4.00 se engine
Discussion
Ive come across a 1992 Ginetta G33 fitted with a TVR badged engine with 4.0 SE in the plenum. It also has a TVR engine number stamped on it in addition to the standard number. Its fitted with the 14CUX and hot wire AFM, and was giving around 200 bhp with a Range Rover chip in the ECU. Since its been re chipped to get the fueling right its now considerably higher (sorry I don't have the exact figure) but does anyone know the likely mods to this engine in terms of cam, heads, inlet etc?
Thanks.
Thanks.
According to TVR they were supposed to have a higher compression ratio, 214 camshaft, improved balancing etc, but that didn't always happen.....
When my 91 400se engine was rebuilt, the CR was standard (we fixed that by skimming a bit off the block) but it did have the 214 camshaft. Bottom end was stock, but it did have an extra piece of a bolt folded into the bottom pulley - I presume this was the extra balancing!
As well as taking the CR up to where it was supposed to be we fitted gapless rings, tin gaskets, MC1 camshaft, new cam and main bearings, stud kit for the bottom end and just generally set everything up on the button.
It was one VERY VERY fast 400se when it went back on the road!
When my 91 400se engine was rebuilt, the CR was standard (we fixed that by skimming a bit off the block) but it did have the 214 camshaft. Bottom end was stock, but it did have an extra piece of a bolt folded into the bottom pulley - I presume this was the extra balancing!
As well as taking the CR up to where it was supposed to be we fitted gapless rings, tin gaskets, MC1 camshaft, new cam and main bearings, stud kit for the bottom end and just generally set everything up on the button.
It was one VERY VERY fast 400se when it went back on the road!
Just out of interest Andy did your 400SE have 400SE on the Plenum, as I know the earler Flapper NCK 400SE's did not. Also all the NCK engines I know off, did have the work done. but the later car may have had the same engines as the 4.0 Griff/Chim engines that did not have much work done to them.
Back to OP 200 BHP is very low, my 3.9 LR engine with a LR camshaft gave 190 BHP, and then 220 once I fitted a fast road Camshaft.
Back to OP 200 BHP is very low, my 3.9 LR engine with a LR camshaft gave 190 BHP, and then 220 once I fitted a fast road Camshaft.
To be honest I cannot quite remember if it said 400se or just 400. If I had to choose I'd plump for 400se.
The thing that amazed me was the difference the rebuild made. The car had already been clocked on GPS doing 155mph (roof down) on the way to Le Mans before the rebuild. After the rebuild, it was just sooo much more powerful, revvy and smooth. TVR claimed 267bhp for the 400se, - I think that was a bit optimistic. But, I'd say a standard late car would usually be around 220, and I think mine may have been as much as 250 post fettling - such was the difference. (mind you I was running almost 11:1 compression ratio by then, with gapless rings and a new cam!
The thing that amazed me was the difference the rebuild made. The car had already been clocked on GPS doing 155mph (roof down) on the way to Le Mans before the rebuild. After the rebuild, it was just sooo much more powerful, revvy and smooth. TVR claimed 267bhp for the 400se, - I think that was a bit optimistic. But, I'd say a standard late car would usually be around 220, and I think mine may have been as much as 250 post fettling - such was the difference. (mind you I was running almost 11:1 compression ratio by then, with gapless rings and a new cam!
andymadmak said:
To be honest I cannot quite remember if it said 400se or just 400. If I had to choose I'd plump for 400se.
The thing that amazed me was the difference the rebuild made. The car had already been clocked on GPS doing 155mph (roof down) on the way to Le Mans before the rebuild. After the rebuild, it was just sooo much more powerful, revvy and smooth. TVR claimed 267bhp for the 400se, - I think that was a bit optimistic. But, I'd say a standard late car would usually be around 220, and I think mine may have been as much as 250 post fettling - such was the difference. (mind you I was running almost 11:1 compression ratio by then, with gapless rings and a new cam!
My standard 400SE Flapper made 240 about 10 years ago, most if the NCK 400SE made 230 - 250, so a little less than quoted, I know of at least one though that was about 260 and AFATK it was standard.The thing that amazed me was the difference the rebuild made. The car had already been clocked on GPS doing 155mph (roof down) on the way to Le Mans before the rebuild. After the rebuild, it was just sooo much more powerful, revvy and smooth. TVR claimed 267bhp for the 400se, - I think that was a bit optimistic. But, I'd say a standard late car would usually be around 220, and I think mine may have been as much as 250 post fettling - such was the difference. (mind you I was running almost 11:1 compression ratio by then, with gapless rings and a new cam!
As tested with on my temp engine, just a Camshaft change a 9.35:1 LR engine with make 220.
Also one of the racers has a 4.1 litre Rv8 and that's had a lot of work done, but that was 360 BHP, so it's not hard to get more power out of them, or to TVR figures or above.
I'm hoping for at least 300 BHP from the 4.5 I'm building.
Just to chuck this into the mix...
My 390SE engine started as a 3905cc with flat-top pistons (10.5:1CR, allegedly). It had been fitted with an RP1 cam from RPI and runs hydraulic lifters.
I had it taken out to 3948cc (same as a 400SE) using LR pistons with the slightly-dished crown (est. 9.35:1 CR). Valve pockets were machined-in. The heads are as NCK ported them running standard valves with shortened guides and dual springs.
As an experiment I took the inlet manifold off and fitted a spare to which I'd done some mild porting (the NCK original has ports you could walk through!). I fitted uprated injectors and turned the rail pressure down to compensate, using the original adjustable regulator.
The 4CU ECU is the original as far as I know but the AFM had been replaced before I got the car. I've played with it a bit
Fuel pump is standard as is the throttle body.
On last year's BBWF rolling-road it made 256bhp and 280lb/ft. torque running 95RON Tesco petrol. I think it was about 4th highest recorded figure on the day behind a 400SE with Megasquirt, a 450SE(?) and another Wedge, with the max. being about 283bhp as I recall (there was a thread called 'Show us your curves' or some such). The MS-equipped car had near-identical power and torque but with a slightly flatter curve than mine.
I understand most of the Chim/Griff engines use the dished pistons and 9.35:1 CR. Even so there should be way more than 200bp available!
My 390SE engine started as a 3905cc with flat-top pistons (10.5:1CR, allegedly). It had been fitted with an RP1 cam from RPI and runs hydraulic lifters.
I had it taken out to 3948cc (same as a 400SE) using LR pistons with the slightly-dished crown (est. 9.35:1 CR). Valve pockets were machined-in. The heads are as NCK ported them running standard valves with shortened guides and dual springs.
As an experiment I took the inlet manifold off and fitted a spare to which I'd done some mild porting (the NCK original has ports you could walk through!). I fitted uprated injectors and turned the rail pressure down to compensate, using the original adjustable regulator.
The 4CU ECU is the original as far as I know but the AFM had been replaced before I got the car. I've played with it a bit
Fuel pump is standard as is the throttle body.
On last year's BBWF rolling-road it made 256bhp and 280lb/ft. torque running 95RON Tesco petrol. I think it was about 4th highest recorded figure on the day behind a 400SE with Megasquirt, a 450SE(?) and another Wedge, with the max. being about 283bhp as I recall (there was a thread called 'Show us your curves' or some such). The MS-equipped car had near-identical power and torque but with a slightly flatter curve than mine.
I understand most of the Chim/Griff engines use the dished pistons and 9.35:1 CR. Even so there should be way more than 200bp available!
200bhp (fly) is more like a very good 350i. 
Anyway, just dug up an interesting old Wedge page discussing 400SE tuning possibilities. (I bought my 400SE from brummmie, but with the engine out of his Chim' in it).
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0...
Anyway, just dug up an interesting old Wedge page discussing 400SE tuning possibilities. (I bought my 400SE from brummmie, but with the engine out of his Chim' in it).
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0...
TVRleigh_BBWR said:
My standard 400SE Flapper made 240 about 10 years ago, most if the NCK 400SE made 230 - 250, so a little less than quoted, I know of at least one though that was about 260 and AFATK it was standard.
As tested with on my temp engine, just a Camshaft change a 9.35:1 LR engine with make 220.
Also one of the racers has a 4.1 litre Rv8 and that's had a lot of work done, but that was 360 BHP, so it's not hard to get more power out of them, or to TVR figures or above.
I'm hoping for at least 300 BHP from the 4.5 I'm building.
Those are extremely high figures. As tested with on my temp engine, just a Camshaft change a 9.35:1 LR engine with make 220.
Also one of the racers has a 4.1 litre Rv8 and that's had a lot of work done, but that was 360 BHP, so it's not hard to get more power out of them, or to TVR figures or above.
I'm hoping for at least 300 BHP from the 4.5 I'm building.
Have you a copy of the dyno results? It will be very hard to get you to 300 but it can be done. Just remember that every extra bhp costs more than the one added before it. If you run the spec by me, I can offer suggestions. Will you be using a flapper or hotwire?plushuit said:
TVRleigh_BBWR said:
My standard 400SE Flapper made 240 about 10 years ago, most if the NCK 400SE made 230 - 250, so a little less than quoted, I know of at least one though that was about 260 and AFATK it was standard.
As tested with on my temp engine, just a Camshaft change a 9.35:1 LR engine with make 220.
Also one of the racers has a 4.1 litre Rv8 and that's had a lot of work done, but that was 360 BHP, so it's not hard to get more power out of them, or to TVR figures or above.
I'm hoping for at least 300 BHP from the 4.5 I'm building.
Those are extremely high figures. As tested with on my temp engine, just a Camshaft change a 9.35:1 LR engine with make 220.
Also one of the racers has a 4.1 litre Rv8 and that's had a lot of work done, but that was 360 BHP, so it's not hard to get more power out of them, or to TVR figures or above.
I'm hoping for at least 300 BHP from the 4.5 I'm building.
Have you a copy of the dyno results? It will be very hard to get you to 300 but it can be done. Just remember that every extra bhp costs more than the one added before it. If you run the spec by me, I can offer suggestions. Will you be using a flapper or hotwire?Engine is fully balanced, with a race high lift solid Camshaft, Fully Gas flowed, 3 cut, Big Valves, 4.6 skimmed heads, cadmin(SP) bronze bullet guides, double springs, with wire grove, Group A adjustable rockers, solid lifters, pocketed 4.6 pistons. TVR 5.0 trumpet base, with thermo spacer. Balanced Lightweight Bullet Flywheel, Balanced custom pulley with trigger wheel.
running Emerald ECU with wasted spark. Should rev to 7K easy, with short bursts of 7.5k
So it's had quite a bit spent on it, heads work was 2K with valves, springs and rockers.
grahamw48 said:
'brummmie' got 296 @fly on the dyno from his hotwire 4 litre/stroked to 4.6. (Details in my link above)
He now has a LS-powered Cerb with over 600bhp.
My 400SE ( 'Real Steel' 218 cam) produced 195 @wheels + 250ftlbs @wheels.
Guess where that engine is now Graham?He now has a LS-powered Cerb with over 600bhp.
My 400SE ( 'Real Steel' 218 cam) produced 195 @wheels + 250ftlbs @wheels.
Edited by grahamw48 on Monday 1st August 15:43
I hope to be at York at the end of the month trying it out.
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