PM Says No to TV Debate with Salmond - Your Views?
Discussion
David Cameron has made a fresh refusal to enter a TV debate on Scottish Independence.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-pol...
I was just wondering, how many people think that it would be the right thing to do for the PM to engage this or should he maybe be compelled to?
I think that there are a lot of good reasons that Cameron should take part in a head to head with Salmond (entertainment value being one of them I must admit) but I understand why he would be nervous about entering into this. I also don't think it's morally wrong for him to refuse either. I would be interested to know what others think.
If there's a mod about, could you make a quick yes/no poll for this please?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-pol...
I was just wondering, how many people think that it would be the right thing to do for the PM to engage this or should he maybe be compelled to?
I think that there are a lot of good reasons that Cameron should take part in a head to head with Salmond (entertainment value being one of them I must admit) but I understand why he would be nervous about entering into this. I also don't think it's morally wrong for him to refuse either. I would be interested to know what others think.
If there's a mod about, could you make a quick yes/no poll for this please?
He either believes its not worth his time as its a no brainer for a NO vote or as you say is scared of the outcome of going toe-toe with a jolly fat Scots man and swinging it towards a YES vote!
Comedy value alone means he should be forced to take part, both are a couple of bumbling idiots!
Comedy value alone means he should be forced to take part, both are a couple of bumbling idiots!
randlemarcus said:
He's English. He has no interest in the election, as it's only for our Scots cousins. Nobody will let the other parts of the UK vote, as it would be a foregone conclusion.
And I think that's the important point. Scots don't tend to like an Englishman coming on telly, telling them what they should / shouldn't do. It stokes our old-fashioned, out-of-date perception of the English as against us, and image which the SNP would love..A Scottish politician (and there are many good ones) is better placed to give an percieved non-biased viewpoint. I personally think TV debates are mostly a waste of time, and only good for minor comedy value - I certainly wouldn't be making a decision based on them, but will be making a judgement call based on what facts are available (which are currently heavily weighed in the 'Naw' camp IMO)..
ModernAndy said:
I was just wondering, how many people think that it would be the right thing to do for the PM to engage this or should he maybe be compelled to?
PM can't get anything positive out of such a debate. If he is too strident he risks alienating some who might vote no. And if he goes soft he looks weak and loses face with his own party and voters down south. It's a lose-lose.Mr. Salmond OTOH knows that he can only 'win' such a debate. He's a competent TV performer when his opposition has to tread more carefully so he's unlikely to slip up.
The real debate and discussion is for those living and voting north of the border. I think Mr. Cameron has only one duty as a UK PM which is simply to state the case for the union in broad terms and leave it for those actually involved in the referendum to get on with the discussion.
I'd much rather see Mr Salmond making argument with other respected Scottish politicians. I'm a bit disheartened that he seems to feel that a debate with Mr. Cameron is so important - more so for him rather than Scottish people I suspect.
There is absolutely no chance of the independence yes vote succeeding.
People in Scotland all recognize the SNP for the socialist f
kwits they are.Alex Salmond is a blowhard supreme debater, David Cameron is a wet blanket.
Salmond wants independence ? And be part of the EU ?
Does not compute ! Brain dead blowhard !
driver67 said:
There is absolutely no chance of the independence yes vote succeeding.
People in Scotland all recognize the SNP for the socialist fkwits they are.
Alex Salmond is a blowhard supreme debater, David Cameron is a wet blanket.
Salmond wants independence ? And be part of the EU ?
Does not compute ! Brain dead blowhard !
Sounds like the big fat boy stole your chips!!People in Scotland all recognize the SNP for the socialist f
kwits they are.Alex Salmond is a blowhard supreme debater, David Cameron is a wet blanket.
Salmond wants independence ? And be part of the EU ?
Does not compute ! Brain dead blowhard !
6C4GTS said:
Sounds like the big fat boy stole your chips!!
Lol, If you go back to the early 70's etc - people called the SNP 'Tartan Tories'. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Why would Scotland be independant ?
The EU is a totally corrupt 'pat my back' organisation.
Socialist f
kwits !Vote UKIP, the only way out of the emerging EUSSR
Edited by driver67 on Friday 27th September 21:50
the problem with the snp is that they say we should be independent because it's better, they say we can retire earlier, get more police, more jobs, less taxes and more benefits. They don't state how any of this will be done, one other thing that bugs me is that they want scotland to be emmisions free, no carbon emissions and super earth friendly...... all the while they go on about oil revenue supporting the country.
surely if we don't use the oil and other countries try and be eco friendly the oil revenue would drop significantly.
they also want people 16 to be able to take part in the vote, so a 16 year old can vote to change their country but can't drive or drink.
surely if we don't use the oil and other countries try and be eco friendly the oil revenue would drop significantly.
they also want people 16 to be able to take part in the vote, so a 16 year old can vote to change their country but can't drive or drink.
My problem is will the SNP not publishing where they will recieve the funds.
North sea oil, remember part is taken by the English if we split so we lose there. At the same time alot of rigs go almost untaxed due to the state of the wells and that the production is low. And production is dropping.
More tax from whisky was made last year than oil. I'm sorry to say this but unless the SNP can show me the accounts book with a black instead of a red number (verified by a independent accoutant) then the union I will want to stay in.
Also I HATE the EU, infact hate can't describe what I feel about those complete waste of oxygen those idiots are.
North sea oil, remember part is taken by the English if we split so we lose there. At the same time alot of rigs go almost untaxed due to the state of the wells and that the production is low. And production is dropping.
More tax from whisky was made last year than oil. I'm sorry to say this but unless the SNP can show me the accounts book with a black instead of a red number (verified by a independent accoutant) then the union I will want to stay in.
Also I HATE the EU, infact hate can't describe what I feel about those complete waste of oxygen those idiots are.
Patch1875 said:
Cameron is right its for the scottish people to decide.
Darling is the voice of the no vote but Salmond wont go toe to toe with him. wonder why? is is because of darling reputation of a great debator?
nah its just he is scared of those eyebrows, in future years they will probably vote for independance from the rest of his face!Darling is the voice of the no vote but Salmond wont go toe to toe with him. wonder why? is is because of darling reputation of a great debator?
Kaiser Damz said:
the problem with the snp is that they say we should be independent because it's better, they say we can retire earlier, get more police, more jobs, less taxes and more benefits. They don't state how any of this will be done.
Robert Burns said:
My problem is will the SNP not publishing where they will recieve the funds...
I'm sorry to say this but unless the SNP can show me the accounts book with a black instead of a red number (verified by a independent accoutant) then the union I will want to stay in.
^^ my sentiments exactly, to both.I'm sorry to say this but unless the SNP can show me the accounts book with a black instead of a red number (verified by a independent accoutant) then the union I will want to stay in.
Patch1875 said:
Cameron is right its for the scottish people to decide.
Darling is the voice of the no vote but Salmond wont go toe to toe with him. wonder why? is is because of darling reputation of a great debator?
Darling is chairman of "Better Together", the Chairman of "Yes" is Denis Canavan. Darling is the voice of the no vote but Salmond wont go toe to toe with him. wonder why? is is because of darling reputation of a great debator?
It's a strange place we live in, when people clamour to say that our First Minister should debate with the part-time leader of a pressure group, while the PM sits in London and 'stays out of the debate' while mobilising all of the UK's resources to take part in it. Have we no self respect?
Like Salmond or not, he was elected fairly and squarely and has a mandate to hold a referendum, as he clearly promised.
Cameron is today saying that he looks forward to 2015 UK debates, so to me he is insulting both Yes and No voters by not engaging honestly with this one.
As I said, I don't mind if he is in or out of the argument, but not pretending to be out while spending millions fighting it. (13 UK govt papers alone). Is he really saying that Alistair Darling can speak for him on everything to do with Scotland, or is Darling saying that he's backing all the coalition plans...? that is a first!
We shouldn't let personal prejudices against say Salmond, get in the way of hearing the full debate before voting.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnett_formula
Every tax payer in Scotland would need to contribute 17% more to the new Scottish treasury, just to match the current status quo of services.
These are official figures reflecting the current uplift:
In monetary figures, this would work out as (per person):[5]
England £7,121
Scotland £8,623
Wales £8,139
Northern Ireland £9,385
Every tax payer in Scotland would need to contribute 17% more to the new Scottish treasury, just to match the current status quo of services.
These are official figures reflecting the current uplift:
In monetary figures, this would work out as (per person):[5]
England £7,121
Scotland £8,623
Wales £8,139
Northern Ireland £9,385
Edited by Hol on Sunday 29th September 12:55
footsoldier said:
Darling is chairman of "Better Together", the Chairman of "Yes" is Denis Canavan.
It's a strange place we live in, when people clamour to say that our First Minister should debate with the part-time leader of a pressure group, while the PM sits in London and 'stays out of the debate' while mobilising all of the UK's resources to take part in it. Have we no self respect?
Like Salmond or not, he was elected fairly and squarely and has a mandate to hold a referendum, as he clearly promised.
Cameron is today saying that he looks forward to 2015 UK debates, so to me he is insulting both Yes and No voters by not engaging honestly with this one.
As I said, I don't mind if he is in or out of the argument, but not pretending to be out while spending millions fighting it. (13 UK govt papers alone). Is he really saying that Alistair Darling can speak for him on everything to do with Scotland, or is Darling saying that he's backing all the coalition plans...? that is a first!
We shouldn't let personal prejudices against say Salmond, get in the way of hearing the full debate before voting.
I have no personal prejudices against the fat jambo It's a strange place we live in, when people clamour to say that our First Minister should debate with the part-time leader of a pressure group, while the PM sits in London and 'stays out of the debate' while mobilising all of the UK's resources to take part in it. Have we no self respect?
Like Salmond or not, he was elected fairly and squarely and has a mandate to hold a referendum, as he clearly promised.
Cameron is today saying that he looks forward to 2015 UK debates, so to me he is insulting both Yes and No voters by not engaging honestly with this one.
As I said, I don't mind if he is in or out of the argument, but not pretending to be out while spending millions fighting it. (13 UK govt papers alone). Is he really saying that Alistair Darling can speak for him on everything to do with Scotland, or is Darling saying that he's backing all the coalition plans...? that is a first!
We shouldn't let personal prejudices against say Salmond, get in the way of hearing the full debate before voting.
Hol said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnett_formula
Every tax payer in Scotland would need to contribute 17% more to the new Scottish treasury, just to match the current status quo of services.
^^ the problem is the 'it'll be better under Independence!!!1!1!1!!!' claims and all the extra services we'll could potentially be enjoying are somewhat under threat from existing social problems; the aging populace, the benefit culture, the possibly nationalised Mail service, the earlier retirement age, oil being a finite resource, etc. Every tax payer in Scotland would need to contribute 17% more to the new Scottish treasury, just to match the current status quo of services.
IMO the +17% contribution to keep a 'status quo' level of public spending in that Barnett Formula piece is irrelevant, because of all these new promises being made.
I'd guess under Independence, per capita, it would be more like +25-30% once things like servicing finance debt and defence are taken into account, but if additional personal tax burden was simply laid out in black and white - +1p/2p/3p/5p/10p per pound earned - then it would allow me to make an informed decision.
Until then... Aahhm oot of supporting independence I'm afraid.
Edited by FamilyDub on Sunday 29th September 16:25
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