Replacing all the rear bushes
Discussion
Hi peeps..This is something that i got a feeling is next on the list but im not in a position to do..I dont have access to a press or torque wrenches so it might have to go to someone to replace them..Is this going to cost an arm and leg?..I was going to have a look at the outriggers but i cant be taking off sills outside in the street..Also are they pop riveted on as well as bolted?..I was going to leave the chassis until next year and save up and send it to RT for a chassis restoration as it seems a reasonable price for what they do..But with the O/S rear wheel sticking out as much as it is im not sure its going to last that long...Also what would be a good replacement for shocks front and rear on a 280?..Cheers..Ziga
Hey Zig, you could do the bushes with a vice really but if you take the bits off a garage would put the new ones in for you maybe? I did mine a couple of years ago, it's not a massive job just a bugger if you have any seized bolts.
Have you got axle stands, jack etc? If so then go for it.
Shocks? I'd go for Gaz I think, but that's up to you.
Have you got axle stands, jack etc? If so then go for it.
Shocks? I'd go for Gaz I think, but that's up to you.
PoleDriver said:
I've done most of mine, bit drastic, but I burned the old ones out with a blow torch, much quicker!
I did something similar, used a blow torch to heat up the inner metal - playing the blow torch through the inner sleeve alternatively from both ends,when the bond broke between the rubber and metal I just pushed the inner sleeves out. I then used a hacksaw to remove the outer sleeve. Much quicker than drilling the rubber. Once you get a feel for how much heat you require and apply it in the right place, you get hardly any smoke or burning of the rubber. ROOODBOY said:
Why do you need shocks all of a sudden?
Hi Mate..I dont..I was just looking into it for later on.. 
Would an electric heat gun have the same efffect..I dont like the idea of flame and petrol vapour..I still get a whiff under the car, Could be the breather..Although there is still a stain on my driver side tank near the filler and im not going there again..Cheers..Ziga
mrzigazaga said:
Cheers chaps..It sounds easy to get them out..maybe not so putting them back in...I will speak to RT as regards to the bushes on monday..Cheers..Ziga
MarkYou like looking in the bible, study it a bit more! It tells you in there all you need is a Vise (Thats not the type of women you like) but an engineering one!
Andy
pjtvr390se said:
I did something similar, used a blow torch to heat up the inner metal - playing the blow torch through the inner sleeve alternatively from both ends,when the bond broke between the rubber and metal I just pushed the inner sleeves out. I then used a hacksaw to remove the outer sleeve. Much quicker than drilling the rubber. Once you get a feel for how much heat you require and apply it in the right place, you get hardly any smoke or burning of the rubber.
That's the method I used, very quick!pjtvr390se said:
mrzigazaga said:
Would an electric heat gun have the same efffect..
No I don't think a heat gun will get them hot enough, you have got to unbolt them anyway, so you can move them away from the car to get the bushes out or am I missing something?Cheers chaps..A blowtorch it is then..I did have a vice but i give up smoking..Or is it not that sort of vice?..
..I will ring RT tomorrow to see how much the bushes are..I hope theres nothing major wrong as i went out today for a spin into london..Had a coffee with phil..(Transmitter man)..Everyone was looking at the car..Even had a photo taken on the way home..Weather is superb and cant wait for the heatwave next week..I love you delilah even though you are a bit of a cow sometimes..Cheers..Ziga
..I will ring RT tomorrow to see how much the bushes are..I hope theres nothing major wrong as i went out today for a spin into london..Had a coffee with phil..(Transmitter man)..Everyone was looking at the car..Even had a photo taken on the way home..Weather is superb and cant wait for the heatwave next week..I love you delilah even though you are a bit of a cow sometimes..Cheers..ZigaHi Mark, i have just replaced my inner bushes on the A frame as i had the diff out for new discs and calipers and got nylon bushes from RT Racing on his recommendation and can tell a difference in handling. the guy that did the bushes for me said it wasnt a big job to do and a couple of hours labour saw it done. bushes cost me £15.95 each.
Hi Peeps..I called Dan taylor today and ask for a quote on replacing all the lower wishbone and suspension bushes..Replacing one trailing arm pin and bush..(The other didnt get fitted by the ford garage?)and doing the 4 wheel alignment and they said it would come to no more than £250 inc Vat and parts which i think is a good price..So its booked in for next week..Cheers..Ziga
Hi Phil..Stock im affraid..The poly bushes come to £15.95 ea X 4 + 1 X £20 + £20 for trailing arm pin and £25 for the bush...Then theres Vat on it..And postage..So comes to over £150..I will have to order the pin and bush as i did buy two a while back but the ford garage couldnt get the pin out of the passenger side?..He had a new one there so i dont know why he didnt just cut the top off the old pin?..Im hoping he can find them as i didnt get them back..To be honest i was expecting it to cost an arm and leg with a TVR man but i think that is a fair price for both sides and peace of mind..Is it just a matter of the poly bushes lasting longer or would there be any other benefit..Im assuming that the original ones have lasted this long so with stock ones they should last a fair while..Cheers..Ziga
Polyurethane bushes don't necessarily last any longer, nor do they necessarily improve the ride or handling, nor do they guarantee unbridled rumpy-pumpy with the barmaid of your choice (unless your wife happens to be a barmaid...;)).
If you study the construction of most poly bushes, there's an outer sleeve, aninner sleeve and the polurethane bit keeping them apart. SImialr to a stock 'Metalastik' bonded rubber buch, except that the Metalastik is bonded and the poly isn't. Typically, the iner sleeve is clamped tight by the 'pivot' bolt and the outer sleeve is press-fit in whatever arm it's locating. So when the arm is displaced, the rubber distorts out of shape and then springs back again. Allegedly, the compliance of the bushes are taken into account by the suspension designer.
With the polybush, the sleeves are secured in the same manner but there's no connection between them and the polyurethane other than friction, so when the arm moves, the poly doesn't pull it back again. Also, ingress of water and dirt (which can't happen with a Metalastik) creates a lovely abrasive that shags (for want of a better word) the polyurethane. The makers try to slow down this effect by using stainless steel for the inner and outer sleeves.
Over time, the polyurethane distorts due to the static laods presented to it. Quite often you'll take off a suspension arm and find the poly has an ovalled bore or other distortion from which it can't recover - unlike standard rubber types. I used poly for my drop links and antiroll bar and they all look like they've melted. Granted, rubber doesn't last forever, but take all the above and add in the fact that the firmer compound, whilst undoubtedly providing more positive location than rubber, also transmits more vibration and shock loads to the chassis than would otherwise reach it. Fine for the track but maybe not so much for a road car that, let's face it, doesn't spend more than a fraction of the time being driven 'enthusiastically'.
I know that a few people on here have switched to poly to varying degrees and some of them have already reported that it's not the panacea that some would like you to believe. I suspect that to keep a polybushed setup 'in tune' would require at least as many rebuilds as with standard Metalastiks - but at greater component cost. I also suspect that it may pay to be on good terms with a competent welder, to keep on top of the chassis cracks
If you study the construction of most poly bushes, there's an outer sleeve, aninner sleeve and the polurethane bit keeping them apart. SImialr to a stock 'Metalastik' bonded rubber buch, except that the Metalastik is bonded and the poly isn't. Typically, the iner sleeve is clamped tight by the 'pivot' bolt and the outer sleeve is press-fit in whatever arm it's locating. So when the arm is displaced, the rubber distorts out of shape and then springs back again. Allegedly, the compliance of the bushes are taken into account by the suspension designer.
With the polybush, the sleeves are secured in the same manner but there's no connection between them and the polyurethane other than friction, so when the arm moves, the poly doesn't pull it back again. Also, ingress of water and dirt (which can't happen with a Metalastik) creates a lovely abrasive that shags (for want of a better word) the polyurethane. The makers try to slow down this effect by using stainless steel for the inner and outer sleeves.
Over time, the polyurethane distorts due to the static laods presented to it. Quite often you'll take off a suspension arm and find the poly has an ovalled bore or other distortion from which it can't recover - unlike standard rubber types. I used poly for my drop links and antiroll bar and they all look like they've melted. Granted, rubber doesn't last forever, but take all the above and add in the fact that the firmer compound, whilst undoubtedly providing more positive location than rubber, also transmits more vibration and shock loads to the chassis than would otherwise reach it. Fine for the track but maybe not so much for a road car that, let's face it, doesn't spend more than a fraction of the time being driven 'enthusiastically'.
I know that a few people on here have switched to poly to varying degrees and some of them have already reported that it's not the panacea that some would like you to believe. I suspect that to keep a polybushed setup 'in tune' would require at least as many rebuilds as with standard Metalastiks - but at greater component cost. I also suspect that it may pay to be on good terms with a competent welder, to keep on top of the chassis cracks
Wedg1e said:
Polyurethane bushes don't necessarily last any longer, nor do they necessarily improve the ride or handling, nor do they guarantee unbridled rumpy-pumpy with the barmaid of your choice (unless your wife happens to be a barmaid...;)).
If you study the construction of most poly bushes, there's an outer sleeve, aninner sleeve and the polurethane bit keeping them apart. SImialr to a stock 'Metalastik' bonded rubber buch, except that the Metalastik is bonded and the poly isn't. Typically, the iner sleeve is clamped tight by the 'pivot' bolt and the outer sleeve is press-fit in whatever arm it's locating. So when the arm is displaced, the rubber distorts out of shape and then springs back again. Allegedly, the compliance of the bushes are taken into account by the suspension designer.
With the polybush, the sleeves are secured in the same manner but there's no connection between them and the polyurethane other than friction, so when the arm moves, the poly doesn't pull it back again. Also, ingress of water and dirt (which can't happen with a Metalastik) creates a lovely abrasive that shags (for want of a better word) the polyurethane. The makers try to slow down this effect by using stainless steel for the inner and outer sleeves.
Over time, the polyurethane distorts due to the static laods presented to it. Quite often you'll take off a suspension arm and find the poly has an ovalled bore or other distortion from which it can't recover - unlike standard rubber types. I used poly for my drop links and antiroll bar and they all look like they've melted. Granted, rubber doesn't last forever, but take all the above and add in the fact that the firmer compound, whilst undoubtedly providing more positive location than rubber, also transmits more vibration and shock loads to the chassis than would otherwise reach it. Fine for the track but maybe not so much for a road car that, let's face it, doesn't spend more than a fraction of the time being driven 'enthusiastically'.
I know that a few people on here have switched to poly to varying degrees and some of them have already reported that it's not the panacea that some would like you to believe. I suspect that to keep a polybushed setup 'in tune' would require at least as many rebuilds as with standard Metalastiks - but at greater component cost. I also suspect that it may pay to be on good terms with a competent welder, to keep on top of the chassis cracks
Totally agree Wedg1e. the only time anyone can say for sure how good they are or not is if they do back to back comparison of new to new. I have read about loads of people saying just how good poly bushes are, I changed my bushes a while back and didn't go the poly route, mine is 100% secure and planted on the road. Why should I spend £150 + on poly when for a 3rd of that I got the same effect. Maybe they won't last as long (degrading wise) as poly but I could do mine 3 times for the same price. So if rubber only lasts say 5 years then 3 changes in 15 years aint bad. I bet poly won't last 15 years and still be top notch. If you study the construction of most poly bushes, there's an outer sleeve, aninner sleeve and the polurethane bit keeping them apart. SImialr to a stock 'Metalastik' bonded rubber buch, except that the Metalastik is bonded and the poly isn't. Typically, the iner sleeve is clamped tight by the 'pivot' bolt and the outer sleeve is press-fit in whatever arm it's locating. So when the arm is displaced, the rubber distorts out of shape and then springs back again. Allegedly, the compliance of the bushes are taken into account by the suspension designer.
With the polybush, the sleeves are secured in the same manner but there's no connection between them and the polyurethane other than friction, so when the arm moves, the poly doesn't pull it back again. Also, ingress of water and dirt (which can't happen with a Metalastik) creates a lovely abrasive that shags (for want of a better word) the polyurethane. The makers try to slow down this effect by using stainless steel for the inner and outer sleeves.
Over time, the polyurethane distorts due to the static laods presented to it. Quite often you'll take off a suspension arm and find the poly has an ovalled bore or other distortion from which it can't recover - unlike standard rubber types. I used poly for my drop links and antiroll bar and they all look like they've melted. Granted, rubber doesn't last forever, but take all the above and add in the fact that the firmer compound, whilst undoubtedly providing more positive location than rubber, also transmits more vibration and shock loads to the chassis than would otherwise reach it. Fine for the track but maybe not so much for a road car that, let's face it, doesn't spend more than a fraction of the time being driven 'enthusiastically'.
I know that a few people on here have switched to poly to varying degrees and some of them have already reported that it's not the panacea that some would like you to believe. I suspect that to keep a polybushed setup 'in tune' would require at least as many rebuilds as with standard Metalastiks - but at greater component cost. I also suspect that it may pay to be on good terms with a competent welder, to keep on top of the chassis cracks
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