Look at my camshaft - it's made of cheese!
Discussion
OK well obviously too much time on my hands, here's the science, cam lobes measured with a micrometer.
Lobe 5, the worst. Height 32.32mm.
Lobe 11 joint best at 35.17mm (and only 3 lobes left at this height!) Compare the lobe shape to the one above too.
The cam is well tired - if you've ever looked at the V8 info on the RPI website its a perfect impression of one of their worn cam pictures.
The other issue is where has all that metal gone?
Around the engine thats where.
I need new rockers, rocker shafts, oil pump, oil pump gears, camshaft, hydraulic lifters, pushrods, cam chain & gears, big end bearings, main bearings, cam bearings. (The bearings aren't too bad but I found a score line down to the copper in the rear main bearing and its false economy to put the old ones back in while its apart)
About £640 in parts from what I've costed so far and that excludes gaskets. Not to mention new clutch and flywheel.
I'm going to leave the engine until the body off is nearer to completion - no point in spending a pile of cash and have it sitting in the garage.
Chris
Lobe 5, the worst. Height 32.32mm.
Lobe 11 joint best at 35.17mm (and only 3 lobes left at this height!) Compare the lobe shape to the one above too.
The cam is well tired - if you've ever looked at the V8 info on the RPI website its a perfect impression of one of their worn cam pictures.
The other issue is where has all that metal gone?
Around the engine thats where.
I need new rockers, rocker shafts, oil pump, oil pump gears, camshaft, hydraulic lifters, pushrods, cam chain & gears, big end bearings, main bearings, cam bearings. (The bearings aren't too bad but I found a score line down to the copper in the rear main bearing and its false economy to put the old ones back in while its apart)
About £640 in parts from what I've costed so far and that excludes gaskets. Not to mention new clutch and flywheel.
I'm going to leave the engine until the body off is nearer to completion - no point in spending a pile of cash and have it sitting in the garage.
Chris
Edited by Barkychoc on Wednesday 11th June 21:33
Did you measure from the tip of the lobe to the flat bit on the other side?
The only way to measure a cam's wear is to see how much lift it gives when rotated because the rocker gear is adjusted off the lobe so it's a relative measurement. It might be that the non-lobe side is smaller too giving the correct lift for the engine.
However, any visible wear is bad but personally I wouldn't bother changing all those parts mentioned unless you're sure metally oil has damaged them.
The only way to measure a cam's wear is to see how much lift it gives when rotated because the rocker gear is adjusted off the lobe so it's a relative measurement. It might be that the non-lobe side is smaller too giving the correct lift for the engine.
However, any visible wear is bad but personally I wouldn't bother changing all those parts mentioned unless you're sure metally oil has damaged them.
mikee boy said:
Did you measure from the tip of the lobe to the flat bit on the other side?
The only way to measure a cam's wear is to see how much lift it gives when rotated because the rocker gear is adjusted off the lobe so it's a relative measurement. It might be that the non-lobe side is smaller too giving the correct lift for the engine.
However, any visible wear is bad but personally I wouldn't bother changing all those parts mentioned unless you're sure metally oil has damaged them.
Yes I did measure it from the rear of the cam - but its visibly well worn.The only way to measure a cam's wear is to see how much lift it gives when rotated because the rocker gear is adjusted off the lobe so it's a relative measurement. It might be that the non-lobe side is smaller too giving the correct lift for the engine.
However, any visible wear is bad but personally I wouldn't bother changing all those parts mentioned unless you're sure metally oil has damaged them.
If you look at the pics in the first post you can see the worst lobe isn't even pointy anymore - look at the shape (or lack of) of the lobe!
All the parts mentioned are worn, new cam must have new hydraulic lifters, oil pump base is scored, rocker shafts are scored etc etc. No one wants to do this at low cost more than me!
Have a read here - mines a classic case!
http://www.rpiv8.com/engine-4.htm#worncams
I hate to say it but there's a lot to be said for Uncle Henry's big old lump of iron!
Edited by Barkychoc on Thursday 12th June 10:18
Good post Chris, but a scary one!!! Could you tell it was on its way out?
Let me take you for a spin at Newark and see how mine compares to yours. I'm pretty much banking on it being have to be done soon (50k miles). I never rev it over 5K ish and theres still power there!
The ancilaries you mention, are they all compulsory for cam replacement?
Let me take you for a spin at Newark and see how mine compares to yours. I'm pretty much banking on it being have to be done soon (50k miles). I never rev it over 5K ish and theres still power there!
The ancilaries you mention, are they all compulsory for cam replacement?
Hi Chris
Have you seen this
http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/stoppress/rover_v8_engine.htx
Lots of dosh but by the time you have reburbished the rest of the engine!! (I cant see you just doing the cam etc)
Have you seen this
http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/stoppress/rover_v8_engine.htx
Lots of dosh but by the time you have reburbished the rest of the engine!! (I cant see you just doing the cam etc)
Gerald-TVR said:
Hi Chris
Have you seen this
http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/stoppress/rover_v8_engine.htx
Lots of dosh but by the time you have reburbished the rest of the engine!! (I cant see you just doing the cam etc)
Norman - I've seen those but they are a later type of engine, the cam has no drive for the distributor so would need to be changed - plus various other bits would need to be swapped from my old engine to that one. Have you seen this
http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/stoppress/rover_v8_engine.htx
Lots of dosh but by the time you have reburbished the rest of the engine!! (I cant see you just doing the cam etc)
I reckon my rebuild will come in at under a grand, and it will still be the original engine.
I've made my engine sound like its totally shot - its not at all but while its apart any worn components will be replaced - otherwise if left they will continue to wear and screw up the new parts.
If its going to be done then I plan to do it well!
Chris
Edited by Barkychoc on Thursday 12th June 10:05
V8ish said:
Good post Chris, but a scary one!!! Could you tell it was on its way out?
Let me take you for a spin at Newark and see how mine compares to yours. I'm pretty much banking on it being have to be done soon (50k miles). I never rev it over 5K ish and theres still power there!
The ancilaries you mention, are they all compulsory for cam replacement?
I had read the RPI website before and did reckon I was going to have to replace the cam and followers as a minimum - the idle was always a bit dodgy and pickup wasn't electric - always what I'd describe as a bit lazy.Let me take you for a spin at Newark and see how mine compares to yours. I'm pretty much banking on it being have to be done soon (50k miles). I never rev it over 5K ish and theres still power there!
The ancilaries you mention, are they all compulsory for cam replacement?
Performance was quick, but not neck snapping (it is quoted as being quicker than a ferrari and porsche of its day) but I always felt there should be more - now I know why!
The worn oil pump is a feature of the V8 - as is worn rockers when the cam has gone - have a good read of the RPI website some scary but true info in there (I've read it elsewhere aswell but its all in one place on the RPI site).
I plan to do the rebuild myself - I've done it before but long long ago!
I'll take my time as it will still be a learning exercise.
Chris
V8ish said:
Its already on my watch list as a temporary measure, not far from me either.Its only 3.5 litre though.
Chris
I don't know if you know my full history but due to health issues earlier this year I am not allowed to drive at the moment. My license has been revoked and I can reapply 12 months after my surgery which is next april.
The upshot of this is that I've put the engine to one side for now - I thought there's no point spending lots of money for it to be sat in the garage not being driven.
I have pretty much decided that I'm going to go for a V8 Develoopments MC1 camshaft (lots of good reports on Griff / Chim forums) and it's not too lairy and retains good driveability at low revs.
I have not decided where to buy my other components from - but Dave Ellis race engines have been very helpful.
I read V8 Developments are also top guys - I just haven't spoken to them so please don't anyone interpret this as anything negative towards those guys.
I would say that if your rockers are worn that there's a reason for that - most likely metal swarf making its way around your engine that used to be part of your camshaft
There's lots of good info on the RPI website.
If you have no history of a cam change I'd put money on it needing one by now regardless of mileage, especially if you have tappet noise - the tappet noise is the symptom not the cause - that could be the cam wear increasing clearances beyond what the hydraulic lifters can cope with.
I've had my main bearing caps off and the rear one has a nice big score around the shell bearing - fortunately the crank is unmarked.
Sorry I'm rambling on - all I'm saying is if you're going to do it do it properly - just replacing the rockers will most likely result in them beibng worn again in a short space of time.
I am no expert - just an enthusiastic amateur so if any of the above is b
cks anybody please correct me.
The upshot of this is that I've put the engine to one side for now - I thought there's no point spending lots of money for it to be sat in the garage not being driven.
I have pretty much decided that I'm going to go for a V8 Develoopments MC1 camshaft (lots of good reports on Griff / Chim forums) and it's not too lairy and retains good driveability at low revs.
I have not decided where to buy my other components from - but Dave Ellis race engines have been very helpful.
I read V8 Developments are also top guys - I just haven't spoken to them so please don't anyone interpret this as anything negative towards those guys.
I would say that if your rockers are worn that there's a reason for that - most likely metal swarf making its way around your engine that used to be part of your camshaft
There's lots of good info on the RPI website.
If you have no history of a cam change I'd put money on it needing one by now regardless of mileage, especially if you have tappet noise - the tappet noise is the symptom not the cause - that could be the cam wear increasing clearances beyond what the hydraulic lifters can cope with.
I've had my main bearing caps off and the rear one has a nice big score around the shell bearing - fortunately the crank is unmarked.
Sorry I'm rambling on - all I'm saying is if you're going to do it do it properly - just replacing the rockers will most likely result in them beibng worn again in a short space of time.
I am no expert - just an enthusiastic amateur so if any of the above is b
cks anybody please correct me.- Edited to add you are more than welcome to come and look at my engine if you want to see what's involved. I've alredy had it to bits and cleaned it up and its mounted on a stand so is easy to look at.
- Edited again to add the Rover V8 engine is a real tough old bird and very forgiving - apparently the engine will still run reasonably well (although down on power) with a totally shot camshaft.
Edited by Barkychoc on Sunday 17th August 11:32
Edited by Barkychoc on Sunday 17th August 18:53
My cam had a reference of KCML9 on the end of it.
I have emailed Kent cams and it was one of theirs (though they didn't give me anything beyond that).
A bit worrying then that the car has done 66k, the cam is shot and its not even the original one
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=gmSavy1RPxEC&am...
I have emailed Kent cams and it was one of theirs (though they didn't give me anything beyond that).
A bit worrying then that the car has done 66k, the cam is shot and its not even the original one
- I've done a bit more digging (OK Googling) and it seems there was a Rover cam called the ML9 (I'm guessing made for them by Kent).
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=gmSavy1RPxEC&am...
- ETA Kent replied & said its the same as their H214 cam - which is a bit of a lairy one.
Edited by Barkychoc on Monday 18th August 17:46
Edited by Barkychoc on Monday 18th August 17:48
Hi Chris,
Sorry to hear about your health problems, I hope you get better soon.
I have looked at the available information on the internet before and found the RPI site very informative. Although, some of the recommendations are a little biased towards 4X4 performance. It is always good to hear from people that have tried these things for themselves in a similar car. I am no stranger to engine rebuilds, but never a V8 before. I will have a look into your cam.
I had planned on having a go at the engine over the winter period, but Mrs Z and the forthcoming baby are likely to take priority. Should I manage to find the funds and the time I would expect to post a few pics on the forum.
Thanks for the offer of seeing your engine disassembled. If I am in your area perhaps I can arrange to have a look.
Kind regards,
Z
Sorry to hear about your health problems, I hope you get better soon.
I have looked at the available information on the internet before and found the RPI site very informative. Although, some of the recommendations are a little biased towards 4X4 performance. It is always good to hear from people that have tried these things for themselves in a similar car. I am no stranger to engine rebuilds, but never a V8 before. I will have a look into your cam.
I had planned on having a go at the engine over the winter period, but Mrs Z and the forthcoming baby are likely to take priority. Should I manage to find the funds and the time I would expect to post a few pics on the forum.
Thanks for the offer of seeing your engine disassembled. If I am in your area perhaps I can arrange to have a look.
Kind regards,
Z
Gassing Station | S Series | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff