24v V6 cosworth how many have done this & what do you think?
Discussion
Trickjohn on here has one but I don't think he did the conversion.
I don't think there are all that many around but it obviously can be done.
There are 2 versions of the engine BOA (earlier) and BOB.
The BOA is the one you want, along with all wiring, ECU etc as they are hard to source seperately so expensive, the best bet is probably to get a complete granada (manual if poss) as a donor car. Engine parts are very pricey too and not easy to source - Sean (trickjohn) had the timing chain tensioners collapse and it cost him quite a bit just in parts to sort out, and some of the bits were on a bit of a lead time I think.
HTH
Chris
I don't think there are all that many around but it obviously can be done.
There are 2 versions of the engine BOA (earlier) and BOB.
The BOA is the one you want, along with all wiring, ECU etc as they are hard to source seperately so expensive, the best bet is probably to get a complete granada (manual if poss) as a donor car. Engine parts are very pricey too and not easy to source - Sean (trickjohn) had the timing chain tensioners collapse and it cost him quite a bit just in parts to sort out, and some of the bits were on a bit of a lead time I think.
HTH
Chris
spitfire4v8 said:
One of the best guys to speak to about teh 24v cossie is a PHer .. Boostedls1 and his company/website boostperformance should be your first ports of call 
Interesting. Hmmm. 
Temptation to PM Boosted was too great to resist, would certainly make life more exciting...
Edited by Chris71 on Thursday 26th March 11:10
I converted mine over three years ago, and at a guess there may be as many as half a dozen.
The engine absolutely transforms the performance and feel of the car, but at a price. Whilst basic engines can be picked up cheaply enough, with ECU`s etc, it does not stop there. The other significant cost is the exhaust headers, but there are numerous other small changes which do add up. I went further and used an Emerald programable ECU, and a new purpose made exhaust. In all it cost me around £4K, but you could do it for around £1.5-2K. You could get nearly as much of a performance improvement buy properly tuning your existing engine for around £1-1.5K, but I will say the standard engine does feel rough compared to the BOA.
My main problem is I started with an S1, not fully appreciating the subtle improvements with the later cars (even though I used to own an S3 many years ago). I also thought that given the fact that I trackday the car and give it some serious abuse, that having a "nice" car would be a mistake because I would live in fear of scratching it. I think I made the right decision, but there are times when the basic faults with the S1 annoy me.
As for replacement parts, yes they are expensive, but touch wood, they are very reliable, provided the timing chain tensioners are replaced at the correct intervals...I think its about 80000 miles, so given I do about 5000 miles a year, it does not concern me too much. If the engine lets go, then it would probably be cheaper to buy another one, although I also hanker after the idea of fitting another more modern, lighter and efficient V6. I believe there is a race team running in the TVR challenge with a twin turbo engine producing 500hp, and its proovent to be extremely reliable.
If you want any info, do not hesitate to ask.
The engine absolutely transforms the performance and feel of the car, but at a price. Whilst basic engines can be picked up cheaply enough, with ECU`s etc, it does not stop there. The other significant cost is the exhaust headers, but there are numerous other small changes which do add up. I went further and used an Emerald programable ECU, and a new purpose made exhaust. In all it cost me around £4K, but you could do it for around £1.5-2K. You could get nearly as much of a performance improvement buy properly tuning your existing engine for around £1-1.5K, but I will say the standard engine does feel rough compared to the BOA.
My main problem is I started with an S1, not fully appreciating the subtle improvements with the later cars (even though I used to own an S3 many years ago). I also thought that given the fact that I trackday the car and give it some serious abuse, that having a "nice" car would be a mistake because I would live in fear of scratching it. I think I made the right decision, but there are times when the basic faults with the S1 annoy me.
As for replacement parts, yes they are expensive, but touch wood, they are very reliable, provided the timing chain tensioners are replaced at the correct intervals...I think its about 80000 miles, so given I do about 5000 miles a year, it does not concern me too much. If the engine lets go, then it would probably be cheaper to buy another one, although I also hanker after the idea of fitting another more modern, lighter and efficient V6. I believe there is a race team running in the TVR challenge with a twin turbo engine producing 500hp, and its proovent to be extremely reliable.
If you want any info, do not hesitate to ask.
CTE said:
If you want any info, do not hesitate to ask.
Hi,What are the basic steps to sticking a Cosworth lump in?
Is it just a case of changing the mounts, ECU, engine loom and manifolds?
Definitely sympathise with your comments about not wanting to damage the car on track days. That's the main reason I'm considering a step away from TVR ownership - something a bit less shiny that I'm not so worried about keeping pristine.
Chris, its some time ago now, but here goes.....
The block is the same, so engine mounts and gearbox are a straight swap.
- Modifiy the anti roll bar because the sump fouled
- Exhaust headers obviously
- My S1 had electronic ignition as opposed to an ECU, so there were quite a few wiring alterations, which is another reason why I went for an after market ECU, but with an S2 or S3, or S4 for that matter, I would say the wiring is more simple, but I am not a vehicle electrician.
There are lots of small things to consider though, which whilst not expensive, can be awkward, and you`ll have to use your imagination....
- Throttle linkage
- Coolant pipes
- Header tank
- Alternator and mounting
- Brake resrvoir
- I moved the battery to the boot because of a lack of room
- I fitted an uprated clutch
- I swapped the flywheel from the 2.8i engine because it is lighter, oh and the engine was from an auto box car, which is a good thing because there will be no crankshaft end float problems. Infact I do not know if they actually made Granada Scorpio Cosworths with manual boxes. Anyhow, fitting a 2.8i flywheel is a recognised improvement for engine responsiveness etc.
- I removed all the power steering guff to save weight and power
The gearbox is another weak link, but mine is still holding together after 3 years, but I do not rag it off the line, and generally nurture it when possible. I also fitted an LSD, which will have saved many sets of tyres, and improved traction, infact to such an extent that it is hard in the dry to unstick the rear end....surprisingly.
I am sure there are a few other things, because it took me a year!, although hardly full time.
The block is the same, so engine mounts and gearbox are a straight swap.
- Modifiy the anti roll bar because the sump fouled
- Exhaust headers obviously
- My S1 had electronic ignition as opposed to an ECU, so there were quite a few wiring alterations, which is another reason why I went for an after market ECU, but with an S2 or S3, or S4 for that matter, I would say the wiring is more simple, but I am not a vehicle electrician.
There are lots of small things to consider though, which whilst not expensive, can be awkward, and you`ll have to use your imagination....
- Throttle linkage
- Coolant pipes
- Header tank
- Alternator and mounting
- Brake resrvoir
- I moved the battery to the boot because of a lack of room
- I fitted an uprated clutch
- I swapped the flywheel from the 2.8i engine because it is lighter, oh and the engine was from an auto box car, which is a good thing because there will be no crankshaft end float problems. Infact I do not know if they actually made Granada Scorpio Cosworths with manual boxes. Anyhow, fitting a 2.8i flywheel is a recognised improvement for engine responsiveness etc.
- I removed all the power steering guff to save weight and power
The gearbox is another weak link, but mine is still holding together after 3 years, but I do not rag it off the line, and generally nurture it when possible. I also fitted an LSD, which will have saved many sets of tyres, and improved traction, infact to such an extent that it is hard in the dry to unstick the rear end....surprisingly.
I am sure there are a few other things, because it took me a year!, although hardly full time.
I've used the cosworth clutch and 2.8 flywheel, modded headers and raised the alternator above the chassis rail and I've ditched the pas. I use the stock throttle cable and leave the servo where it was. I fit a K&N filter onto a lengthened pipe from the inlet to the plenum and I also reposition the pipes on the coolant tower to point in the correct direction. The stock ecu works but you'll need a pair of lambda's. I've not moved the battery though.
Once the engines in the rest of the bits are relatively simple albeit fiddly.
Once the engines in the rest of the bits are relatively simple albeit fiddly.
Excellent, my sort of topic.
My engines out, + i think I'm going to have to have the body off anyway to sort out the chassis so may as well strengthen it.
I'm thinking about going for this route also when I pull my car to (more) bits.
I can see me getting a low end Chimaera this year, and do the S properly - with a 24v.
I think you`ll find a sorted S with a 24v engine pushing out 220 to 230hp depending upon exhaust headers and ECU etc, will leave an asthmatic V8 powered Chimera of Griffith. Mine certainly does, although I have not gone head to head with a 5.0ltr car, which would be interesting. As for corner speeds, well, theres so many factors....tyres, suspension settings, driver ability/common sense etc etc.
Why the fixation with the BOA engine..?
It has the unreliable 3 metre timeing chain and lesser cams.
The BOB on the other hand has 2 timimg chains, improved chain tensioners, better cams, Variable intate and SHORTER heads at the rear.
oh an generally a lower mileage..
Personally I was thinking a BOB might be a better fit than a BOA as the head may not faul the bulkhead..?
I have read that the ECU is harder to move because of some ford security thing to do with the key.? Is it possible for a mapper to get around this or do I need a Magasquirt / Microsquirt or other after market management with this engine.? I assume you cannot use BOA management with the BOB due to the variable inlet thing..? or Can I..?
Just looking at the engines alone which is considered superior and why..?
Happy to be educated but I am just not seeing it.?
Cheers
Damian
Blue TVR S3 (in parts.. )
It has the unreliable 3 metre timeing chain and lesser cams.
The BOB on the other hand has 2 timimg chains, improved chain tensioners, better cams, Variable intate and SHORTER heads at the rear.
oh an generally a lower mileage..
Personally I was thinking a BOB might be a better fit than a BOA as the head may not faul the bulkhead..?
I have read that the ECU is harder to move because of some ford security thing to do with the key.? Is it possible for a mapper to get around this or do I need a Magasquirt / Microsquirt or other after market management with this engine.? I assume you cannot use BOA management with the BOB due to the variable inlet thing..? or Can I..?
Just looking at the engines alone which is considered superior and why..?
Happy to be educated but I am just not seeing it.?
Cheers
Damian
Blue TVR S3 (in parts.. )
^ People prefer the BOA because of the duplex chain as opposed to the push bike chains on the BOB. The BOB ecu is a pain and has PATS anti-theft but this can be worked around with work. Then you have to make the VIS work if you don't use a BOB ecu. They don't like the BOB plenum and it's VIS and the BOA plenum is badged as Cosworth so they like that 
BOA heads just clear the bulkhead but it's close. Cams can be swopped.
BOA heads just clear the bulkhead but it's close. Cams can be swopped.
Thanks Boosted.. I didn't appreciate that when moving to 2 chains they went simplex.. hmm.. I am still curious though Cosworth must have thought it a good idea or maybe just a cost saving exercize..?
So a BOA with BOB cams is the reccomended way to go.. looking around most of these engines are getting a bit up there in mileage whats ballpark is a reduild for one of these units in..?
Cheers
Damian
So a BOA with BOB cams is the reccomended way to go.. looking around most of these engines are getting a bit up there in mileage whats ballpark is a reduild for one of these units in..?
Cheers
Damian
techbotics said:
Thanks Boosted.. I didn't appreciate that when moving to 2 chains they went simplex.. hmm.. I am still curious though Cosworth must have thought it a good idea or maybe just a cost saving exercize..?
So a BOA with BOB cams is the reccomended way to go.. looking around most of these engines are getting a bit up there in mileage whats ballpark is a reduild for one of these units in..?
Cheers
Damian
BOB was technically a Ford engine not a cosworth so changes would have been down to ford. A full rebuild can be quite expensive but usually the cranl, pistons and bores are fine. You'd expect to remove the sump and timing cover, replace shain, broken guides and blade sleeve. Change bearings at the same time. I charge £200 for a strip down including heads off. Assembly plus major parts would be about £1k. Or just run it and see what happens, engines are £100 to £500 ish. HTH.So a BOA with BOB cams is the reccomended way to go.. looking around most of these engines are getting a bit up there in mileage whats ballpark is a reduild for one of these units in..?
Cheers
Damian
Oh, here's a good forum for information and a turbo
http://maddoldbugger.powweb.com/forum/index.php?sh...
So... Boosted... what can I do with this lump in my ST220 then..? 
Same sort of stuff. Iirc those engines are very similar but a tad smaller in capacity. A turbo is usually the best way forward but you may have to resolve any engine management/mapping issues. I've never worked on an ST220 but would imagine it's straightforward. Low boost would be a good option for a stock engine.
This might be a completly stupid question BUT here goes anyway.
With the 2.9 Cologne engine how sensible (or not) would it be to cosider dumping the injection and the engine managment system and switching to carbs or possibly a supercharger? I dont understand the necessity for the complexity of engine managment and my simple brain is stuck in the 60's when i understood how cars worked.
Norman
With the 2.9 Cologne engine how sensible (or not) would it be to cosider dumping the injection and the engine managment system and switching to carbs or possibly a supercharger? I dont understand the necessity for the complexity of engine managment and my simple brain is stuck in the 60's when i understood how cars worked.
Norman
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