Discussion
My 350I is running a bit rich at the moment.
No worries, i will have it looked at as i am not too good with this stuff.
My Brother is over from the states on holiday at the moment and mentioned that it would be possible to convert to the carb and never have injection problems again.
I remember seeing a post about this a year or so ago.
Who's done it/any good/loss of soundtrack (popping)loss of power....pro's....cons ??
In anticipation
Gavin
No worries, i will have it looked at as i am not too good with this stuff.
My Brother is over from the states on holiday at the moment and mentioned that it would be possible to convert to the carb and never have injection problems again.
I remember seeing a post about this a year or so ago.
Who's done it/any good/loss of soundtrack (popping)loss of power....pro's....cons ??
In anticipation
Gavin
There are a few people who have done the conversion on Wedges, Griffs and the like. All to good effect. It is a simple conversion that gets rid of all the ecu and troublesome sensors which can come around with ageing efi systems. I think the preferred carb on these engines to the Holley is the Webber 500. There are many who will say it is a step back and should not be entertained but upon reading threads about people who have done it, i have only read good reviews. I know Rob Robertson from V8D has stated he is still a big fan of the carb. TVR Power have also sung its praises.
Touch wood my efi system is running ok but if problems arose in the future it is something i would certainly consider. I have run them previously on Rover V8`s, all to good effect.
If you speak to people running the Webber there is no real difference in mpg and some say better outright power. Also gets rid of the dreaded shunting if you engine is prone to this.
Having said all that for the same sort of money you could go new mappable ecu such as Megasquirt, this also gets rid of sensors. You then have the problems of mapping it though where as the carb is much simpler to set up.
Touch wood my efi system is running ok but if problems arose in the future it is something i would certainly consider. I have run them previously on Rover V8`s, all to good effect.
If you speak to people running the Webber there is no real difference in mpg and some say better outright power. Also gets rid of the dreaded shunting if you engine is prone to this.
Having said all that for the same sort of money you could go new mappable ecu such as Megasquirt, this also gets rid of sensors. You then have the problems of mapping it though where as the carb is much simpler to set up.
I have seen many swaps and done three.
The preferred carb is the Weber 500 (aka the Carter 500 or the Edelbrock Performer). The Holley 390 is a messy thing to set up and though the power is as good as the Weber, it has some running oddities. The Holley and the Weber use the same manifolds. The Weber is a modern, smart carb. Easy to performance tune. You even have an option of an electric choke if you are married.
If you have the clearance, use the Edelbrock Performer manifold. If not, you won't lose anything by using the JWR Offenshauser.
Power will be about the same or better..which is great. Mileage will be the same or a little less. Real Steel, Rpi, Rimmer and others will all sell you the kit. Or you can buy direct from Edelbrock and save a bit.
The preferred carb is the Weber 500 (aka the Carter 500 or the Edelbrock Performer). The Holley 390 is a messy thing to set up and though the power is as good as the Weber, it has some running oddities. The Holley and the Weber use the same manifolds. The Weber is a modern, smart carb. Easy to performance tune. You even have an option of an electric choke if you are married.
If you have the clearance, use the Edelbrock Performer manifold. If not, you won't lose anything by using the JWR Offenshauser.
Power will be about the same or better..which is great. Mileage will be the same or a little less. Real Steel, Rpi, Rimmer and others will all sell you the kit. Or you can buy direct from Edelbrock and save a bit.
after 12 months of expence and hassle with my 3.9 nck engined 350 i went the holley route straight out of the box no setting up probs with the standard jetting. in my opion it feels as if the motor was strangled from 35000 upwards now it flies and the induction noise is awesome yes most of the pops and bangs have gone but for me to no it starts first flick ticks over rock steady and just feels a heep more reliable was worth the expense.
mike
mike
I went the Edelbrock route as the feedback was that Holley was hard to keep in tune etc. The work is straight forward - don't get a garage to do it they'll charge a fortune. Drop me a line and I'll talk you through the key points if you decide to do the job. You can sell your Efi stuff and recover some of the cost.
My reasons for going the carb route is that later carbs are more reliable than a flaky old Efi system after mine started doing stupid things. I also dumped the Lucas Dizzy & Coil and switched to a Mallory Unilite, Promaster coil & Hyfire setup which is mega reliable with an uptake in power especially in throttle response, fuel economy is quite good to. I aslo chopped out some holes in the bonnet and dropped in 2 XKR bonnet vents which look the business. I'll post some pics if anyone's interested
As for the sound? I still get some popping but the roar of the air getting sucked in is a great substitute. Plus if there is a starting problem I know where to look if it's fuel related or electrical. f
k Resisters, Ohms & Injectors etc...
Dellorto's? Mega extreme.....lol
My reasons for going the carb route is that later carbs are more reliable than a flaky old Efi system after mine started doing stupid things. I also dumped the Lucas Dizzy & Coil and switched to a Mallory Unilite, Promaster coil & Hyfire setup which is mega reliable with an uptake in power especially in throttle response, fuel economy is quite good to. I aslo chopped out some holes in the bonnet and dropped in 2 XKR bonnet vents which look the business. I'll post some pics if anyone's interested
As for the sound? I still get some popping but the roar of the air getting sucked in is a great substitute. Plus if there is a starting problem I know where to look if it's fuel related or electrical. f
k Resisters, Ohms & Injectors etc...Dellorto's? Mega extreme.....lol
Edited by GV on Tuesday 20th September 18:24
Edited by GV on Tuesday 20th September 18:29
Seems hugely drastic to me to ditch what is a very effective fuel injection system, just becuase it's running rich.
The flapper system is very simple compared to modern EFI systems, and has very little to go wrong really. Once understood it should be easy to sort out.
Mine is running very badly at the moment, but a simple tweak of the plenum and AFM adjustment screws made an immediate difference.
I have no doubt that the main issue is stuck extra valve and various moving parts 'gummed up' through lack of maintenance.
If you're going to the hassle and expense of changing it all for a carb (a backwards step IMHO), you may as well strip, clean and rebuild the plenum anyway (on my list of jobs to do).
Also, despite everyone raving about the Weber 500, I strongly believe it's too big a carb for a 3.5. I have no personal experience with it, although FWIW my Dad used a Holley 390 on a highly tuned 3.5 RV8 for competition work many years ago. That, with an aggressive cam gave 205Hp at the wheels at 6500RPM.
Again, just my 2p worth. But IMHO I feel ditching the EFI would be a somewhat lazy, misguided step.
The flapper system is very simple compared to modern EFI systems, and has very little to go wrong really. Once understood it should be easy to sort out.
Mine is running very badly at the moment, but a simple tweak of the plenum and AFM adjustment screws made an immediate difference.
I have no doubt that the main issue is stuck extra valve and various moving parts 'gummed up' through lack of maintenance.
If you're going to the hassle and expense of changing it all for a carb (a backwards step IMHO), you may as well strip, clean and rebuild the plenum anyway (on my list of jobs to do).
Also, despite everyone raving about the Weber 500, I strongly believe it's too big a carb for a 3.5. I have no personal experience with it, although FWIW my Dad used a Holley 390 on a highly tuned 3.5 RV8 for competition work many years ago. That, with an aggressive cam gave 205Hp at the wheels at 6500RPM.
Again, just my 2p worth. But IMHO I feel ditching the EFI would be a somewhat lazy, misguided step.
voltage_maxx said:
Seems hugely drastic to me to ditch what is a very effective fuel injection system, just becuase it's running rich.
The flapper system is very simple compared to modern EFI systems, and has very little to go wrong really. Once understood it should be easy to sort out.
Mine is running very badly at the moment, but a simple tweak of the plenum and AFM adjustment screws made an immediate difference.
I have no doubt that the main issue is stuck extra valve and various moving parts 'gummed up' through lack of maintenance.
If you're going to the hassle and expense of changing it all for a carb (a backwards step IMHO), you may as well strip, clean and rebuild the plenum anyway (on my list of jobs to do).
Also, despite everyone raving about the Weber 500, I strongly believe it's too big a carb for a 3.5. I have no personal experience with it, although FWIW my Dad used a Holley 390 on a highly tuned 3.5 RV8 for competition work many years ago. That, with an aggressive cam gave 205Hp at the wheels at 6500RPM.
Again, just my 2p worth. But IMHO I feel ditching the EFI would be a somewhat lazy, misguided step.
Never fear Maxx, just sounding out opinions.The flapper system is very simple compared to modern EFI systems, and has very little to go wrong really. Once understood it should be easy to sort out.
Mine is running very badly at the moment, but a simple tweak of the plenum and AFM adjustment screws made an immediate difference.
I have no doubt that the main issue is stuck extra valve and various moving parts 'gummed up' through lack of maintenance.
If you're going to the hassle and expense of changing it all for a carb (a backwards step IMHO), you may as well strip, clean and rebuild the plenum anyway (on my list of jobs to do).
Also, despite everyone raving about the Weber 500, I strongly believe it's too big a carb for a 3.5. I have no personal experience with it, although FWIW my Dad used a Holley 390 on a highly tuned 3.5 RV8 for competition work many years ago. That, with an aggressive cam gave 205Hp at the wheels at 6500RPM.
Again, just my 2p worth. But IMHO I feel ditching the EFI would be a somewhat lazy, misguided step.
I have no intention of doing it at this time...especially as she is only running rich !!
Wanted to know pro's and cons should the EFI system ever have a massive cardiac and i get to hacked off to continue !!
Solitude said:
Never fear Maxx, just sounding out opinions.
I have no intention of doing it at this time...especially as she is only running rich !!
Wanted to know pro's and cons should the EFI system ever have a massive cardiac and i get to hacked off to continue !!
Well, there's no doubt that a good carb set-up can be very good indeed. I'm far from anti-carb, a good carb set-up is a lovely thing and of course very easy to tune and set up.I have no intention of doing it at this time...especially as she is only running rich !!
Wanted to know pro's and cons should the EFI system ever have a massive cardiac and i get to hacked off to continue !!
My main issue is that the Flapper EFI system must be one of the simplest EFI systems ever.
There's very little to it, and it should be fairly easy to diagnose any problems.
Parts are readily available, thanks to all the Range Rovers it was fitted to. Indeed, I picked up a 2nd air flow meter for a tenner at a Land Rover show the other week!
Again, just my 2p worth.
Bob.
voltage_maxx said:
Seems hugely drastic to me to ditch what is a very effective fuel injection system, just because it's running rich.
Running rich is a often a sign of a bum ECU. voltage_maxx said:
The flapper system is very simple compared to modern EFI systems, and has very little to go wrong really. Once understood it should be easy to sort out.
Very true. IMHO, it is even easier than carbs!voltage_maxx said:
Also, despite everyone raving about the Weber 500, I strongly believe it's too big a carb for a 3.5. I have no personal experience with it, although FWIW my Dad used a Holley 390 on a highly tuned 3.5 RV8 for competition work many years ago. That, with an aggressive cam gave 205Hp at the wheels at 6500RPM.
I have installed a few Holleys and many Webers. I dread the former. Messy set up and tuning and then it needs redoing. Expect to be fuel covered. Weber is great. Set it up with the right needles and then forget it. If you want to play a bit, a needle kit with many options cis inexpensive. Power is as good as the Holley expect the Weber has no "bad spots". voltage_maxx said:
Again, just my 2p worth. But IMHO I feel ditching the EFI would be a somewhat lazy, misguided step.
(shrug) Some people don't like the hassles. A Weber is an excellent option.P.
P.S. If the block size in increased..you just buy different jets and needle.
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