Overheating/pinking and fuel pump whine
Discussion
I don't mean to take over this forum guys but my car has thrown up quite a few issues this weekend that I need to deal with but I wanted your advice before I tackle them. I reckon the fan gave out last night as the temperature went through the roof and the oil pressure was fluctuating back and forth and only holding stable under acceleration. Under idle conditions the engine wanted to stall itself. I used to have a radiator leak but it was sealed with Rad Seal recently, but obviously it must have failed again. Would the overheating issues be enough to cause serious pinking? The engine also began to run very roughly. I'm going to drive through France in 2 weeks and I'm worried about the temperatures the car will have to deal with. Should I have a re-core or upgrade the fan now? (The oil level seems fine)
Finally, after the car came out of servicing recently the engine stalled from fuel starvation a number of times. It seemed to be induced by heat. But the more I used the car, the longer the distance between fuel starvation and stalling. The fuel pump began to scream and whine as the engine got hotter as though there was a blockage and it would thermally cut out. Standing by the side of the road for 20 mins would be enough to cure it and the engine would restart. At first I thought there was an air blockage and took it back to the garage. They could not find any issues. However, after a long drive yesterday the whine was back and I was convinced it was going to stall so I parked it.
Are these problems all connected? What do I really need to replace to find peace of mind?
Thank you all again.
Finally, after the car came out of servicing recently the engine stalled from fuel starvation a number of times. It seemed to be induced by heat. But the more I used the car, the longer the distance between fuel starvation and stalling. The fuel pump began to scream and whine as the engine got hotter as though there was a blockage and it would thermally cut out. Standing by the side of the road for 20 mins would be enough to cure it and the engine would restart. At first I thought there was an air blockage and took it back to the garage. They could not find any issues. However, after a long drive yesterday the whine was back and I was convinced it was going to stall so I parked it.
Are these problems all connected? What do I really need to replace to find peace of mind?
Thank you all again.
Edited by The Stiglet on Sunday 14th June 12:41
Sorry to hear she is giving you a hard time.
You say the fan gave up? I'd check this out first by making sure the fan runs when you short out the fan switch. Probably need to check the fuse as well.
You don't need to run the engine to test the fan, just put the ignition on and short out the fan terminals. It works through a relay so it will test this as well.
Secondly, I would not rely on using radweld type treatments, especially if you are thinking of using it for long distances or in hot climate. A new or repaired rad is the only real answer if you have a leak.
As regards the pinking and running rough...if the engine gets extremely hot, then it will tend to pink heavily.
If it were me, I'd run it up on the driveway until it gets up to full temp, after checking the fan etc over, and making sure the system is full and bled of any air. See at what stage the fan cuts in. Ticking over on the drive it will probably take 10 minutes to get to fan cut in temperature. If the fan cuts in at about the 90 mark, then that is OK, but if the temp still climbs, there may be another fault . Check for the system becoming pressurised (squeeze the top hose while wearing a decent glove to see if it feels "hard". If your engine has got very hot for very long, a head gasket could be gone. If it has, the car will often heat up very rapidly, run rough, pressurise the coolant. A compression test will cnfirm if it has although the engines are pretty tough.
As regards the fuel pump...if it screeching as bad as you say, I'd personally just fit a new one or one from a scrappy to prove your point. I think they are only about £80 new, possibly less off Ebay.
Hope that helps a bit..and hope you get it sorted.
You say the fan gave up? I'd check this out first by making sure the fan runs when you short out the fan switch. Probably need to check the fuse as well.
You don't need to run the engine to test the fan, just put the ignition on and short out the fan terminals. It works through a relay so it will test this as well.
Secondly, I would not rely on using radweld type treatments, especially if you are thinking of using it for long distances or in hot climate. A new or repaired rad is the only real answer if you have a leak.
As regards the pinking and running rough...if the engine gets extremely hot, then it will tend to pink heavily.
If it were me, I'd run it up on the driveway until it gets up to full temp, after checking the fan etc over, and making sure the system is full and bled of any air. See at what stage the fan cuts in. Ticking over on the drive it will probably take 10 minutes to get to fan cut in temperature. If the fan cuts in at about the 90 mark, then that is OK, but if the temp still climbs, there may be another fault . Check for the system becoming pressurised (squeeze the top hose while wearing a decent glove to see if it feels "hard". If your engine has got very hot for very long, a head gasket could be gone. If it has, the car will often heat up very rapidly, run rough, pressurise the coolant. A compression test will cnfirm if it has although the engines are pretty tough.
As regards the fuel pump...if it screeching as bad as you say, I'd personally just fit a new one or one from a scrappy to prove your point. I think they are only about £80 new, possibly less off Ebay.
Hope that helps a bit..and hope you get it sorted.
There have been a few guys on here that have had problems with rust or debris in the fuel filter. Could this be the problem with the fuel starvation?. Apart from the large in line fuel filter there is a plastic gauze type filter in the bottom of the fuel tank. To get to it you need to remove the round plate and feel about inside with your fingers. I have a spare tank and if you decide to check it out let me know and I will take some pics so you know where to look. Good luck.
Thanks guys, that has given me enough to get started with. I will try to give this a go when I get some free time. I shouldn't think the head gasket has gone because the temperature, whilst remaining high, does not soar into the red ever. I've been in a car when the head gasket went and this doesn't have the same symptoms...yet. Best to get it fixed before this happens.
Everyone else's car at Gaydon started first time, no problem. Mine has always taken a while and needs about 3 seconds or more of turning over to start. Then the mechanical fuel injection seems to take an eternity before the engine settles to its normal tone. I normally sit there for around 30 seconds or more to get the thing to settle to a comfortable rhythm before moving off.
Always some sort of problem but I keep going for those moments when everything comes together with the roof down and the sun up. I just don't seem to get enough time to enjoy it before the next thing goes wrong. Cry me a river!!
Everyone else's car at Gaydon started first time, no problem. Mine has always taken a while and needs about 3 seconds or more of turning over to start. Then the mechanical fuel injection seems to take an eternity before the engine settles to its normal tone. I normally sit there for around 30 seconds or more to get the thing to settle to a comfortable rhythm before moving off.
Always some sort of problem but I keep going for those moments when everything comes together with the roof down and the sun up. I just don't seem to get enough time to enjoy it before the next thing goes wrong. Cry me a river!! Hi Pierce
I would have someone wire up a fan over-ride with a switch on your dash (mine is in the cowl under the steering wheel) so you can command the fan to come on before it reaches 90 if you want...
It sounds like you need your radiator fixed though as said above Rad Weld should not be relied on - consider it a temporary get you home fix - no more... If your rad is blocked then the airflow through it will not cool the contents and you will soon over-heat. If that has been going on for any length of time it could be that the fan has been running constantly and has worn out
As for your starting routine, I turn the key to the first position to hear the pump prime for a second or so before turning the engine... maybe you are doing it in one and turning the engine before the fuel has pressurised ?
Nice to see you and Harry Potter at SCH... its not often we lesser mortals get to rub shoulders with the Hoy-polloy
K
are you sure the whining is coming from the pump ? it sounded like it was coming from about 6 inches in front of the passenger side headrest when I heard it
I would have someone wire up a fan over-ride with a switch on your dash (mine is in the cowl under the steering wheel) so you can command the fan to come on before it reaches 90 if you want...
It sounds like you need your radiator fixed though as said above Rad Weld should not be relied on - consider it a temporary get you home fix - no more... If your rad is blocked then the airflow through it will not cool the contents and you will soon over-heat. If that has been going on for any length of time it could be that the fan has been running constantly and has worn out
As for your starting routine, I turn the key to the first position to hear the pump prime for a second or so before turning the engine... maybe you are doing it in one and turning the engine before the fuel has pressurised ?
Nice to see you and Harry Potter at SCH... its not often we lesser mortals get to rub shoulders with the Hoy-polloy
K
are you sure the whining is coming from the pump ? it sounded like it was coming from about 6 inches in front of the passenger side headrest when I heard it And IIRC you were asking about some of these to replace some of yours...
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TVR-S1-ORIGINAL-ALLY-WHEELS-...
K ;
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TVR-S1-ORIGINAL-ALLY-WHEELS-...
K ;
The Stiglet said:
... as the temperature went through the roof ....
Later you say it has never been in the red. Mine runs just below the red and touches the bottom end of the red when the fan kicks in. I think others are like this as well. So maybe what you are seeing is normal? Sorry can't help with other problems, but good luck
Mine also runs around the 90 mark, creeps towards the red and the fan cuts in. An overide switch is an excellent idea, fitted one to a Spitfire I owned many moons ago having installed a Kenlowe fan. Radweld is a good get you home option but not so good for long term use, get a new radiator for piece of mind.
Regarding the starting issue, my car was parked next to yours at SCH (blue work in progress car!!)and like you thought i'd be there turning it over until it caught then wait for things to settle down. It just so happened I filled up before the event with tesco 99 octane, since then car has always started first turn of the key....maybe coincidence but even after a week on the drive started first turn of the key.
Regarding the starting issue, my car was parked next to yours at SCH (blue work in progress car!!)and like you thought i'd be there turning it over until it caught then wait for things to settle down. It just so happened I filled up before the event with tesco 99 octane, since then car has always started first turn of the key....maybe coincidence but even after a week on the drive started first turn of the key.
Pierce,
Almost certainly the radiator needs replacing or re-coring. When refitted, you have to be careful to ensure the system is thoroughly bled. Loosen the top radiator hose connection to the radiator and continue to fill the header tank until no more air escapes. As has been said, the engines are extremely tough.
My car made a screeching sound and cut out in a simialr manner to yours for a year or two. My missus eventually said to me..."whats that funny noise?" to which I said..."shut up stupid woman". About two days later the fuel pump failed...doh! I bought a replacement from a scrappy and that failed about 6 months later, so I bought a new one for about £55-00 from a local motor factors. They are a commonly available Bosch pump for a Ford Sierra/Capri.
You fuel starvation could be fuel vapourisation, which these engines are prone to, especially if it is all getting a bit hot under the hood. You can fit a fuel cooling radiator, and wrap your fuel lines in insulation matting.
I have never been brave enough to drive mine abroad for the above reasons, which is silly really because now I have the cooling and fuel supply sorted, touch wood, its extremely reliable.
Almost certainly the radiator needs replacing or re-coring. When refitted, you have to be careful to ensure the system is thoroughly bled. Loosen the top radiator hose connection to the radiator and continue to fill the header tank until no more air escapes. As has been said, the engines are extremely tough.
My car made a screeching sound and cut out in a simialr manner to yours for a year or two. My missus eventually said to me..."whats that funny noise?" to which I said..."shut up stupid woman". About two days later the fuel pump failed...doh! I bought a replacement from a scrappy and that failed about 6 months later, so I bought a new one for about £55-00 from a local motor factors. They are a commonly available Bosch pump for a Ford Sierra/Capri.
You fuel starvation could be fuel vapourisation, which these engines are prone to, especially if it is all getting a bit hot under the hood. You can fit a fuel cooling radiator, and wrap your fuel lines in insulation matting.
I have never been brave enough to drive mine abroad for the above reasons, which is silly really because now I have the cooling and fuel supply sorted, touch wood, its extremely reliable.
Check the fan is working, as said just connect a wire between the two connectors that go to the otter switch. Should be on the top hose near the rad. Ignition on and the fan should work. If the fans ok check the otter swich - run the car up to temp and leave a short while the fan should come on. If not the switch has failed.
If the pumps making a noise its worn and needs replacing.
If the pumps making a noise its worn and needs replacing.
Nice to see you and Harry Potter at SCH... its not often we lesser mortals get to rub shoulders with the Hoy-polloy
K
are you sure the whining is coming from the pump ? it sounded like it was coming from about 6 inches in front of the passenger side headrest when I heard it [/quote]
The name Harry Potter has firmly stuck but he still remains the only person I have ever seen who could fall asleep in a TVR at a certain speed on the motorway!! I am in awe!
To everyone, thank you all very much for the advice. I'm 'glad' the blue S1 has similar starting issues as I reckon the 2.9 V6 really is quite different to ours and it is nice to have some like for like comparison. The sound in particular. Just seems a bit more solid and sophisticated - but I like the 2.8's howl! Might try that higher octane trick as well as Kevin's starting procedure - I really hope I'm not stupid enough to be turning it too quickly without the fuel pressurising properly. Would be making a name for myself as a bit of a plonker...
Okay so is the consensus to go for a recore or a new radiator? I will check the fan properly but I think that works and it is the actual radiator that is the problem. I have noticed the water going down so I think it must be dripping out of the radiator - haven't see it deposited on the road but to be fair, haven't been looking for anything as all was good until recently.
I really like the idea of secondary switch to put the fan on. Should I upgrade to a kenlowe/do you need to, to put the switch in? I just worry as there is always lots of traffic in London and being caught stationary often can't be too good for it.
Fuel vaporisation
eek: Thanks guys!
You shouldnt need another fan if yours is working OK, just a wire to a switch so you can switch yours on manually. One other thought, if your fan is fitted in front of the radiator it should be Blowing through the radiator in the direction of the engine, if (like mine) its fitted behind the radiator it should be sucking air through the radiator - again in the direction of the engine... if its not doing that then it will be working against the airflow from the grill/ducts... make sure someone has not wired this up wrongly in its past ownership.
Definitely have your radiator re-cored.
Now... and wait for the howls of protest which way around do you have the caps on your swirl tank and expansion tank ? in my experience, having thenm the wrong way around deposited half my coolant onto the road when she became hot... YOU SHOULD HAVE THE PRESSURE CAP ON THE SWIRL TANK ... (pause for effect)
good luck and what about those wheels ?
K
Definitely have your radiator re-cored.
Now... and wait for the howls of protest
which way around do you have the caps on your swirl tank and expansion tank ? in my experience, having thenm the wrong way around deposited half my coolant onto the road when she became hot... YOU SHOULD HAVE THE PRESSURE CAP ON THE SWIRL TANK ... (pause for effect)good luck and what about those wheels ?
K
Edited by ketvrin on Tuesday 16th June 12:51
One thing I fitted to mine quite early into owning it is a Revotec adjustable fan switch. It is incorperated into a small section of pipe which you can place in the run of the top hose. I fitted one as my car was originally getting to just shy of red before the fan cut in.
Anyway, it costs about 40 quid, and allows you to set the fan cut in temp pretty much anywhere from 50 degrees to 120 (I think). Mine is set to come on just as the needle touches 90 deg, and it works perfectly.
I did have to be quite imaginative with the wiring due to the way it's integral realy is wired, but I now have this working as the usual fan control. If it fails, then the car still has the original temperature switch in circuit to give back up.
My cr has never overheated (i.e. got over 90) despite some longish spells in traffic on hot days.
The pressure cap on mine is on the swirl tank....never lost a drop of water in over a year now, touch wood (at least since I resoldered the swirl tank neck).
Cheers
Ant
Anyway, it costs about 40 quid, and allows you to set the fan cut in temp pretty much anywhere from 50 degrees to 120 (I think). Mine is set to come on just as the needle touches 90 deg, and it works perfectly.
I did have to be quite imaginative with the wiring due to the way it's integral realy is wired, but I now have this working as the usual fan control. If it fails, then the car still has the original temperature switch in circuit to give back up.
My cr has never overheated (i.e. got over 90) despite some longish spells in traffic on hot days.
The pressure cap on mine is on the swirl tank....never lost a drop of water in over a year now, touch wood (at least since I resoldered the swirl tank neck).
Cheers
Ant
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