprised me was the driving experience – it was very easy to drive and surprisingly refined (no shakes or rattles, surprisingly little wind noise). I obviously wasn’t pushing it in someone else’s P&J, but on a variety of roads including bumpy, off-camber lanes, the ride quality was very good and it felt very very composed. I was secretly expecting ‘one of these widdow-maker TVRs’ to be a bit point-and-squirt, but in reality it’s as docile and well mannered as something like an MX5. I couldn’t detect much of the dive under braking that is supposed to be present in the S1 and the general ride quality was as good as any sportscar I’ve been in, despite not having the suspension revisions of the S2 and 3. The only weak points I can see are that it’s straightline pace wasn’t spectacular (somewhat at odds with the soundtrack perhaps) and the steering feel isn’t the sharpest around. Both were still quite respectable, but the quality of the chassis is such that you thought it would benefit from a little more in each department.
The engine appeared to be running well, so I’ve got no reason to doubt it’s representative of the 2.8 – are the later (2.9) cars noticeably quicker?
One benefit of the S1 is the mirrors fold up and back to the point where they are almost flush with the outside of the wheel arch, making the car about a foot narrow, so my pint-sized garage would no longer be an issue! Am I right in saying the mirrors won’t do this on the later cars?
I expected the earlier S1 to be more or less a benchmark for the subsequent cars, but in reality it was superb in it’s own right. The example I looked at appeared to be just about perfect mechanically and structurally, however it did have quite a few (largely minor) cosmetic issues, which poses a bit of an issue – I get the impression there aren’t many in that sort of mechanical condition and ordinarily I would bite the guys arm off as a result, but to cover all the little cosmetic issues (including potentially rehanging the doors and a respray) would no doubt prove costly.
I'm hoping to have a look at a few more examples including some of the later evolutions, but one thing's for sure - I definitely want an S!
Edited by Chris71 on Sunday 13th January 15:41
Steering feel can be affected by lots of factors from tyre pressure to suspension geometry, condition of suspension bushes etc. These cars can be setup to give nicely weighted steering with plenty of feedback, and the basic handling is very benign. Although these cars were considered cheap and cheerful compared to the big bad wedges that preceded them, and the Griffiths and Chimaeras that followed them have lots of improvements in power and performance, the S series imo stands out as being one of the most fun and chuckable TVRs; it's an ideal first TVR, with nice predictable rwd handling characteristics and enough power to be fun without overwhelming you. The later cars are faster and more refined, but somehow more remote. The V8S is a natural progression from the V6 S series if you want more performance and the running costs that go with it. These cars are lighter than the later models with lower gearing and do far better against them in competition than you might expect just from comparing the power figures.
By the way the door hinges are quite simple (tube bolted into the door top and bottom, with big bolts screwed through into the body to act as pivots). They do wear and sometimes the adjustment can slip, but it's usually no big deal to reset them. Bodywork and interior trim problems are pretty obvious, but the main thing to buy on is the condition of the chassis and running gear.
If you don't already have it I strongly suggest getting yourself a copy of Steve Heath's book on the S series from the TVRCC club office - this contains a wealth of practical experience collated from owners over the years.
By the way the door hinges are quite simple (tube bolted into the door top and bottom, with big bolts screwed through into the body to act as pivots). They do wear and sometimes the adjustment can slip, but it's usually no big deal to reset them. Bodywork and interior trim problems are pretty obvious, but the main thing to buy on is the condition of the chassis and running gear.
If you don't already have it I strongly suggest getting yourself a copy of Steve Heath's book on the S series from the TVRCC club office - this contains a wealth of practical experience collated from owners over the years.
Some useful info...
By the way, when you referred to the later cars did you mean the griffith/chimera etc. or the subsequent evolutions of the S? Quite interested to see if there is any discernable difference in performance with the later V6 cars and also intrigued as to how they drive with the rear suspension changes. I really didn't pick up on any serious dive or ride problems to correct.
GreenV8S said:
These cars are lighter than the later models with lower gearing and do far better against them in competition than you might expect just from comparing the power figures.
To be fair, we overtook a few people and from sitting behind them to pulling in front of them didn't take very much time at all and the speedo reading surprised me occasionally, so it was probably quicker than it felt. On paper the V6 S a better power to weight ratio than a 350i...GreenV8S said:
Although these cars were considered cheap and cheerful... The later cars are faster and more refined, but somehow more remote.
I was actually surprised at how well put together it was. The ride didn't feel like a comprimised low volume car and there were no untoward squeeks or rattles. Much like the wedge I saw previously it felt very much like a production car and not remotely like like the budget alternative.GreenV8S said:
By the way the door hinges are quite simple (tube bolted into the door top and bottom, with big bolts screwed through into the body to act as pivots). They do wear and sometimes the adjustment can slip, but it's usually no big deal to reset them. Bodywork and interior trim problems are pretty obvious, but the main thing to buy on is the condition of the chassis and running gear.
Good to know about the doors - I was under the impression it was a big job to sort them out. Unfortunately as a result of dropping, the bolts on the underside of the doors have left some deep scratches and there are a few other points on the body that may be difficult to correct without a respray. The hood lining is ripped, the carpets are worn through, the leather is a little tired and there are minor oil and water leaks. Does seem good mechanically though...By the way, when you referred to the later cars did you mean the griffith/chimera etc. or the subsequent evolutions of the S? Quite interested to see if there is any discernable difference in performance with the later V6 cars and also intrigued as to how they drive with the rear suspension changes. I really didn't pick up on any serious dive or ride problems to correct.
Chris71 said:
By the way, when you referred to the later cars did you mean the griffith/chimera etc
Yes, I did. They've got similar/more power (depending which models you compare), superior twin wishbone suspension all round, and a more refined ride. But the performance gap is not as great as you might think from the BHP figures, and the refined ride seems to come at the cost of chuckability and driver feedback. For touring I think you'd definitely appreciate the improvements of the later models, but if you're going out to have a fun drive you might find the S more rewarding. I'm biased, but the S series IMO really does make a great introduction to TVR ownership.Barkychoc said:
The important thing is don't rush - cars aren't shifting this time of year so have a look at a few.
I ended up buying the first one I looked at but not before I'd looked around a bit.
The one I bought felt 'right' even though its not perfect.
I agree entirely - not in any rush.I ended up buying the first one I looked at but not before I'd looked around a bit.
The one I bought felt 'right' even though its not perfect.
The dilema surrounding that particular example may become irelevant if they all drive that well or indeed if they're all in a similar cosmetic condition.
Hoping to see an S3 next weekend. Should I expect to see marked improvments in any areas? Like I said, the only thing yesterdays example felt like it could do with (dynamically) was a few more bhp.
Have a look at a few before you decide which to buy. The door drop issue can sometimes be sorted by the adjuster as Peter says but not always and if a new pivot is needed its fiddly to do yourself and expensive to get someone else to do. I've had my S3C 11 years now and it has been great fun so it'll be staying for a while yet!
Much work on the S is relatively easy to do yourself so servicing can be cheaper as well. Don't be afraid of one that has done a few miles provided the condition is good; these cars can often be better than those which don't get used as the jobs get done on them.
I can only say the S is super fun (I think you have discovered that for yourself though!)and, at the current prices, a bargain so go and find one - good luck with the hunt!
Jim
Much work on the S is relatively easy to do yourself so servicing can be cheaper as well. Don't be afraid of one that has done a few miles provided the condition is good; these cars can often be better than those which don't get used as the jobs get done on them.
I can only say the S is super fun (I think you have discovered that for yourself though!)and, at the current prices, a bargain so go and find one - good luck with the hunt!
Jim
Also give the service history a good look (if it has one) look for any big jobs, (clutch, gearbox, chassis stuff etc) that might have been done recently. I agree that high mileage is not necessarily a problem if the jobs have been done, but watch out for the cars that did huge mileage years ago but have stood idle for the last five years or so...
But dont let your head have all the say... trust your gut sometimes.
You WILL have fun when you get yours. Good luck with the search.
K
But dont let your head have all the say... trust your gut sometimes.
You WILL have fun when you get yours. Good luck with the search.
K
I can believe it - it was certainly fun to drive. Are there any cost effective tuning mods that can be applied to a V6 S? (Apart from switching to a V8S!)
Another point - one which I probably should have asked a while ago - beyond the PH classifieds, where is a good place to search for an S?
If anyone hears of others in decent condition within a hundred miles or so of London please drop me a line. Got another visit lined up next weekend that sounds promising, but keen to hear of more.
Another point - one which I probably should have asked a while ago - beyond the PH classifieds, where is a good place to search for an S?
If anyone hears of others in decent condition within a hundred miles or so of London please drop me a line. Got another visit lined up next weekend that sounds promising, but keen to hear of more.
Have a read here... http://www.pistonheads.com/tvr/s/default.asp?story...
Chris71 said:
Another point - one which I probably should have asked a while ago - beyond the PH classifieds, where is a good place to search for an S?
Not sure if its a "Good" place to look but there are normally a few on here...http://search.autotrader.co.uk/es-uk/www/cars/sear...
change the "S3" in the search to see others, S1, S2 etc...
and of course if you are a TVRCC member you will see some listed in Sprint..
K
Edited by ketvrin on Monday 14th January 11:41
Chris71 said:
I can believe it - it was certainly fun to drive. Are there any cost effective tuning mods that can be applied to a V6 S? (Apart from switching to a V8S!)
There is a throttle mod by Guglielmi motorsport that improves the V6 throttle response. www.guglielmimotorsport.co.ukI'm sure Longers will be along in a minute to tell you all about it.
You can also change the fuel pressure regulator for a rising rate one - I don't know how much benefit this brings.
The general conscensus is thats about it really - start spending more money and its cheaper to get a V8S.
Upgrading shocks and springs is always a good investment - unless you can find a car thats had it done already. Circa £500 if you DIY fit.
Podie said:
Have a read here... http://www.pistonheads.com/tvr/s/default.asp?story...
Thats a great article Podie, I hadn't seen it before... 
Podie said:
Quite old now. Car was around 200-210bhp by the time I sold it. Damn I miss that car.
Very useful article - well written too as Ketvrin said.What else did you do to it to get to the eventual 200+hp? I know the Rover V8 is quite famous for not making its claimed power figures, so by the time you're up to that sort of output it would give a V8S a run for its money I assume.
Are there any substantial differences in the engine managment system on the 2.8 (must be some to allow for the after treatment I presume...) I wonder if similar gains could be made there.
I must admit, I intend to be pretty hands-off with my next car, having spent more time underneath the previous ones than driving them, but I believe I'm right in saying changing shocks isn't too bad on the S's? On the whole however, I'd rather get something with all the major jobs done, leaving me to drive it, polish it and service [it in that order]!
Actually, I do have another fueling/ignition related question: is it normal for them to pop and bang on overun? Sounds great, but there's no real need for it on an electronically managed engine, I wonder if the one t'other day was supposed to do that!
Edited by Chris71 on Monday 14th January 12:42
Was running stainless manifolds, decat and exhaust, smooth bore intake pipes and twin filters, with ducting pushing air towards them, uprated fuel pressure regulator and in-tank pump. Aside from that, the injectors were cleaned, the plenum cleaned and that was about it.
Would keep a 4.0 Chimaera honest...
Would keep a 4.0 Chimaera honest...
Barkychoc said:
Chris71 said:
I can believe it - it was certainly fun to drive. Are there any cost effective tuning mods that can be applied to a V6 S? (Apart from switching to a V8S!)
There is a throttle mod by Guglielmi motorsport that improves the V6 throttle response. www.guglielmimotorsport.co.ukI'm sure Longers will be along in a minute to tell you all about it.
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