Worrying judgement
Discussion
Something to be aware of!!
'Motorcyclists at the head of a group of riders will face stiffer penalties for speeding under a crown court ruling.
Being the lead rider in a group is an aggravating factor making you partly responsible for speeding offences of those behind you according to the decision.
The ruling can be applied in any future cases where two or more motorcyclists riding together are accused of speeding. The head rider might be only a few mph over the limit but could be given the same penalty as the worst offender behind.
Road traffic solicitor Robert Dobson said: “Any crown court decision can be stated in future cases. This is potentially a very dangerous judgement for motorcyclists.
"Riders in a group change position frequently.
“If you are riding at the front any group at excess speed, then the very fact you’re at the front is an aggravating factor.”
Ken Clark, 49, reached 85mph on his Yamaha R1 while leading a group of three riders on the 60mph A272 near Rogate, Sussex, last June.
The speed is within the usual threshold for a fixed penalty of three points and a £60 fine.
But Chichester Crown Court ruled he should receive the same penalty as a following rider accused of going 103mph.
Barrister notes on the ruling given to Clark after the hearing state: ‘Although his was the lesser speed, [the bench] found it an aggravating feature that he was the lead motorcyclist, was setting the pace and he knew that the other two motorcyclists would want to catch him up and would be speeding to do so.’
The court rejected Clark’s appeal against six points, a £100 fine and £250 court costs.
Clark said: “This should have been three points and a £60 fine but so far it’s cost me £2,500 including solicitors’ bills and I have six points on a licence which has been clean for the last 24 years.”
Clark’s solicitor, Philip Somarakis, said 103mph was the speed reached by a police officer on an unmarked bike while tailing Clark's two friends, but the prosecution accepted it was not possible to prove from video evidence that Clark himself had exceeded 85mph.
“The gist of the ruling is that to be a lead motorcyclist makes you somehow responsible for the actions of those behind you,” he added. '
The courts will obviously be able to use this verdict against car drivers as well.
Up until now anybody out on a drive with a group has been 'responsible for their own actions' but this ruling has now moved the goal posts.
If you are an RO or organiser of a run then you are normally at the front, so this ruling has serious implications for you
'Motorcyclists at the head of a group of riders will face stiffer penalties for speeding under a crown court ruling.
Being the lead rider in a group is an aggravating factor making you partly responsible for speeding offences of those behind you according to the decision.
The ruling can be applied in any future cases where two or more motorcyclists riding together are accused of speeding. The head rider might be only a few mph over the limit but could be given the same penalty as the worst offender behind.
Road traffic solicitor Robert Dobson said: “Any crown court decision can be stated in future cases. This is potentially a very dangerous judgement for motorcyclists.
"Riders in a group change position frequently.
“If you are riding at the front any group at excess speed, then the very fact you’re at the front is an aggravating factor.”
Ken Clark, 49, reached 85mph on his Yamaha R1 while leading a group of three riders on the 60mph A272 near Rogate, Sussex, last June.
The speed is within the usual threshold for a fixed penalty of three points and a £60 fine.
But Chichester Crown Court ruled he should receive the same penalty as a following rider accused of going 103mph.
Barrister notes on the ruling given to Clark after the hearing state: ‘Although his was the lesser speed, [the bench] found it an aggravating feature that he was the lead motorcyclist, was setting the pace and he knew that the other two motorcyclists would want to catch him up and would be speeding to do so.’
The court rejected Clark’s appeal against six points, a £100 fine and £250 court costs.
Clark said: “This should have been three points and a £60 fine but so far it’s cost me £2,500 including solicitors’ bills and I have six points on a licence which has been clean for the last 24 years.”
Clark’s solicitor, Philip Somarakis, said 103mph was the speed reached by a police officer on an unmarked bike while tailing Clark's two friends, but the prosecution accepted it was not possible to prove from video evidence that Clark himself had exceeded 85mph.
“The gist of the ruling is that to be a lead motorcyclist makes you somehow responsible for the actions of those behind you,” he added. '
The courts will obviously be able to use this verdict against car drivers as well.
Up until now anybody out on a drive with a group has been 'responsible for their own actions' but this ruling has now moved the goal posts.
If you are an RO or organiser of a run then you are normally at the front, so this ruling has serious implications for you
How can travelling at 85mph aggravate someone behind you in the same group to do 103mph?
Surely if you're doing 70mph and the persons behind in the same group are doing 103mph it's exactly the same thing?
They are going to overtake you at that speed. The only way you could "aggravate" them is by doing 104mph, no?
That's like saying driving properly at the national speed limit on a national speed limit road you are aggravating the people behind you to overtake at more than the speed limit, therefor you should slow down to 40mph and keep the tailback behind you happy and smiling.
Surely if you're doing 70mph and the persons behind in the same group are doing 103mph it's exactly the same thing?
They are going to overtake you at that speed. The only way you could "aggravate" them is by doing 104mph, no?
That's like saying driving properly at the national speed limit on a national speed limit road you are aggravating the people behind you to overtake at more than the speed limit, therefor you should slow down to 40mph and keep the tailback behind you happy and smiling.
The rules are slightly different in Scotland, so hopefully it won't be the case up here. I wonder if he had a better lawyer he would have just got the fixed penalty. How can you be responsible for other people's driving who are behind you. Sounds like a lot of pish.
I'm glad on the October Stirling run everybody stuck to the speed limit or me and flipflop would have got at least 9 points each and si you would have got 3-6 points for being our accomplice.
"Officer i was only speeding to keep up with my friend, i have never speeded before, it's his fault"(pointing to the lead car)
"Sorry for stopping you Sir, on your way. Hoy, you in the lead car 6 pts and £100 fine 'cause your pal was driving like a fanny"
"But i wasn't even speeding"???
I'm glad on the October Stirling run everybody stuck to the speed limit or me and flipflop would have got at least 9 points each and si you would have got 3-6 points for being our accomplice.
"Officer i was only speeding to keep up with my friend, i have never speeded before, it's his fault"(pointing to the lead car)
"Sorry for stopping you Sir, on your way. Hoy, you in the lead car 6 pts and £100 fine 'cause your pal was driving like a fanny"
"But i wasn't even speeding"???
kmm said:
The rules are slightly different in Scotland, so hopefully it won't be the case up here. I wonder if he had a better lawyer he would have just got the fixed penalty. How can you be responsible for other people's driving who are behind you. Sounds like a lot of pish.
I'm glad on the October Stirling run everybody stuck to the speed limit or me and flipflop would have got at least 9 points each and si you would have got 3-6 points for being our accomplice.
"Officer i was only speeding to keep up with my friend, i have never speeded before, it's his fault"(pointing to the lead car)
"Sorry for stopping you Sir, on your way. Hoy, you in the lead car 6 pts and £100 fine 'cause your pal was driving like a fanny"
"But i wasn't even speeding"???
9 points each!!! pah! more like 109 points each if there was a scam on the dukes pass, this is "allegedly" of course as everybody I saw was driving very responsibly.I'm glad on the October Stirling run everybody stuck to the speed limit or me and flipflop would have got at least 9 points each and si you would have got 3-6 points for being our accomplice.
"Officer i was only speeding to keep up with my friend, i have never speeded before, it's his fault"(pointing to the lead car)
"Sorry for stopping you Sir, on your way. Hoy, you in the lead car 6 pts and £100 fine 'cause your pal was driving like a fanny"
"But i wasn't even speeding"???
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