Another starting problem...

[page3]

Hi all,

My S seems to be unhappy at the moment and I really could do with advise of where to look next. I'm not particually good with car machanics but learning fast!

I went to start the S yesterday morning after a week and it took a long time turning over before starting - never done that before - always starts straight away. Took it for a nice long drive, but today the same thing happened - a good 15 seconds of wurring before she burst into life.

Once started the voltmeter registers 14 volts and she runs smoothly.

I've checked the spark plugs and battery - both which appear to be ok.

Could it be the coil or sticking starter motor? If I try to start and then switch off the ignition and then try again it seems to start.

Looking for suggestions of what to do next? I could buy a new coil and try that or a new starter motor? The coil looks like a job I could manage but not sure about the starter motor? Or could it indeed be the battery...?

Any help appreciated. Obviously I've done lots of searching here.

[pies]

Is the battery fully charged ?

Check the voltage before starting

[page3]

Ok, battery seems fine voltage-wise, but after prying off the chamber covers I've found its totally empty! So, filled it up with distilled water and will take the car for a drive and see.

Thanks Pies.

[page3]

Update: Anyone know what's considered to be a suitable drive to charge a battery? I want to make sure I've given it every chance to recharge before buying a new battery.

Does using lights / stereo make that much of a difference to the charging time?

Cheers.

[z_chromozone]

Probably not the battery IMO, if it turns over at the usual rpm. If the starter was sticking you would hear a click of the solonoid, but not get the thing turning over. In the damp / cold it is more likely condensation on the coil / HT leads / dizzy cap etc causing a weak spark.

Z

[page3]

Thanks for your help. Today was my first opportunity to take the car for a drive since filling up the battery a couple of days ago. It started OK - a little sluggish but not as bad as before. I then went for a drive of about 25 miles or so, with the lights, stereo and heater all off. I don't have a battery charger or anywhere to plug one in (without removing the battery and putting it in my hall) - so driving the car is the easiest way for me to charge the battery, if I can get away with that.

The Voltmeter displayed 14v the whole time (except a slight waggle when indicating). I'll see if that makes a difference now that the battery has water.

I have been mostly doing short drives, with lights, stereo and heat all on recently.

(Edited to add more info)

>> Edited by page3 on Tuesday 13th January 12:54

[andyf007]

The problem with the starting delay could be caused by the fuel pump priming. If your battery is a bit weak then it could take 1 or 2 seconds from turning the ignition on until you have good pressure in the fuel rail. If you simply turn the key straight to the starter without giving it time to pressurise, then it's a pig to start (the starter takes most of the battery power). When you switched off and back on again it completed the pressurisation and it fired quicker. It's a good idea to turn the key on, then give it a few secs before turning the starter.

You could also have a 'lazy' starter motor.

Charging shouldn't be a problem if you can get a good 30 min drive every few days. Lots of starting with very little driving will cause a battery to fail much quicker than normal.

Andy

[nzdave]

If your car has a 2.8 Ford with Bosch K Jetronic injection the starting problem could be related to a lack of fuel pressure when you try to start it. The fuel pressure should remain long after you stop the car and if there is no pressure it will take time to pump it up. There is a device called an accumulator that is situated in the left rear wheel arch that is supposed to keep the pressure up. If the fuel is leaking back through the pump or through the relief back to the tank it will take time to start.
You can check if there is any pressure by cracking open a fuel fitting at the front filter but be careful as fuel may spray out.

[page3]

Ok people, another update:

I've not been able to drive the car since I topped up the battery / took it for a 20 mile blat.

Tried tonight.

Attempt 1:
click, click, click, click, click - a fairly loud quickly repeating clicking noise. No start.

Turned ignition off. Waited a few seconds.

Attempt 2: Started straight away - no lag or anything.

So, that's a sticking started motor then? Sorry to sound thick - been on support calls all day

Thanks for all your suggestions and explanations - I'm understanding a lot more about what goes on under the bonnet now New HT leads on order too - just in case.

[Psychobert]

Sounds like a sticking starter, but I';d need to hear it for sure. they also tend to make a noise like a spanner stirring a tin bucket full of washers if the drive has lost a gear..

Sounding to me like you have several small problems at once..

Lights will make a difference to charging the battery, but stereo shouldn't make much of a difference I think.

[Tripps]

I'd agree on the starter motor, as my day care is having the same issue at the moment in the cold.

Sometimes it starts first time, others you hear a ticking and will see the volts drop while (I presume) the motor is trying to drive but sticking internally.

I carry a hammer in the boot (as I'm too cheap to replace it as it's going soon!) and give the starter a gentle to coax in into life. With someone turning the ignition it happens straight away, otherwise its a pain in the arse, giving in a bash, turning the key and back again.

[Pies]

Tripps said:

I carry a hammer in the boot (as I'm too cheap to replace it as it's going soon!) and give the starter a gentle to coax in into life. .

Whats going ,not the "S" surely

[z_chromozone]

So you have decided that the battery is good and the starter is the problem. Before you decide to junk the starter and get another one, check the earths to the chassis (both from the battery and from the starter). I used to get a similar problem in my T3 and with the Golf in the past. Of course if you have a multimeter you can check the amps drawn at the starter, make sure that it is correctly rated though (mine only goes up to 10A).

Z

[andyf007]

z_chromozone said:

So you have decided that the battery is good and the starter is the problem. Before you decide to junk the starter and get another one, check the earths to the chassis (both from the battery and from the starter). I used to get a similar problem in my T3 and with the Golf in the past. Of course if you have a multimeter you can check the amps drawn at the starter, make sure that it is correctly rated though (mine only goes up to 10A). Z

This is a good idea Z. I've had similar too back in my murky past. A good simple test of this is to connect the one of the ends of a set of jump leads to the negative pole on the battery and the other end to a good bit of metal on the engine, then try turning it over. It could also be a fault on the positive side too, so start by making sure all the connections are good on the starter too.

Andy

[page3]

I will check the earthing points at the weekend, assuming the rain holds off.

Is this covered in the Bible? I remember seeing the earthing cable from the battery, but cannot remember seeing another one - probably looking in the wrong place.

By checking, do you mean I should disconnect, clean-up and then re-connect the earthing cables?

[Tripps]

Pies said:

Whats going ,not the "S" surely

No, the hairdresser-mobile, my old Celica. Even after considering many other TVRs I can't find a real reason to get rid of the S

Got a SEAT Cupra-R currently being made by some Spanish fellows for delivery in April. After all I need something sensible for my day to day driving