Swirl Pot seal / help
Discussion
Ok I have been doing the steam train impression in my car for a while now.. its better now the days are a little cooler but I still want to sort this. It all started when I swapped the swirl pot for a shiney one.. 
Reading a few threads it appears there is ofton a rubber seal between swirl pot and pressure cap..? True..? if this is the cas my new one doesn't appear to have one and I suspect as the pressure cap opens that rather than puch coolent into the expansion tank is is overflowing from the top of the swirl pot.
My question is this, if there should be a seal here, where can I get one from, is a rubber washer available in this size or do I just need a better fitting pressure cap..? are there any modern equivelents that will fit or do I need to concentrate on the old style one, should I bend the retaining tabs to make it a better fit..?
Any help greatfully recieved as I don't want to put the old swirlpot / cap combination back on (I cant actually find a seal on that one either and the old cap seems to be just as loose on the new swirlpot and the old one was.. and exhibits the same symptoms.
I am also curious how the coolent get back to the swirl pot from the expansion tank, it looks like some form of on way valve should be involved does anyone have a part number for a cap that works with retun feature ideally in SS but one that works will do for now.
Help... Cheers
Damian S3
Reading a few threads it appears there is ofton a rubber seal between swirl pot and pressure cap..? True..? if this is the cas my new one doesn't appear to have one and I suspect as the pressure cap opens that rather than puch coolent into the expansion tank is is overflowing from the top of the swirl pot.
My question is this, if there should be a seal here, where can I get one from, is a rubber washer available in this size or do I just need a better fitting pressure cap..? are there any modern equivelents that will fit or do I need to concentrate on the old style one, should I bend the retaining tabs to make it a better fit..?
Any help greatfully recieved as I don't want to put the old swirlpot / cap combination back on (I cant actually find a seal on that one either and the old cap seems to be just as loose on the new swirlpot and the old one was.. and exhibits the same symptoms.
I am also curious how the coolent get back to the swirl pot from the expansion tank, it looks like some form of on way valve should be involved does anyone have a part number for a cap that works with retun feature ideally in SS but one that works will do for now.
Help... Cheers
Damian S3
Many thanks for the help guys.. I was hopeing for a buy a QH rubber ring from my factors over the road, but will see what I can scrounge from the local tyre fitter..
in the mean time all other suggestions welcome.. should someone have identifed the rubber washer of my desires..
Cheers
Damian S3
in the mean time all other suggestions welcome.. should someone have identifed the rubber washer of my desires..
Cheers
Damian S3
The link below is to the QH site for rad caps, page 186 shows all the styles. I think the FC52 or FC53 is the correct one as it shows the rubber seal under the cap and also appears to have the tidal flow valve at the bottom. Mine is currently an FC56 with some innertube glued under the top which works fine.(on the swirl pot)
Rob.
http://www2.qha.com/catalogues/QH03-FC.pdf
Edited to correct ref numbers.
Rob.
http://www2.qha.com/catalogues/QH03-FC.pdf
Edited to correct ref numbers.
Edited by Griffinr on Wednesday 27th October 13:27
Another thought is that the swirl pot neck needs a long reach pressure cap (unless you have the plain cap there but let's not go into that!). A standard reach pressure cap might not compress the pressure spring enough (or at all!) so the system might not pressurise properly - so it would then run to hot, and also blow out excessive coolant into the expansion tank (and not suck it back in properly as it cooled).
techbotics said:
Many thanks for the help guys.. I was hopeing for a buy a QH rubber ring from my factors over the road, but will see what I can scrounge from the local tyre fitter..
in the mean time all other suggestions welcome.. should someone have identifed the rubber washer of my desires..
Cheers
Damian S3
I have some already cut to size , email me thro my profile and I will send you one free and for gratis in the mean time all other suggestions welcome.. should someone have identifed the rubber washer of my desires..
Cheers
Damian S3
Rower
Just been to pick up the new FC53... nice and new but no seal as indicated in the QH product guide..
So ordered another to see if that comes with one..? But motor factor says it probably won't as this one is obviously sparkling new. infact the one offered looks exactly the same as the one I am currently running.. hmm.. this must be the issue as when I checked I have only lost maybe an inch or so of water in the last month.
I hate that when she gets hot the console guages start to get condensation in the.. cant be good for the guages either..
Guy you have mail..
Thanks I have high hopes the rubber seal will do the trick as the rest of the cooling system is in very good condition.
Cheers
Damian
So ordered another to see if that comes with one..? But motor factor says it probably won't as this one is obviously sparkling new. infact the one offered looks exactly the same as the one I am currently running.. hmm.. this must be the issue as when I checked I have only lost maybe an inch or so of water in the last month.
I hate that when she gets hot the console guages start to get condensation in the.. cant be good for the guages either..
Guy you have mail..
Thanks I have high hopes the rubber seal will do the trick as the rest of the cooling system is in very good condition.Cheers
Damian
Ooo please do.. I went home at lunchtime and dusted off the old TVR swirlpot and although it doesn't have a rubber seal, it seems to have a ridge on the underside of the filler neck which performs this "pull down" function as described above IIRC.
The new one does not.. although the cap is not really that loose. Unless the rubber seal works it looks like I will have to remove this and send back to the supplier who I won't mention until I have discussed this with.
If I was going to have one made I think I would swap to the screw down type filler cap and also have a sight tube fitted so I can see the water level without looking down the neck.
I am also not convinced either of my caps is a Genuine QH so I may well purchase the one from my factors as I have read genuine ones seal better anyway.. for £4.50 its probable worth it.
Thanks again everyone.. I am determined to sort this even if I have to replace the swirl pot again.
Damian S3
The new one does not.. although the cap is not really that loose. Unless the rubber seal works it looks like I will have to remove this and send back to the supplier who I won't mention until I have discussed this with.
If I was going to have one made I think I would swap to the screw down type filler cap and also have a sight tube fitted so I can see the water level without looking down the neck.
I am also not convinced either of my caps is a Genuine QH so I may well purchase the one from my factors as I have read genuine ones seal better anyway.. for £4.50 its probable worth it.
Thanks again everyone.. I am determined to sort this even if I have to replace the swirl pot again.
Damian S3
Right the new FC53 still has no rubber seal and seems to fit worse than the copy one I removed..
Investigating futher this seems all to be down to the brass filler neck design on the shiney swirl pot.. I am unhappy with this for 2 reasons, (1) it simply doesn't pull the cap tight enough, and (2) it has no stop on it so the cap gets tight (ish) and then keeps spinning round to open egain.. this concerns me with regard to engine vibration etc causing it to come undone and also the faff involved in closing the cap to the tightest position..
Actually I am pretty uninpressed with the whole swirlpot design so will go back to the manufacturer to see if I can swap for a refund or better item.
The rubber gasket may fix the leaking when I get it but its still pretty poor.
Can anyone reccomend a custom or TVS3 specific swirl pot manufacturer who I can approach.
Cheers
Damian S3..
Investigating futher this seems all to be down to the brass filler neck design on the shiney swirl pot.. I am unhappy with this for 2 reasons, (1) it simply doesn't pull the cap tight enough, and (2) it has no stop on it so the cap gets tight (ish) and then keeps spinning round to open egain.. this concerns me with regard to engine vibration etc causing it to come undone and also the faff involved in closing the cap to the tightest position..
Actually I am pretty uninpressed with the whole swirlpot design so will go back to the manufacturer to see if I can swap for a refund or better item.
The rubber gasket may fix the leaking when I get it but its still pretty poor.
Can anyone reccomend a custom or TVS3 specific swirl pot manufacturer who I can approach.
Cheers
Damian S3..
Hi Damian
TVR Car Parts have an alloy swirl pot available http://www.tvrcarparts.com/pages/partdetail.asp?id...
Steve Reid of Stebve Reid Classics thegamekeeper has had stainless steel available and I have one of these. Have had a very minor issue with coolant seeping out from under the cap but by gently bending the bress lip down and using vaseline to ensure a smooth lock down now seems OK. I did originally have the pressure cap on the swirl pot and I think the spring pressure seems to have caused the problem originally. Using the non pressure cap is certainly better.
Bur experience has shown that both ways round work. I am convinced however that if the pressure cap is on the swirl pot then you do have to sure to use the correct cap otherwise as the engine cools the coolant isnt sucked back in the swirl pot from the expansion tank. I think that any cap without the rubber seal above the spring isnt designed to form an air tight seal and probably wont suck coolant back from expansion tank.
This one should do the trick http://www.cbsonline.co.uk/radiator-cap-radcapr--r... but I cant gauarantee it, why not have a chat to TVR Car Parts and get Neills advice.
Meanwhile this http://www.cbsonline.co.uk/aluminium-radiator--nec... welded to your existing swirl pot (as long as its alloy) would solve the immediate problem
TVR Car Parts have an alloy swirl pot available http://www.tvrcarparts.com/pages/partdetail.asp?id...
Steve Reid of Stebve Reid Classics thegamekeeper has had stainless steel available and I have one of these. Have had a very minor issue with coolant seeping out from under the cap but by gently bending the bress lip down and using vaseline to ensure a smooth lock down now seems OK. I did originally have the pressure cap on the swirl pot and I think the spring pressure seems to have caused the problem originally. Using the non pressure cap is certainly better.
Bur experience has shown that both ways round work. I am convinced however that if the pressure cap is on the swirl pot then you do have to sure to use the correct cap otherwise as the engine cools the coolant isnt sucked back in the swirl pot from the expansion tank. I think that any cap without the rubber seal above the spring isnt designed to form an air tight seal and probably wont suck coolant back from expansion tank.
This one should do the trick http://www.cbsonline.co.uk/radiator-cap-radcapr--r... but I cant gauarantee it, why not have a chat to TVR Car Parts and get Neills advice.
Meanwhile this http://www.cbsonline.co.uk/aluminium-radiator--nec... welded to your existing swirl pot (as long as its alloy) would solve the immediate problem
techbotics said:
Right the new FC53 still has no rubber seal and seems to fit worse than the copy one I removed..
Investigating futher this seems all to be down to the brass filler neck design on the shiney swirl pot.. I am unhappy with this for 2 reasons, (1) it simply doesn't pull the cap tight enough...
Investigating futher this seems all to be down to the brass filler neck design on the shiney swirl pot.. I am unhappy with this for 2 reasons, (1) it simply doesn't pull the cap tight enough...
Gerald-TVR said:
I am convinced however that if the pressure cap is on the swirl pot then you do have to sure to use the correct cap otherwise as the engine cools the coolant isnt sucked back in the swirl pot from the expansion tank. I think that any cap without the rubber seal above the spring isnt designed to form an air tight seal and probably wont suck coolant back from expansion tank.
Ahem.2 days ago tvrgit said:
Another thought is that the swirl pot neck needs a long reach pressure cap (unless you have the plain cap there but let's not go into that!). A standard reach pressure cap might not compress the pressure spring enough (or at all!) so the system might not pressurise properly - so it would then run too hot, and also blow out excessive coolant into the expansion tank (and not suck it back in properly as it cooled).
2 days ago tvrgit said:
Another thought is that the swirl pot neck needs a long reach pressure cap (unless you have the plain cap there but let's not go into that!). A standard reach pressure cap might not compress the pressure spring enough (or at all!) so the system might not pressurise properly - so it would then run too hot, and also blow out excessive coolant into the expansion tank (and not suck it back in properly as it cooled).
In a nutshell. Thats pretty much as I remember it. I have a First Line FRC69, it's long reach and has the cap seal and poppet valve, ie all the features you need. Its been on for three years and works just fine:http://www.firstline.co.uk/op3/f_xref_show.php?act...
Incidently, has anyone noticed how the PH search function seems to be working again? There's pages of stuff on S series pressure caps if you want to confuse/bore yourself.
K
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