Gearbox change!
Gearbox change!
Author
Discussion

Mr Tank

Original Poster:

5,799 posts

305 months

Tuesday 19th June 2012
quotequote all
Hi

I have the opportunity to get a 2+2 but it needs a Gearbox. I know you can't easily do a gerabox change on a V8 without taking the engine out. But what about a V6, can that be done with out removing the engine?

Andy

TVRleigh_BBWR

6,553 posts

243 months

Tuesday 19th June 2012
quotequote all
Mr Tank said:
Hi

I have the opportunity to get a 2+2 but it needs a Gearbox. I know you can't easily do a gerabox change on a V8 without taking the engine out. But what about a V6, can that be done with out removing the engine?

Andy
What the big fuss about having to take the engine and gearbox out, I've done an engine and Gearbox swap in a day. you welcome to borrow my engine crane

Mr Tank

Original Poster:

5,799 posts

305 months

Tuesday 19th June 2012
quotequote all
Leigh

Yes a engine out is not a problem, normaly I would do that but if a gearbox swap is quicker then we would do that.
Mainly the aim is to get the car back on the road quickly. The car would be in line for a full refub at a later date, thus a quick turn around now is what we need to do!

Andy

hallsie

2,185 posts

250 months

Tuesday 19th June 2012
quotequote all
why dont you just buy a 2+2 thats got a good gearbox, engine, interior, exterior and chassis?????

winkphone

Stu

Mr Tank

Original Poster:

5,799 posts

305 months

Tuesday 19th June 2012
quotequote all
Stu

Good try!

Your car is saved and on the road!
This one needs saving!
That's why I am interested, plus it was once owned by a very good friend and I want to save it as when he owned it it was a good car and will be again if I get hold of it!

Andy

mrzigazaga

18,816 posts

195 months

Tuesday 19th June 2012
quotequote all
Hi Andy,The gearbox can be removed without taking the engine out..Although the prop..Exhausts..Speedo..Gear lever and clutch cables will need to be taken off as well..There is enough room to slide it back a little once its undone and drop it down..Hope this helps..Ziga

Mr Tank

Original Poster:

5,799 posts

305 months

Tuesday 19th June 2012
quotequote all
Mark

Have you done it you self!

Sorry I know what some books say, I want to know from sombody who has done it not read in a book!

Andy

taz turbo

685 posts

280 months

Tuesday 19th June 2012
quotequote all
Andy,

From experience on the earlier, narrow (Pre RV8) chassis, yes the box can be changed without disturbing the engine, it's a bit of a 'faf', as you have to split the bell from the box, but far quicker than engine out.

Prop off, gear lever off, clutch cable, speedometer drive and reverse switch connections off (on my car exhaust off).

Now, depending if it's a four speed or five speed...

If its a four speed, bell housing and box back, box to bell bolts out there external, box back a good distance then drop the bell down and out, failing hazy memory tells me you can just get the box out without taking the flywheel/clutch off (but thats only 12 bolts total), reassembly is the reverse.

If its a five speed the bell to box bolts are inside the bell housing (M12 x 1.75, 19mm hex head), gearbox back as far as possible, the you can 'just' get a fat arm in there to remove the bolts, then its the same as above.

Either case (done both, last one Sunday just gone, but then I had the clutch, flywheel and sump off for an annoying oil leak from the back of the sump gasket) It's not a difficult or time consuming job, the five speed is a little more time consuming due to the bell to box bolts being inside the bell, but for box only I would say 4 - 5 hours working on axle stands.

If I can help any further, just ask.

Chris.

Tasmin200

1,387 posts

217 months

Tuesday 19th June 2012
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That's good information Chris. It looked possible when scrabbling around underneath but it's good to have it confirmed. My car is currently a 4 speeder but I've got a 2.8i 5 speeder to go in it, do you have any tips for that job?

Mr Tank

Original Poster:

5,799 posts

305 months

Tuesday 19th June 2012
quotequote all
Chris

Thanks for the info, will pass it onto Simon who may have the job if I buy the car!

Andy

mrzigazaga

18,816 posts

195 months

Tuesday 19th June 2012
quotequote all
Mr Tank said:
Mark

Have you done it you self!

Sorry I know what some books say, I want to know from sombody who has done it not read in a book!
Hi Andy..No i havent done it myself and i didnt consult a book but when i was contemplating having a ring gear changed and a clutch fitted me and the guy from the ford garage had a really good look..He said it wasnt that different from a capri..He has done loads in 30 years..Just trying to help...Ziga

MJG280

723 posts

289 months

Tuesday 19th June 2012
quotequote all
Tasmin200 said:
That's good information Chris. It looked possible when scrabbling around underneath but it's good to have it confirmed. My car is currently a 4 speeder but I've got a 2.8i 5 speeder to go in it, do you have any tips for that job?
If your car is a 4 cylinder then a V6 5 speed wont fit as the input shaft is longer on the V6.

The speedo output locking nut? on the V6 gearbox is different from the V6 4 speed. It can be cable tied in place though.

taz turbo

685 posts

280 months

Tuesday 19th June 2012
quotequote all
MJG280 said:
Tasmin200 said:
That's good information Chris. It looked possible when scrabbling around underneath but it's good to have it confirmed. My car is currently a 4 speeder but I've got a 2.8i 5 speeder to go in it, do you have any tips for that job?
If your car is a 4 cylinder then a V6 5 speed wont fit as the input shaft is longer on the V6.

The speedo output locking nut? on the V6 gearbox is different from the V6 4 speed. It can be cable tied in place though.
As MJG said the input shaft is longer on the V6 v Pinto and he is correct about the speedometer cable drive is different on the 5 speed box, but as well as this its in quite a different position (further back on the 5 speed) so you 4 speed speedometer cable will likely be to short (speedy cables are your friend on this one).

The spigot bearing in the end of the crankshaft will likely require changing (1/2" for the 4 speed and 15mm for the 5 speed).

The propshaft can be retained but it won't enter into the 5 speed box quite as far (appx 10mm).

The speedometer will read ~20% low and RPM in top gear at comparable speeds will drop by ~20% with the 5 speed box and Std 3.07 ratio 4 speed diff. But should you choose to fit a 3.54 diff as per the 5 speed cars all will be restored.

You will have to do a cut and shut on the gearlever to ensure it enters the car in the correct position IIRC its about 50mm, I would recommend to fit a quickshift kit there cheap as chips and do reduce the stroke nicely.

The original clutch can be reused.

Std. clutch cable (if you have a cable clutch) can be reused.

The 5 speed box is not as strong as the 4 speed and does not take kindly to incorrect lube type, from memory it uses a 75/90 semi synthetic.


All the above is for 2.8 4 speed to 2.8 5 speed, but I think it will be very similar if not the same for the Pinto engine (assumption, the Mother of a F' ups!).

Chris.

Mr Tank

Original Poster:

5,799 posts

305 months

Tuesday 19th June 2012
quotequote all
mrzigazaga said:
Hi Andy..No i havent done it myself and i didnt consult a book but when i was contemplating having a ring gear changed and a clutch fitted me and the guy from the ford garage had a really good look..He said it wasnt that different from a capri..He has done loads in 30 years..Just trying to help...Ziga

I know you were Mark. I also know you had not done they job your self, and I needed a hands on person who had!

Andy

mrzigazaga

18,816 posts

195 months

Tuesday 19th June 2012
quotequote all
Thats understandable...No worries..

carob

3,585 posts

241 months

Tuesday 19th June 2012
quotequote all
I've never flown to the moon but i know it can be done!

Might be worth speaking to some of the race guys that may run 280's in a racer???? they tend to know a trick or too.

Good luck Andy if anyone can save a rare one you can.

Rob

york33

995 posts

292 months

Tuesday 19th June 2012
quotequote all
So what's this +2 like then? When you say it needs a gearbox, is it absent, or knackered? Just curious, I like +2s, not that I'm biased at all smile

Mr Tank

Original Poster:

5,799 posts

305 months

Wednesday 20th June 2012
quotequote all
Hi

The car was owned by Andy (Mr Sheen) and he got it into a reasnoable condition, i.e New Outrigers, re-trim etc in 2008

Here a poor pic in the back ground is the car!



He then Sold it as you do at times!

The car was then seen by me in early last year with four flat tyres, a smashed front bumper, flat paint work and had a f_ _ _ed gearbox (Only has 2 & 4th gears)
The woman who purchased it, had an accident plus did the gearbox and it has been left outside for two to three years!
She has now contacted him/us wanting to sell it!
I am interested but also have a lot of other cars inline so I will see!

Also Rose will kill me if I get another wreck, but what will I do with my time once I am walking again? scratchchin

Andy



Edited by Mr Tank on Wednesday 20th June 01:22

RCK974X

2,521 posts

179 months

Wednesday 20th June 2012
quotequote all
My experience of interchangeing 4 and 5 speeders, 4 and 6 cyl in kit cars (but not actually in a wedge)

The 5 speed boxes are all essentially the same, BUT
1. They have a 4 cyl and a 6 cyl version of the bellhousing and input shaft.
2. There are 2 common gearsets 2.0/2.3, and 2.8

If you get a 4 cyl box, it can be rebuilt as a 6 cyl if you use 6 cyl 5 speed or early 2.3 Cortina 4 speed bellhousing and a 2.3 Sierra input shaft. YES - I've actually done this.

The 5 speeder is a little longer than the 4 speeder, and the gearstick sits in a slightly different place (about 1 inch further back ?). The 5 speeder mounts are further back. A 5 speed will probably physically fit in, but not sure if it will fit on the Wedge 4 speed mounts, and the propshaft will probably need shortening by about 2 inches.

RCK974X

2,521 posts

179 months

Wednesday 20th June 2012
quotequote all
various sets of speedo drive gears exist to calibrate the gearbox to right diff (turns per mile). Most Ford speedos (and 2.8i Wedges) are calibrated to 1000 turns per mile as far as I know.

I'm pretty sure the Capri 2.8i works for the 3.07 diff.

Have more info if you want !!