Frustrated..won't fire.
Discussion
Having diagnosed my old dizzy as being knackered, and replacing it, can't get it to fire now. The timing is about right, in fact everything went back together as it came out, and as advised, it should fire and run even if a bit rough, if the timings out.
I have power to the supply wiring to the new diz but no spark. Run out of ideas and expertise.
Appreciate any thoughts or ideas.
Cheers
I have power to the supply wiring to the new diz but no spark. Run out of ideas and expertise.
Appreciate any thoughts or ideas.
Cheers
after talking to dan at taylor tvr today if its not a genuine lucas cap and rotor you're wasting your time and money, they are very fussy and to try ACT http://www.actproducts.co.uk/
The cap and rotor are fine, as it was running ok prior to the distributor failing.
I have tried a couple of further tests from previous diagnosis sequence from honestjohn2 and it appears that either the coil and amplifier are now faulty.
The amp is original (therefore nearly 30 yrs old) and the coil new a year or so ago.
I can get sparking off the coil negative using a flying lead when cranking the engine, but not with just the ignition on. I presume this is correct and therefore the amp is knackered.
I have tried the amp diagnostic check using a bulb and flying lead from the restitor on the amp to the positive on the coil and no flash when turning rotor by hand against spring.
I have tried a couple of further tests from previous diagnosis sequence from honestjohn2 and it appears that either the coil and amplifier are now faulty.
The amp is original (therefore nearly 30 yrs old) and the coil new a year or so ago.
I can get sparking off the coil negative using a flying lead when cranking the engine, but not with just the ignition on. I presume this is correct and therefore the amp is knackered.
I have tried the amp diagnostic check using a bulb and flying lead from the restitor on the amp to the positive on the coil and no flash when turning rotor by hand against spring.
So just to clarify, you pulled the cap off the dizzy, leaving all ignition leads connected.
Then you pulled the dizzy out and the rotor arm off, noting the position of the arm.
The put the new dizzy in, with the rotor arm in the same position (not 180 degress out).
Around the same time the ignition amp was moved from the old dizzy to the new dizzy, and you used thermal paste to mount the amp on the plate.
If I got any of this wrong, please correct me....
Then you pulled the dizzy out and the rotor arm off, noting the position of the arm.
The put the new dizzy in, with the rotor arm in the same position (not 180 degress out).
Around the same time the ignition amp was moved from the old dizzy to the new dizzy, and you used thermal paste to mount the amp on the plate.
If I got any of this wrong, please correct me....
adam quantrill said:
So just to clarify, you pulled the cap off the dizzy, leaving all ignition leads connected.
Then you pulled the dizzy out and the rotor arm off, noting the position of the arm.
The put the new dizzy in, with the rotor arm in the same position (not 180 degress out).
Around the same time the ignition amp was moved from the old dizzy to the new dizzy, and you used thermal paste to mount the amp on the plate.
If I got any of this wrong, please correct me....
Hi AdamThen you pulled the dizzy out and the rotor arm off, noting the position of the arm.
The put the new dizzy in, with the rotor arm in the same position (not 180 degress out).
Around the same time the ignition amp was moved from the old dizzy to the new dizzy, and you used thermal paste to mount the amp on the plate.
If I got any of this wrong, please correct me....
interesting post mate, as i did not know that you had to mark the postion of the rotor when removed, so thats where i have gone horribly wrong and asume that by this could have knocked my cam timing completely out and therefore the reason i have a knocking from the centre of the engine???, please could you advise on how i could re-set please, sorry to but in on your thread mate
Regards
Ralph
Regards
Ralph
No worries looks like a lot of these threads are converging.
When you take the dizzy out you will notice a slot that engages with the oil pump drive.
Actually thinking about it the dizzy is driven off the cog isn't it, but you want it to go back in on the same cog teeth as it was when you took it out. So that's why you mark the position of the rotor arm.
When you put it back make sure the oil pump slot is aligned or it won't seat properly. If you are getting oil pressure then you're probably fine. But otherwise you may get gnashing of teeth and rattling!
I'm not sure how many possibilities there are for getting it "wrong" but mostly it's either pointing to the correct cylinder spark lead, or 180 degrees out. Everything else can be dialled out by rotating the dizzy.
When you take the dizzy out you will notice a slot that engages with the oil pump drive.
Actually thinking about it the dizzy is driven off the cog isn't it, but you want it to go back in on the same cog teeth as it was when you took it out. So that's why you mark the position of the rotor arm.
When you put it back make sure the oil pump slot is aligned or it won't seat properly. If you are getting oil pressure then you're probably fine. But otherwise you may get gnashing of teeth and rattling!
I'm not sure how many possibilities there are for getting it "wrong" but mostly it's either pointing to the correct cylinder spark lead, or 180 degrees out. Everything else can be dialled out by rotating the dizzy.
adam quantrill said:
No worries looks like a lot of these threads are converging.
When you take the dizzy out you will notice a slot that engages with the oil pump drive.
Actually thinking about it the dizzy is driven off the cog isn't it, but you want it to go back in on the same cog teeth as it was when you took it out. So that's why you mark the position of the rotor arm.
When you put it back make sure the oil pump slot is aligned or it won't seat properly. If you are getting oil pressure then you're probably fine. But otherwise you may get gnashing of teeth and rattling!
I'm not sure how many possibilities there are for getting it "wrong" but mostly it's either pointing to the correct cylinder spark lead, or 180 degrees out. Everything else can be dialled out by rotating the dizzy.
i thought the dizzy was driven by the heli gear and that the slot at the bottom engaged the oil pump drive and turned the oil pump, so is it the other way then.... the oil pump drives the slot at bottom of dizzy and then the heli cog on dizzy turns the cams? When you take the dizzy out you will notice a slot that engages with the oil pump drive.
Actually thinking about it the dizzy is driven off the cog isn't it, but you want it to go back in on the same cog teeth as it was when you took it out. So that's why you mark the position of the rotor arm.
When you put it back make sure the oil pump slot is aligned or it won't seat properly. If you are getting oil pressure then you're probably fine. But otherwise you may get gnashing of teeth and rattling!
I'm not sure how many possibilities there are for getting it "wrong" but mostly it's either pointing to the correct cylinder spark lead, or 180 degrees out. Everything else can be dialled out by rotating the dizzy.
al 350i said:
i thought the dizzy was driven by the heli gear and that the slot at the bottom engaged the oil pump drive and turned the oil pump, so is it the other way then.... the oil pump drives the slot at bottom of dizzy and then the heli cog on dizzy turns the cams?
Guys here's my take on the situation please correct me if i am wrong guys, so the crank chain drive runs the cam, the cam then runs the dizzy by the means of a cam drive gear, so in real terms its pretty impossible to get the timing wrong unless you time the engine on the exhaust stoke/ 180 out, so as long as piston 1 is tdc ( compression stoke) and you install the rotor to cylinder 1 the engine must then be timed correctly.So the only issue i could see then that if the chain has jumped ( not sure if thats possible) then the crank would not be timed to the cam thus the hole engine is firing incorrectly, boy my brain hurts lol
So to sum up guys i think maybe i have been reading to much into this area as i cant for the life of me see where else you can go wrong, hope this helps guys
Hi Guys, thanks for all the replies but as as stated, looks we've crossed over a bit.
I'm happy with the timing that was never the problem.
Adam...the dizzy was a direct replacement and I didn't need to remove anything from the old to the new.
I was referring to the ignition amplifier (if I'm using the correct name)which is a black square box about 3 inches square and an inch thick which sits under my ignition coil, which I think may be the problem.
From the tests I've been doing so far I've think I've narrowed it down to either coil of ignition amp.
As always running on a budget, so never like chucking new bits at it just for changing for change sake.
Cheers
I'm happy with the timing that was never the problem.
Adam...the dizzy was a direct replacement and I didn't need to remove anything from the old to the new.
I was referring to the ignition amplifier (if I'm using the correct name)which is a black square box about 3 inches square and an inch thick which sits under my ignition coil, which I think may be the problem.
From the tests I've been doing so far I've think I've narrowed it down to either coil of ignition amp.
As always running on a budget, so never like chucking new bits at it just for changing for change sake.
Cheers
bradderztvr said:
Hi Guys, thanks for all the replies but as as stated, looks we've crossed over a bit.
I'm happy with the timing that was never the problem.
Adam...the dizzy was a direct replacement and I didn't need to remove anything from the old to the new.
I was referring to the ignition amplifier (if I'm using the correct name)which is a black square box about 3 inches square and an inch thick which sits under my ignition coil, which I think may be the problem.
From the tests I've been doing so far I've think I've narrowed it down to either coil of ignition amp.
As always running on a budget, so never like chucking new bits at it just for changing for change sake.
Cheers
Hi BradderztvrI'm happy with the timing that was never the problem.
Adam...the dizzy was a direct replacement and I didn't need to remove anything from the old to the new.
I was referring to the ignition amplifier (if I'm using the correct name)which is a black square box about 3 inches square and an inch thick which sits under my ignition coil, which I think may be the problem.
From the tests I've been doing so far I've think I've narrowed it down to either coil of ignition amp.
As always running on a budget, so never like chucking new bits at it just for changing for change sake.
Cheers
Just something i came across mate, check that the plug on the rear of the iginition amplifier has not come lose mate and also check the wires and the coil is easy to check mate, just stick a plug on the end of a plug lead and earth it, if it sparks job done and ensure you have 12v of the + output to the amp, good luck and sorry for posting on your thread, regards ralph
Ralph, no worries, and yes, I've done that test and no spark, so I recon for a simple start I need to replace the coil, which even on my budget aren't that expensive.
Oh...and yep I have checked the elec connections and all are secure and clean.
I,m just dreading the thought of forking out for a new replacement amplifier which sits under the coil, as the ones nearest to mine on fleabay are around 70-80 squid, and look like the ones fitted to early V8 1980's Range Rovers.
Cheers
Oh...and yep I have checked the elec connections and all are secure and clean.
I,m just dreading the thought of forking out for a new replacement amplifier which sits under the coil, as the ones nearest to mine on fleabay are around 70-80 squid, and look like the ones fitted to early V8 1980's Range Rovers.
Cheers
bradderztvr said:
Adam, sorry to be a numpty but not sure we are talking about the same thing when we say amp ?
What I call the ignition amplifier is a block bolted to the engine wheel arch with the coil clamped ontop.
Can you clarify what you mean
Cheers for the help
i know it seems simple but are the wires on the ignition module on the right way round and have you check continuity of -ve going to coil and also going back to ecu. What I call the ignition amplifier is a block bolted to the engine wheel arch with the coil clamped ontop.
Can you clarify what you mean
Cheers for the help
i haven't got a block under coil! its just bolted to a bracket then to the wing.
adam quantrill said:
The ignition amplifier is a funny shape about 1cm thick bolted to the side of the dizzy usually. Black with one aluminium face.
Hi AdamThe amp being discussed is the early one which is on the nearside front wing and the coil bolts to it! It was a SDI/Range Rover original part. It was fitted to the early 350i I am not certain when they changed over to the dissy fitted one!
They come up on f-bay now and again.
Andy
Gassing Station | Wedges | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff