NIMBY's, HS2, rant!
Discussion
The local news tonight was amusing, they were complaining about a railway that might be built in 20!!! years time.
Talking about their young family growing up and their plans etc, their family will have moved out by the time it's built, if it's built!
Plant some trees, you can get ones over 60ft high! They have 20 years to grow nice and tall, some nice tall pines!
Sell your house, chances are the next owner won't be there in 20 years either, so won't care.
Oh you paid £££ to live in the countryside, but bought next to a major conurbation and existing central UK railway junction?
More like you bought in an expensive urban sprawl rural gap/green belt, very likely in an over-valued new-build rammed up next to a railway line or flood plain. Arghhh.
Complaining about progress, about their house values. But no thought about the prosperity of the country and generating jobs and promoting economic growth to give their numerous offspring more scope for jobs as they get older.
Anyone else feel some people need to get a bit of perspective? Just seems doom and gloom but all I can think is that it's great we are finally investing in infrastructure in this country (albeit maybe not ideal, I'd prefer to see a 300mph Maglev but hey ho)...
Bah!
Just makes me mad that when it comes down to it too many people are bloody NIMBY idiots. How can we progress when everyone wants to live in the past?
Jeez, I'd rather have a viable future and economy for our kids to live in, with good jobs and competitive industry/commerce etc, than retain a few house values for a few NIMBY's and stay in the dark ages.
Arghhh!
Talking about their young family growing up and their plans etc, their family will have moved out by the time it's built, if it's built!
Plant some trees, you can get ones over 60ft high! They have 20 years to grow nice and tall, some nice tall pines!
Sell your house, chances are the next owner won't be there in 20 years either, so won't care.
Oh you paid £££ to live in the countryside, but bought next to a major conurbation and existing central UK railway junction?
More like you bought in an expensive urban sprawl rural gap/green belt, very likely in an over-valued new-build rammed up next to a railway line or flood plain. Arghhh.
Complaining about progress, about their house values. But no thought about the prosperity of the country and generating jobs and promoting economic growth to give their numerous offspring more scope for jobs as they get older.
Anyone else feel some people need to get a bit of perspective? Just seems doom and gloom but all I can think is that it's great we are finally investing in infrastructure in this country (albeit maybe not ideal, I'd prefer to see a 300mph Maglev but hey ho)...
Bah!
Just makes me mad that when it comes down to it too many people are bloody NIMBY idiots. How can we progress when everyone wants to live in the past?
Jeez, I'd rather have a viable future and economy for our kids to live in, with good jobs and competitive industry/commerce etc, than retain a few house values for a few NIMBY's and stay in the dark ages.
Arghhh!
I'm not against HS2 but fail to see the need for it when the ECML and WCML are nowhere near capacity and the commute from Donny to Londonville is only 90 minutes anyway. I heard that it will be an hour and a quarter to The Smoke from Meadowhell when completed which is hardly worth the effort, in my opinion.
On the other hand, we really need to get more freight back on the rails and off the roads so if this helps pave the way for that then it does get my vote.
On the other hand, we really need to get more freight back on the rails and off the roads so if this helps pave the way for that then it does get my vote.
It runs near where I live too, well, it might, in 20 years... I'll be long gone by then I think.
I think the HS2 itself is questionable. I like the idea of 50mins of my day, or almost 2hrs if I go there and back, shaved off a Leeds > London run... BUT... since getting to Leeds to get the train is almost 1 hour both ways, maybe another 30mins leeway/taxi waiting time, AND time in London to get to where I want to be from Euston, then the overall difference is probably sub 20%... and in that case I struggle to see the point.
But all that aside, if it made complete sense, and promised real growth, real jobs, real potential for this country into 2050 and beyond... people would still fecking complain. I don't even know why they are given air time on the news.
If we listened to those people we'd all live in the dark ages
Dave
I think the HS2 itself is questionable. I like the idea of 50mins of my day, or almost 2hrs if I go there and back, shaved off a Leeds > London run... BUT... since getting to Leeds to get the train is almost 1 hour both ways, maybe another 30mins leeway/taxi waiting time, AND time in London to get to where I want to be from Euston, then the overall difference is probably sub 20%... and in that case I struggle to see the point.
But all that aside, if it made complete sense, and promised real growth, real jobs, real potential for this country into 2050 and beyond... people would still fecking complain. I don't even know why they are given air time on the news.
If we listened to those people we'd all live in the dark ages
Dave
I saw that and thought what a bunch of bellends! It's not as if they are really living in the countryside as that area is one of the most nondescript going, flat and featureless.
BUT I do wonder what the benefits of the HS2 will be. Another PHer said that it would free up the existing routes for more freight, if so then excellent, but it will be nothing but a failure if it doesn't achieve that.
If the thought is that shaving a fraction off the journey of London -bound suits is the key to our economic survival then there's some people who need their heads examining.
BUT I do wonder what the benefits of the HS2 will be. Another PHer said that it would free up the existing routes for more freight, if so then excellent, but it will be nothing but a failure if it doesn't achieve that.
If the thought is that shaving a fraction off the journey of London -bound suits is the key to our economic survival then there's some people who need their heads examining.
I think it's high time this country started seriously investing in Railways, HS2 should, as has been said, free up capacity for more Freight and shorter distance commuter stuff.
I use the East Coast route quiet a lot to get to London and the biggest pain is driving into York, I have to allow at least three quarters of an hour to get the 15 miles or so from Wetherby to York. If they built a station out of town at say at Colton Junction, it would save me roughly the time I'd save using HS2.
It was bound to attract the nimbies, that's partly why it will take 20 years. I mean it took the victorians about a quarter of that time to build their route to London, by hand FFS!.
When the route was announced, it occured to me it might be fairly close to where a guy I work with lives. So I logged on and looked, I was right it goes practically underneath his house in a shallow tunnel and pops out about 200 yards away.
He's only bought the place last year and spent a lot of time and money renovating it. He's no impressed.
I use the East Coast route quiet a lot to get to London and the biggest pain is driving into York, I have to allow at least three quarters of an hour to get the 15 miles or so from Wetherby to York. If they built a station out of town at say at Colton Junction, it would save me roughly the time I'd save using HS2.
It was bound to attract the nimbies, that's partly why it will take 20 years. I mean it took the victorians about a quarter of that time to build their route to London, by hand FFS!.
When the route was announced, it occured to me it might be fairly close to where a guy I work with lives. So I logged on and looked, I was right it goes practically underneath his house in a shallow tunnel and pops out about 200 yards away.
He's only bought the place last year and spent a lot of time and money renovating it. He's no impressed.
Of course there will be grievances and people whose houses are adversely affected should be looked after, I just get pissed at the people that aren't badly affected who try to stop ANY change. There are NIMBYs everywhere with little else to do but campaign against progress, you should see the letters of doom they write to local papers about a few new houses in an area crying out for affordable homes.
I think they should build it just to p155 the nimbys off. And bury "no win, no fee" solicitors under the overburden along with cockroaches and other infestations!
I haven't seen the cost estimates for it but it was reported on the same news that told us of a hospital in Staffordshire which had killed 400 people due to inadequate care which can most likely be put down to budget cuts, and an old lady who has died of starvation because they closed down her care company because of illegal immigrants.
I'm not one to object to progress but I am one for prioritising what is and is not important and I think we need to sort our act out before we lash out billions on something that may or may not make the country look better at the expense of killing people in order to pay for it.
Can I be a politician please?
I haven't seen the cost estimates for it but it was reported on the same news that told us of a hospital in Staffordshire which had killed 400 people due to inadequate care which can most likely be put down to budget cuts, and an old lady who has died of starvation because they closed down her care company because of illegal immigrants.
I'm not one to object to progress but I am one for prioritising what is and is not important and I think we need to sort our act out before we lash out billions on something that may or may not make the country look better at the expense of killing people in order to pay for it.
Can I be a politician please?
velocemitch said:
I use the East Coast route quiet a lot to get to London and the biggest pain is driving into York, I have to allow at least three quarters of an hour to get the 15 miles or so from Wetherby to York. If they built a station out of town at say at Colton Junction, it would save me roughly the time I'd save using HS2.
This is a great point.When I travel to London by train it's all the ancillary time to the actual journey that costs me.
As per my example, the faster actual main journey is probably not the one that needs to see efficiency improvements.
The HS2 is awe inspiring and amazing. 250mph trains would be amazing to see.
But in my view right now we need more smaller lines connecting up these hubs better. HS2 from Leeds to London or Edinburgh would be great, but if you spend 2hrs getting to your 'hub' then the savings in the main journey are kinda irrelevant.
I'm all for wanting it to go ahead to annoy whingers though
Dave
Beeching was absolutely spot on with what he did back in the 60s, but it was anoversight because he couldn't foresee how busy the roads would get 50 years on. What we need now is a massive move to get freight off the roads, but it's taken 50 years to get the road freight network to what it is today, so to build the infrastructure to get it back on to the rails would be a huge operation. Possibly much cheaper than HS2 and a lot more use but then you're stuck with overcoming the current ease of sticking something on a truck and sending it up the M1. We've made a rod for our own backs really.
The tunnel theough the Alps to link up freight rail lines between Italy and France is 2x over its massive budget already and they have hardly put a shovel in the ground yet.
HS2 is forecast to cost £35 billion of our money and so will come in at at least 100 billion if history is any guide. It is subject to judicial review now as the case doest stack up on with the present cost. It is a collossal white elephant and i wonder WTF is driving it that we cant see. Please get behind the campaigb to stop it for the good of the whole country. The deficit is financed from Yorkshire as well.
HS2 is forecast to cost £35 billion of our money and so will come in at at least 100 billion if history is any guide. It is subject to judicial review now as the case doest stack up on with the present cost. It is a collossal white elephant and i wonder WTF is driving it that we cant see. Please get behind the campaigb to stop it for the good of the whole country. The deficit is financed from Yorkshire as well.
Greensleeves said:
Beeching was absolutely spot on with what he did back in the 60s, but it was anoversight because he couldn't foresee how busy the roads would get 50 years on. What we need now is a massive move to get freight off the roads, but it's taken 50 years to get the road freight. network to what it is today, so to build the infrastructure to get it back on to the rails would be a huge operation. Possibly much cheaper than HS2 and a lot more use but then you're stuck with overcoming the current ease of sticking something on a truck and sending it up the M1. We've made a rod for our own backs really.
I'd have to disagree on the Beeching comment, a lot of that report and the subsequent actions were politically motivated (aren't things always?) and we're still dealing with the fallout for both passengers and freight today.Regarding freight specifically, the biggest problem is capacity, i.e. there isn't enough at the moment to fit more onto the rails. While this is being worked on extensively, it doesn't happen overnight.
If you're interested in seeing it in action pop over to Immingham or Barnetby and see the amount of container, coal and steel traffic that passes by!
Cheers,
Tom
We are smack bang on the route (Altofts) there is the usual uproar from a small number of residents who back onto it but it doesnt bother us. I do feel for people in a way as even though in reality its highly unlikely it will ever actually get built it will no doubt affect house prices. Apparently if you can claim compensation you wont see it for 20 years yet so really the damage has been done in terms of what you need compensating for.
Our articular part of the route runs through what people mistakenly think is "green belt" but what it actually is is old pit stacks. We have a history of being a large rail hub in the area so I dont think its out of character for where we are.
Our articular part of the route runs through what people mistakenly think is "green belt" but what it actually is is old pit stacks. We have a history of being a large rail hub in the area so I dont think its out of character for where we are.
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