Knockhill Backwards

[S2red]

I see from Celtic Speed Mini site they (Knockhill) are proposing two meetings using "wrong" direction round track

Should be fun

[Sunnysidebb]

S2red said:

I see from Celtic Speed Mini site they (Knockhill) are proposing two meetings using "wrong" direction round track

Should be fun

When I used to do a lot of rallying in my GP A Escort Cosworth 15 years ago, that's how Knock Hill always ran the rallies backwards. TBH I have never done knock hill correct way.lol
I wouldn't mind doing a track day there some time in the future.

[AmiableChimp]

I remember spectating at a Thursday night tracknight (possibly Dreadnought?) where they ran Knockhill backwards.

Some boy in a Scooby estate rolled his car a few times as he came up from Duffus Dip - managed to drive it home but it was looking in a sorry state!

[stiglet]

I remember a (good) few years ago the Rally School used to run on part of the tarmac circuit anti-clockwise**.

Charging over the chicane "blind" the first couple of times was .....interesting

• I have also been "backwards" at Knockhill when I've been meaning to go round clockwise

[P I Staker]

At the Grant Construction Stages the other weekend they where running the track backwards.

[Nefarious]

S2red said:

I see from Celtic Speed Mini site they (Knockhill) are proposing two meetings using "wrong" direction round track

Should be fun

Any links or details of dates?

[S2red]

On their Facebook page Celtic Speed Mini Cooper cup


Updated dates for Mini Coopers January 2012: ((c) = confirmed)
1) 8th April (c)
2) 5th & 6th May (c)
3) 2nd June - OULTON PARK (c)
0) 23rd 24th June CROFT *BTCC not confirmed
0) 8th July - *KMSC event, proposed reverse track but not confirmed
4) 21st & 22nd July (c)
5) 12th August (c)
6) 25th & 26th August *BTCC not confirmed
7) 8 & 9 September CROFT (c)
8) 23rd September (c)
9) 7th October (c)
0) 28th October *KMSC event, proposed reverse track but not confirmed

[ViperPict]

stiglet said:

I remember a (good) few years ago the Rally School used to run on part of the tarmac circuit anti-clockwise**.

Charging over the chicane "blind" the first couple of times was .....interesting

• I have also been "backwards" at Knockhill when I've been meaning to go round clockwise

Yip, I did that. It was in a 2 litre Sierra. Which was quite fast enough!!

[tvrolet]

Not sure if I fancy that. If you're hitting 120+ under the bridge up a hill from effectively a standing start (the apex of the hairpin), what are you going to be doing down a hill with an entry to the straight of what, maybe 70mph? Jeez that's going to be butt clenching braking for the hairpin with precious little run-off. Most places would have a run-off/exit route with a braking zone like that wouldn't they (I'm thinking Oulton and Cadwell with braking for a tight bend down a hill). And KH would have a chain-link fence, some tyres and maybe 20 metres of gravel? Or am I overestimating the speeds too much?

[S2red]

Whats is speed into hairpin from other direction?

[CO2000]

I remember in the mid /late 90's quite a few SRMC race meetings were run like this & the early 90's Hilllclimbs also.

A good change from the norm.

[ViperPict]

tvrolet said:

Not sure if I fancy that. If you're hitting 120+ under the bridge up a hill from effectively a standing start (the apex of the hairpin), what are you going to be doing down a hill with an entry to the straight of what, maybe 70mph? Jeez that's going to be butt clenching braking for the hairpin with precious little run-off. Most places would have a run-off/exit route with a braking zone like that wouldn't they (I'm thinking Oulton and Cadwell with braking for a tight bend down a hill). And KH would have a chain-link fence, some tyres and maybe 20 metres of gravel? Or am I overestimating the speeds too much?

Even in the 2 litre Sierras you had to show some extreme restraint!

[tvrolet]

S2red said:

Whats is speed into hairpin from other direction?

In my humble motor it’s hitting 125 on the back straight at the point of braking for the hairpin (and I know I brake too early!). This is off the data logger so it’s accurate. And although I record 35mph round the actual hairpin, the component of speed on the axis of the main straight drops to zero mid turn so while the car is moving it’s really 0mph relative to the straight so effectively a standing start up the hill in terms of terminal speed. It’s hitting 125 on the straight again (up the hill) before slowing to 60 to go down Duffus (I’m scrubbing off too much speed, I know), and then 80 at the foot of the wee hill.

I’m thinking coming the other way you could be carrying 60mph onto the straight and so maybe 150 before having to brake back down to basically zero for the apex of the hairpin. So unless I'm extrapolating this wrong I'm thinking of currently braking from 125 to 0 on the flat versus 150 to zero down a hill. Yipes.

I'd be a whole lot happier if there was an exit route at the hairpin for anti-clockwise sessions...but then again I'm just a track day driver, and the kosher race boys probably have far bigger cojones than me.

PS - anyone know what's going on this year at Ingliston? I gather there's meant to be a proper bike race there (Kirkcaldy club I think) in the summer - not a sprint but a full-on round of the the championship. Apparently some buildings have been demolished so the full curcuit can be run with room for overtaking etc. Of have I been spun a line on this one?

[S2red]

Last time I was at Ingliston the Grandstand was in way of full original circuit though you could use old pit entry and go round back of grandstand Not sure of suitability for bikes though

At KH maybe they could bypass hairpin and use loop the track cars hide in that would be a mega corner with lots of run off but Crap visibility

Edited by S2red on Friday 20th January 11:48

Edited by S2red on Friday 20th January 11:51

[TWJPToyota]

No sprint this year as funding not in place to re-surface road.

[BMR]

S2red said:

Last time I was at Ingliston the Grandstand was in way of full original circuit though you could use old pit entry and go round back of grandstand Not sure of suitability for bikes though

At KH maybe they could bypass hairpin and use loop the track cars hide in that would be a mega corner with lots of run off but Crap visibility

Edited by S2red on Friday 20th January 11:48

Edited by S2red on Friday 20th January 11:51

I have to admit when I read this thread my first concern would be to the speed at the hairpin, going the normal way in my Fiesta I think from the speedo I am doing 100-110mph before I brake. So taking Duffus going up the hill say 60 (normally 70-80 right way) I would say 120-130 would be achievable. Remembering of course the downhill approach to the hairpin.

So maybe using the loop would be a good idea. I believe Knockhill call that the National circuit with the normal being the International.

I never saw any of the anti-clockwise races originally but do believe there were several big accidents and the circuit let the licence lapse on it. Anti-clockwise running could be the unique selling point for the circuit for their KMSC races as it then differentiates them from the SMRC meetings.

[CO2000]

BMR said:

S2red said:

Last time I was at Ingliston the Grandstand was in way of full original circuit though you could use old pit entry and go round back of grandstand Not sure of suitability for bikes though

At KH maybe they could bypass hairpin and use loop the track cars hide in that would be a mega corner with lots of run off but Crap visibility

Edited by S2red on Friday 20th January 11:48

Edited by S2red on Friday 20th January 11:51

I have to admit when I read this thread my first concern would be to the speed at the hairpin, going the normal way in my Fiesta I think from the speedo I am doing 100-110mph before I brake. So taking Duffus going up the hill say 60 (normally 70-80 right way) I would say 120-130 would be achievable. Remembering of course the downhill approach to the hairpin.

So maybe using the loop would be a good idea. I believe Knockhill call that the National circuit with the normal being the International.

I never saw any of the anti-clockwise races originally but do believe there were several big accidents and the circuit let the licence lapse on it. Anti-clockwise running could be the unique selling point for the circuit for their KMSC races as it then differentiates them from the SMRC meetings.

The drifts out of Duffus in reverse were awesome for the quicker cars

[cammy71]

Remember when the wife was racing in the SMRC XR2 challenge, they had a reverse race each season. Braking for hairpin was even more chaotic than it was for the entry to Duffus dip! Drivers actually loved it as the series only raced at KH (apart from one race @ croft) and the change was most welcomed.

[tvrolet]

doogz said:

When was this?

My mate races XR2's, and has done for a long time, and we were talking about it yesterday, saying it's pending MSA approval, and that it's never been done before?

Don't know about cars, but it certainly used to run backwards for bikes every so often. This was a long time ago though, and my previous next door neighbour at the time was unfortunately killed on an anti-clockwise meeting - flagged out the pits and t-boned by another bike; there wasn't great visibility of bikes coming down the straight over the crest since there wasn't the raised marshall post on the start line if I remember correctly. That would have been in 1982 I'm guessing, and I think that was the last regular anti-clockwise bike meet.

[BMR]

Last car meeting in reverse I'm guessing about 10 years ago? XR2's only started as a series in 1996.