Suspension - your thoughts
Discussion
People,
I am planning to change the suspension on my S3 over the Autumn as far as I know the current suspension is orginal.I intend to change the upper ball joints and then shocks and springs etc.
I will probably do the work myself and then have it set up by a professional.
What are my options?
I enjoy spirted driving on the road but dont intend to do track days, do I need fully adjustable suspension?
Can you get a non adjustable option?
Budget? Suppliers? Experiances?
Thanks Gary
I am planning to change the suspension on my S3 over the Autumn as far as I know the current suspension is orginal.I intend to change the upper ball joints and then shocks and springs etc.
I will probably do the work myself and then have it set up by a professional.
What are my options?
I enjoy spirted driving on the road but dont intend to do track days, do I need fully adjustable suspension?
Can you get a non adjustable option?
Budget? Suppliers? Experiances?
Thanks Gary
Jed-S said:
Pretty much all you an get is adjustable suspension and you'll want that on our lousy roads anyway.
When I get my car back form the engineering co (having a custom exhaust fitted) we could meet up you could see how the basic GAZ things compare to your shocks.
Jed
What Jed omitted to mention was that he's running on stiffer springs than the standard Gaz option, and in my opinion (having driven his car) they give a far more supple ride (I've got the standard Gaz option) and I'll be upgrading my springs this Winter for sure.When I get my car back form the engineering co (having a custom exhaust fitted) we could meet up you could see how the basic GAZ things compare to your shocks.
Jed
Regards,
Graham
Sadly, there doesn't appear to be much in the way of an option for non-adjustable dampers for the S-Series.
I say sadly because unless you are going to do serious track work, are you really going to adjust your dampers once you've found a setting you like?
The reason for aftermarket dampers typically being adjustable is because:
a)It's more marketable as a "performance" product (after all, race cars have adjustable dampers)
b)It means the manufacturer doesn't have to optimise the valving for their product to suit different vehicle models. (This takes a lot of upfront time and effort rebuilding and testing damper valve specs - car manufacturers wil typically do hundreds of changes during the tuning process).
The advantage of a non-adjustable damper with optimised valving are:
a) less complexity and hence probably better durability
b) lower cost
c) potential better (more optimised) damping characteristics as changing valve components offers greater control over the damper characteristics than most (all?) adjustment systems.
Personally I would like to be able to buy a well engineered non-adjustable damper from the likes of Bilstein (who have proven experience of producing hundreds of thousands of dampers to consistent standards and to meet the high durability expectations of large car manufacturers).
However, I guess there just isn't enough business in the aftermarket for them to be interested in the cars like the S - Series.
It would be nice if someone like Nitron would spend a bit of time developing an optimum valve spec for the S and sell it as a non-adjustable product at a reasonable (appologies to Nitron if they already do... I'll be along with my order fairly soon!!).
I say sadly because unless you are going to do serious track work, are you really going to adjust your dampers once you've found a setting you like?
The reason for aftermarket dampers typically being adjustable is because:
a)It's more marketable as a "performance" product (after all, race cars have adjustable dampers)
b)It means the manufacturer doesn't have to optimise the valving for their product to suit different vehicle models. (This takes a lot of upfront time and effort rebuilding and testing damper valve specs - car manufacturers wil typically do hundreds of changes during the tuning process).
The advantage of a non-adjustable damper with optimised valving are:
a) less complexity and hence probably better durability
b) lower cost
c) potential better (more optimised) damping characteristics as changing valve components offers greater control over the damper characteristics than most (all?) adjustment systems.
Personally I would like to be able to buy a well engineered non-adjustable damper from the likes of Bilstein (who have proven experience of producing hundreds of thousands of dampers to consistent standards and to meet the high durability expectations of large car manufacturers).
However, I guess there just isn't enough business in the aftermarket for them to be interested in the cars like the S - Series.
It would be nice if someone like Nitron would spend a bit of time developing an optimum valve spec for the S and sell it as a non-adjustable product at a reasonable (appologies to Nitron if they already do... I'll be along with my order fairly soon!!).
I have messed around with all sorts of spring rates, and have loads spare in my garage now as a result. I have ended up with a pretty extreme set up, but that`s because I like to do track days etc. The best compromise spring rate I found for the gaz shocks is 400lb/in, although you are recommended to have a slightly higher spring rate on the front...although I have not. You are welcome to borrow some different rates to see what you think suits you best...if you lke any then you`re welcome to have them for a small renumeration.
Gaz shocks are a good budget adjustable shock adsorber. As has been said previously, manufacturers spend vast sums develoving valving to give high speed compliability for all those little ripples, but lower speed damping for the large undulations. People like Nitron make adjustable shocks which have this sort of adjustability, but they are loads of money (£500-00 ea or more!), and you have to know what your are donig when setting them up....so at the end of the day, GAZ (£70-80.00 ea) are a good compromise.
Once you have fitted new springs and shocks (which is pretty simple) you`d be well advised to have it all set up corretly by someone like Guglielmi motorsport. My S1 is there now having a roll bar fitted, and its likely to be fitted with S3 rear trailing arm and a full set up.....we`ll have to have little norfolk meet up soon.
Mark
Gaz shocks are a good budget adjustable shock adsorber. As has been said previously, manufacturers spend vast sums develoving valving to give high speed compliability for all those little ripples, but lower speed damping for the large undulations. People like Nitron make adjustable shocks which have this sort of adjustability, but they are loads of money (£500-00 ea or more!), and you have to know what your are donig when setting them up....so at the end of the day, GAZ (£70-80.00 ea) are a good compromise.
Once you have fitted new springs and shocks (which is pretty simple) you`d be well advised to have it all set up corretly by someone like Guglielmi motorsport. My S1 is there now having a roll bar fitted, and its likely to be fitted with S3 rear trailing arm and a full set up.....we`ll have to have little norfolk meet up soon.
Mark
Which roll bar are your fitting. I have an S1 and wondered what "all" the suspension improvement were on the later cars. I was hoping it was just ARB's and different spring rates, I know the trailing arms are different but is the actual suspension geometry different (e.g. camber gain).
If buying new Gaz's is there a difference between a s1 and say an s3 coilover?
Cheers
Mike
If buying new Gaz's is there a difference between a s1 and say an s3 coilover?
Cheers
Mike
I think you will find that the later S4 had the V8S chassis which is stiffer and has a wider wheel base. The difference in the trailing arms you mention on the S1 to S3 variants allows the later cars to have adjustment by shimming the joint in the trailing arm for toe-in etc. The angle of incline on the rear shocks on the later chassis/trailing arms differs from the early S1/S1.5. This change supposedly reduced the nose rising under heavy excelleration and likewise diving under heavy breaking. I modified early a pair of S2 trailing arms (couldn't afford new trailing arms) to fit my S3 chassis and in doing so noted that the bottom shock mounting point is further back on the S3, and the upright post (which the top of the shock is bolted to) on the S3 chassis is at more of an incline than on the earlier S2 chassis. Not much difference apart from that though.
Edited by TonupS2 on Tuesday 11th August 16:57
I am reading with interest as i need to change them on my S3 as the ride is now rubbish on less than perfect UK roads.
I do the odd track day but mainly spirited A/B route driving and would like to smooth the ride out to take in some 'touring' perhaps.
I've seen AVo's for £90 a corner plus £25 for springs = £460 all in OR the GAZ coil overs for £500.00. Are these even comparable?
Probably worth changing all rubbers for poly ones while your at it.
Has anybody chosen lower springs as the ride looks to high after being used to sagging springs?
I do the odd track day but mainly spirited A/B route driving and would like to smooth the ride out to take in some 'touring' perhaps.
I've seen AVo's for £90 a corner plus £25 for springs = £460 all in OR the GAZ coil overs for £500.00. Are these even comparable?
Probably worth changing all rubbers for poly ones while your at it.
Has anybody chosen lower springs as the ride looks to high after being used to sagging springs?
I recently had Gaz Golds put on my V8 by Dulford Automotive. After finally getting around to softening them up myself, I have to say they are much much better than the AVOs I used to have.
Perhaps have a chat with Richard at Dulford about it? They run TVR Car Parts too, so advice and parts in the same place.
Perhaps have a chat with Richard at Dulford about it? They run TVR Car Parts too, so advice and parts in the same place.
I bought a set of GAZ Gold pro at the recent S Club Gaydon meet. Speak to Derek on tel. no. 07795 293018 or email to enquiries@gazshocks.com. He sometimes looks in and posts on here, I think he knows the S very well and can also do the fitting/set up. ps I think the pros are or were on a good introductory price for the first hundred or so when they first come out. From what I can make out the pros have improved fluid/insides and anodised finish.
Edited by TonupS2 on Tuesday 11th August 16:31
NorfolkSteve said:
Sadly, there doesn't appear to be much in the way of an option for non-adjustable dampers for the S-Series.
I say sadly because unless you are going to do serious track work, are you really going to adjust your dampers once you've found a setting you like?
The reason for aftermarket dampers typically being adjustable is because:
a)It's more marketable as a "performance" product (after all, race cars have adjustable dampers)
b)It means the manufacturer doesn't have to optimise the valving for their product to suit different vehicle models. (This takes a lot of upfront time and effort rebuilding and testing damper valve specs - car manufacturers wil typically do hundreds of changes during the tuning process).
The advantage of a non-adjustable damper with optimised valving are:
a) less complexity and hence probably better durability
b) lower cost
c) potential better (more optimised) damping characteristics as changing valve components offers greater control over the damper characteristics than most (all?) adjustment systems.
Personally I would like to be able to buy a well engineered non-adjustable damper from the likes of Bilstein (who have proven experience of producing hundreds of thousands of dampers to consistent standards and to meet the high durability expectations of large car manufacturers).
However, I guess there just isn't enough business in the aftermarket for them to be interested in the cars like the S - Series.
It would be nice if someone like Nitron would spend a bit of time developing an optimum valve spec for the S and sell it as a non-adjustable product at a reasonable (appologies to Nitron if they already do... I'll be along with my order fairly soon!!).
You can buy Billies for your S but guess what, they are expensive and TVR were not deemed important enough to do specific valving until Neil Anderson got the Saggyarse shocks revalved. I would suggest that Gaz,Nitron and Ohlins all offer adjustable systems that have been tailored to suit the cars. I do not understand a reluctance to have a car set up by an expert to suit individual needs on damping/spring rates or indeed ride height.I say sadly because unless you are going to do serious track work, are you really going to adjust your dampers once you've found a setting you like?
The reason for aftermarket dampers typically being adjustable is because:
a)It's more marketable as a "performance" product (after all, race cars have adjustable dampers)
b)It means the manufacturer doesn't have to optimise the valving for their product to suit different vehicle models. (This takes a lot of upfront time and effort rebuilding and testing damper valve specs - car manufacturers wil typically do hundreds of changes during the tuning process).
The advantage of a non-adjustable damper with optimised valving are:
a) less complexity and hence probably better durability
b) lower cost
c) potential better (more optimised) damping characteristics as changing valve components offers greater control over the damper characteristics than most (all?) adjustment systems.
Personally I would like to be able to buy a well engineered non-adjustable damper from the likes of Bilstein (who have proven experience of producing hundreds of thousands of dampers to consistent standards and to meet the high durability expectations of large car manufacturers).
However, I guess there just isn't enough business in the aftermarket for them to be interested in the cars like the S - Series.
It would be nice if someone like Nitron would spend a bit of time developing an optimum valve spec for the S and sell it as a non-adjustable product at a reasonable (appologies to Nitron if they already do... I'll be along with my order fairly soon!!).
CTE said:
I have messed around with all sorts of spring rates, and have loads spare in my garage now as a result. I have ended up with a pretty extreme set up, but that`s because I like to do track days etc. The best compromise spring rate I found for the gaz shocks is 400lb/in, although you are recommended to have a slightly higher spring rate on the front...although I have not. You are welcome to borrow some different rates to see what you think suits you best...if you lke any then you`re welcome to have them for a small renumeration.
Gaz shocks are a good budget adjustable shock adsorber. As has been said previously, manufacturers spend vast sums develoving valving to give high speed compliability for all those little ripples, but lower speed damping for the large undulations. People like Nitron make adjustable shocks which have this sort of adjustability, but they are loads of money (£500-00 ea or more!), and you have to know what your are donig when setting them up....so at the end of the day, GAZ (£70-80.00 ea) are a good compromise.
Once you have fitted new springs and shocks (which is pretty simple) you`d be well advised to have it all set up corretly by someone like Guglielmi motorsport. My S1 is there now having a roll bar fitted, and its likely to be fitted with S3 rear trailing arm and a full set up.....we`ll have to have little norfolk meet up soon.
Mark
I don't think that you need to go past 400lb on the front unless you are a trackday star and I have found that going over 300lb on the rear is not nice on B roads, no I have stuck with 375Lb front and 300lb rears ever since Guglielmi did the first testing for me and unless the car is tracked loads I dont think my advice would change Gaz shocks are a good budget adjustable shock adsorber. As has been said previously, manufacturers spend vast sums develoving valving to give high speed compliability for all those little ripples, but lower speed damping for the large undulations. People like Nitron make adjustable shocks which have this sort of adjustability, but they are loads of money (£500-00 ea or more!), and you have to know what your are donig when setting them up....so at the end of the day, GAZ (£70-80.00 ea) are a good compromise.
Once you have fitted new springs and shocks (which is pretty simple) you`d be well advised to have it all set up corretly by someone like Guglielmi motorsport. My S1 is there now having a roll bar fitted, and its likely to be fitted with S3 rear trailing arm and a full set up.....we`ll have to have little norfolk meet up soon.
Mark
Ab Shocks said:
NorfolkSteve said:
Sadly, there doesn't appear to be much in the way of an option for non-adjustable dampers for the S-Series.
I say sadly because unless you are going to do serious track work, are you really going to adjust your dampers once you've found a setting you like?
The reason for aftermarket dampers typically being adjustable is because:
a)It's more marketable as a "performance" product (after all, race cars have adjustable dampers)
b)It means the manufacturer doesn't have to optimise the valving for their product to suit different vehicle models. (This takes a lot of upfront time and effort rebuilding and testing damper valve specs - car manufacturers wil typically do hundreds of changes during the tuning process).
The advantage of a non-adjustable damper with optimised valving are:
a) less complexity and hence probably better durability
b) lower cost
c) potential better (more optimised) damping characteristics as changing valve components offers greater control over the damper characteristics than most (all?) adjustment systems.
Personally I would like to be able to buy a well engineered non-adjustable damper from the likes of Bilstein (who have proven experience of producing hundreds of thousands of dampers to consistent standards and to meet the high durability expectations of large car manufacturers).
However, I guess there just isn't enough business in the aftermarket for them to be interested in the cars like the S - Series.
It would be nice if someone like Nitron would spend a bit of time developing an optimum valve spec for the S and sell it as a non-adjustable product at a reasonable (appologies to Nitron if they already do... I'll be along with my order fairly soon!!).
You can buy Billies for your S but guess what, they are expensive and TVR were not deemed important enough to do specific valving until Neil Anderson got the Saggyarse shocks revalved. I would suggest that Gaz,Nitron and Ohlins all offer adjustable systems that have been tailored to suit the cars. I do not understand a reluctance to have a car set up by an expert to suit individual needs on damping/spring rates or indeed ride height.I say sadly because unless you are going to do serious track work, are you really going to adjust your dampers once you've found a setting you like?
The reason for aftermarket dampers typically being adjustable is because:
a)It's more marketable as a "performance" product (after all, race cars have adjustable dampers)
b)It means the manufacturer doesn't have to optimise the valving for their product to suit different vehicle models. (This takes a lot of upfront time and effort rebuilding and testing damper valve specs - car manufacturers wil typically do hundreds of changes during the tuning process).
The advantage of a non-adjustable damper with optimised valving are:
a) less complexity and hence probably better durability
b) lower cost
c) potential better (more optimised) damping characteristics as changing valve components offers greater control over the damper characteristics than most (all?) adjustment systems.
Personally I would like to be able to buy a well engineered non-adjustable damper from the likes of Bilstein (who have proven experience of producing hundreds of thousands of dampers to consistent standards and to meet the high durability expectations of large car manufacturers).
However, I guess there just isn't enough business in the aftermarket for them to be interested in the cars like the S - Series.
It would be nice if someone like Nitron would spend a bit of time developing an optimum valve spec for the S and sell it as a non-adjustable product at a reasonable (appologies to Nitron if they already do... I'll be along with my order fairly soon!!).
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