Serial #s & DoFR

[streaky]

I reported before BBWF04 that I had spoted some apparent "anomalies" between serial numbers and dates of first registration. Talking to Chris Schirle on the Saturday suggested this might not be all that unusual - being TVR , although he did think that the serial number part of the VIN (last six digits) should be sequential. He did say that the other elements of the VIN were interpreted "freely" by TVR - i.e. they didn't (always) follow the international coding system.

Anyway, and FWIW, the following lists the serial number part of the VIN (or pre-VIN) for cars that were apparently first registered BEFORE a "later" serial number. In some cases this can be OVER ONE YEAR beforehand ... which stongly suggests there is nothing that can be inferred from the number in relation to the relative build date of DoFR.

Streaky
==

5220
5230
5580
5959
11443
19105
19118
19157
19226
19263
19282
19295
19335
19371
19391
19394
19398
19431
19469
19477
19481
19494
19502
19529
19545
19565
19647

[dickymint]

Interesting as mine is one of those numbers.
Must check it against my 350 as it was registered the same year.
i have been told that the chassis were assigned numbers and not the cars, so could be hanging around for ages.
maybe its a method of manipulating the annual accounts/stock figures thingy!!!

[JONRES]

Mine was one of those numbers as well, although having spoken to several people at BBWF, other evidence, such as the petrol tank cap type, interior instrumentation, the exhaust pipe routing (down the transmission tunnel along side the gear lever!) and the fact all the leads are black suggests my car was in fact built at least a year earlier than it was registered. Wierd. Anyone else have any further thoughts on this?

[taimar78]

In maintaining a registry, first for the Tasmin/280i series, and expanding it for all models for the TVRCC North America, I have found through the years many anomalies in the serial numbers not just for the wedges but for most models of TVR up to that point.
Some, as has previously been mentioned, may have been sequential numbers yet have production dates up to a year apart. There are also some cars which show up in the records as a 350i when, in fact, they are a 280i or RHD when they are LHD and vice versa. What I have learned from watching this for at least the last 15 years is that record keeping at the factory was very sloppy, at best.

[grahamw48]

My 280i (FH5010F1), was apparently built 1980, but not registered until 2/9/83 !

[shpub]

JONRES said:

Mine was one of those numbers as well, although having spoken to several people at BBWF, other evidence, such as the petrol tank cap type, interior instrumentation, the exhaust pipe routing (down the transmission tunnel along side the gear lever!) and the fact all the leads are black suggests my car was in fact built at least a year earlier than it was registered. Wierd. Anyone else have any further thoughts on this?

1. Wedges were often built using bits that were left over which makes sequential dating based on features very difficult.
2. Many cars sat at the factory ot at dealers before being registered.
3. Many chassis were built in advance and allocated the chassis number at that point but where often not completed for some time afterwqards.
4. There were supply problems and so it is not uncommon for bits to changed just for one or two models.
5. Chassis numbers and descriptions varied because they often had the paperwork for one model but wanted to ship another varient.
6. The only standard wedge was the last one off the production oine and even that was modified

[petercam]

I'm interested in this too, as I cannot determine whether I have a 390SE or a 350i. My chassis serial number is the one prior to the 1st 390SE listed in the bible, and 3 years ago I spoke to the TVR registrar guy, who told me it was a 350, but its badged as a 390SE.
Anyone know what to look for to ID it one way or another? Is there a list of engine serial numbers?

[shpub]

The 390SE sticker costs about £2.

Ringing Wedges was very common in the late 80s/early 90s or even into the early 2000, especially as a 350 could be turned into one of the more expensive kinds for not much money!

[wedg1e]

petercam said:

I'm interested in this too, as I cannot determine whether I have a 390SE or a 350i. My chassis serial number is the one prior to the 1st 390SE listed in the bible, and 3 years ago I spoke to the TVR registrar guy, who told me it was a 350, but its badged as a 390SE. Anyone know what to look for to ID it one way or another? Is there a list of engine serial numbers?

Quickest way would be to pull a cylinder head off and measure the bores .
Otherwise, the chassis number was total bollocks anyway: getting type approval for another variant would have been too costly so TVR used the '35' part of the VIN on the 390 as well (as on my car, which IS a 390SE) making it 'look' like a 350.
There was an article on TVRWedgepages about a guy who bought what he thought was a 390SE but it was a 350 with 390 badges, but IIRC none of the bodykit, so it should have been fairly obvious if he'd done his homework.
Other clues as to whether yours is a 390SE include: fuel lines run along the sill and not the spine; limited-slip diff fitted; NCK engine number (if it's an early car); oil cooler; vented bonnet; adjustable fuel pressure regulator; vented discs (can't recall if the 350 got those as well?). I'm assuming here that it has the 'correct' bodykit - or most of it, and hasn't been hugely modified by previous owners...

Ian

[streaky]

wedg1e said:

petercam said: I'm interested in this too, as I cannot determine whether I have a 390SE or a 350i. My chassis serial number is the one prior to the 1st 390SE listed in the bible, and 3 years ago I spoke to the TVR registrar guy, who told me it was a 350, but its badged as a 390SE. Anyone know what to look for to ID it one way or another? Is there a list of engine serial numbers? Quickest way would be to pull a cylinder head off and measure the bores . Otherwise, the chassis number was total bollocks anyway: getting type approval for another variant would have been too costly so TVR used the '35' part of the VIN on the 390 as well (as on my car, which IS a 390SE) making it 'look' like a 350. There was an article on TVRWedgepages about a guy who bought what he thought was a 390SE but it was a 350 with 390 badges, but IIRC none of the bodykit, so it should have been fairly obvious if he'd done his homework. Other clues as to whether yours is a 390SE include: fuel lines run along the sill and not the spine; limited-slip diff fitted; NCK engine number (if it's an early car); oil cooler; vented bonnet; adjustable fuel pressure regulator; vented discs (can't recall if the 350 got those as well?). I'm assuming here that it has the 'correct' bodykit - or most of it, and hasn't been hugely modified by previous owners... Ian

Humm, not strictly true. Mine was road-tested by Fast Lane with a non-vented bonnet (see profile). Considering that the car was originally produced in blue but within a few days was resprayed black, the bonnet might have been "original". CS did say that he vaguely recalled the bonnet being filched off another car before it went out of the door, but he couldn't remember why (perhaps a minor factory "accident"?). He also couldn't recall when it got a vented bonnet back ... but certainly very sortly after its return to the factory. It was the 14th 390Se built and the first to be completed in 1985 (late February) - Streaky

[shpub]

BTW the first 390SE's had Andy Rouse engines and not NGK ones.

[wedg1e]

streaky said:

wedg1e said: petercam said: I'm interested in this too, as I cannot determine whether I have a 390SE or a 350i. My chassis serial number is the one prior to the 1st 390SE listed in the bible, and 3 years ago I spoke to the TVR registrar guy, who told me it was a 350, but its badged as a 390SE. Anyone know what to look for to ID it one way or another? Is there a list of engine serial numbers? Quickest way would be to pull a cylinder head off and measure the bores . Otherwise, the chassis number was total bollocks anyway: getting type approval for another variant would have been too costly so TVR used the '35' part of the VIN on the 390 as well (as on my car, which IS a 390SE) making it 'look' like a 350. There was an article on TVRWedgepages about a guy who bought what he thought was a 390SE but it was a 350 with 390 badges, but IIRC none of the bodykit, so it should have been fairly obvious if he'd done his homework. Other clues as to whether yours is a 390SE include: fuel lines run along the sill and not the spine; limited-slip diff fitted; NCK engine number (if it's an early car); oil cooler; vented bonnet; adjustable fuel pressure regulator; vented discs (can't recall if the 350 got those as well?). I'm assuming here that it has the 'correct' bodykit - or most of it, and hasn't been hugely modified by previous owners... Ian Humm, not strictly true. Mine was road-tested by Fast Lane with a non-vented bonnet (see profile). Considering that the car was originally produced in blue but within a few days was resprayed black, the bonnet might have been "original". CS did say that he vaguely recalled the bonnet being filched off another car before it went out of the door, but he couldn't remember why (perhaps a minor factory "accident"?). He also couldn't recall when it got a vented bonnet back ... but certainly very sortly after its return to the factory. It was the 14th 390Se built and the first to be completed in 1985 (late February) - Streaky

Not a positive ID by itself I accept, but as part of the typical 390SE package, the vented bonnet, like the rear wing, is 'expected' to be there. I know that there are 350s out there with the vented bonnet as well, but if I was looking, the absence of a good many of the 'features' would lead me to be suspicious... as, indeed, myself and others were when you first showed up on here with your car We could forgive the prototype for being different, but not ALL of them...
Another example might be the Tasmin Turbo: we all know that there is only one FHC: it's so distinctive it would be difficult to copy, and nobody in their right mind is going to try and pass off a standard 2.8 with a turbo as the genuine article. However, there was also a black DHC, which had hardly any visual differences, and at various times down the years, black 280 DHCs have appeared that all claimed to tbe the factory car. Needless to say, when you ask for the chassis number it has mysteriously disappeared Last one I saw was in 2000, somewhere in darkest Durham... IIRC the genuine article was for sale on PH last year (by a reliable dealer).

Ian

[petercam]

wedg1e said:

Quickest way would be to pull a cylinder head off and measure the bores .

with my mechanical skills this is a no-no!

wedg1e said:

There was an article on TVRWedgepages about a guy who bought what he thought was a 390SE but it was a 350 with 390 badges, but IIRC none of the bodykit, so it should have been fairly obvious if he'd done his homework.

This is my car, and yes I bought the first one I saw (you learn from your mistakes). Also as I live in Scotland, there were not exactly an over abundance of cars to look at without traipsing all round the country. I saw Streaky's car in his profile recently, and it looked fairly similar to mine, as I'd never seen another early 390SE example before.

wedg1e said:

Other clues as to whether yours is a 390SE include: fuel lines run along the sill and not the spine;

Spine

wedg1e said:

limited-slip diff fitted;

How do you tell it is LSD?

wedg1e said:

NCK engine number (if it's an early car);

Do you mean the engine number starts with NCK? (I don't think it does, and its the original engine according to the plate on the inner wing)

wedg1e said:

oil cooler;]

No

wedg1e said:

vented bonnet;

Yes

wedg1e said:

adjustable fuel pressure regulator;

Don't think so.

wedg1e said:

vented discs (can't recall if the 350 got those as well?).

Got them now, but was solid disks when I bought it

wedg1e said:

I'm assuming here that it has the 'correct' bodykit - or most of it, and hasn't been hugely modified by previous owners...

Its got a rear spoiler.
Ian
[/quote]

I guess I have a 350i then. I was wanting to confirm this as me Julie is pressuring me to sell it. I would not want to sell it as something it is not. I will probably remove the badges, and sell as a 350i with some 390SE upgraded bits.

Cheers folks for the replies.