Stalling wedge
Discussion
Hi and welcome...It might not have anything to do with the clutch..It could be a number of things really..Has it been sitting for a long time?...Has the fuel filter been changed and checked for the condition of the fuel?..I found that the hot start issues were down to the fuel metering head and the fuel accumulator leaking...I would start by changing the fuel filter to see if the fuel is gloopy like syrup and contains rust!..If the car has sat for a while the fuel metering head can become rusty and the thin plate in-between the two halves can fail which will make the fuel pressure drop..The accumulator can be tested, It is situated on the passenger underside about the middle of the car and has an in and an out and a breather on the back of it..One feed is from the fuel pump and then the out is going to the metering head..(The hexaganol part on the passenger side with the thin plastic pipes coming out of it)..The pipe from the accumulator running up toward the front of the car can be clamped and if fuel comes out of the back of it then it is failing,To test the fuel there is a green plug going onto the metering head, Just pull that off for now and once the pipe is clamped then just turn on the ignition to the first position..Not cranking..for a few seconds...Check for leaky fuel from the back of the accumulator...If it is it can be by-passed.let us know how you get on...Cheers..Ziga
Thanks Ziga. I'll try that at the weekend. I think the car had sat a while before i got it, months i think. i have only used it at weekends, done about 30 miles in it since i got it. The tank was empty when i got it as well, so yeah there probably is a load of rubbish in the fuel lines and filter! But why would it only cut out when hot, and not do it when cold? It doesn't happen when accelerator is pushed, only when i slow down at lights etc, and stop the revs, it just dies.
Hi Mate..Well it could be lack of fuel pressure..All the time you are pushing the throttle you are pushing fuel through..It can be a bit of a nightmare diagnosing the fault on these engines, It could be vapour lock when the engine is getting hot or it could be something simple like the warm up regulator not closing/opening or might just need a tweek..What is the tick over on at idle..If all fails where abouts are you..Im in south east london..Cheers..Ziga
I do a lot of work on my wedge but when it comes to tuning I always leave it to the experts with the right equipment and know how. Its money you will pay just the once and the experts will pin point the problem and tune it to perfection. It will be money well spent as the car will be more economic on fuel when properly tuned on the diagnostics. So my advice is this. Find a garage in your area that specialises on the 2.8 engine with the diagnostics equipment or even rolling road and let them do the job.
Tony. TCB.
Tony. TCB.
Check for air leaks. I had a similar problem on my 280. Turned out to be a split in the air pipe leading up to the engine from the air cleaner assy. When cold the enriched air/fuel mixture (when choke operating) is enough to overcome the air leaking into the system - once hot the choke turns off and the air leak makes the mixture to weak for the engine to run properly. These pipes are prone to splitting once they get old and brittle. Take it off (2 jubilees) and give it a good once over bending it to open up any splits Easy fix with £10 worth of aftermarket silicone hose.
marcus1875 said:
Hi Ziga, thanks for the offer, I'm up in Scotland, bit far to come? I'll try what you suggest, but maybe Lean Machine is right, it might be wiser to get it properly tuned. Any recommendations for a tuner in the Edinburgh area anyone?
I wouldnt waste money on a tune up yet until you have established what is causing it to cut out...It could also be a wire that is split and is expanding with heat and then contracting when cold..Mine sat for 11 years and in which time had a rusty fuel tank that contaminated the whole system. It got into the metering head and injectors..If the car has sat around for even a short period without being used the fuel metering unit can suffer from gummy petrol or rust building up between the two halves, The thin metal gasket that separates the top from the bottom is vunerable to corrosion..I dont think it will be an air leak as that would surely affect it all the time..The injection system work on a constant fuel supply and if there is a leak or intermittent pulsing then you will get vapour lock when hot..I had problems with the metering head and the fuel accumulator which caused hot start issues..There is a fuel return line from the metering head that goes back to the tank and this can be clamped to see if the hot start issues stops...If it does then it is almost certain the accumulator is leaking fuel from the breather at the back of the unit or the metering head is faulty..Change the fuel filter anyway to check the condition of the fuel...Try to get yourself some soft copper washers for when you re-fit the banjo fitting on the filter,Also dont hold a spanner on to the alloy nut on the filter as it will split and leak fuel..Tighten the 17mm banjo on the inlet end and hold the filter firmly or in its bracket...Then use a 19mm on the alloy nut on the filter and position it at around 70 degrees and then position the 17mm spanner at 90 degrees then gently squeeze together with one hand similar to a pair of grips..Remove the green plug from the metering head which is located left bottom of the big air intake pipe that comes off the rubber cap..(The only one on it) and turn on the ignition to the first position and check for leaks..I will dig through my pics to see if there is some helpful ones..Good luck..Cheers...ZigaAn easy check to make is to remove and reconnect the various plugs on the various injection parts, and possibly add some WD40 on them.
I had a problem where the warm up regulator (the unit right on the front of the engine block with two pipes) had a dodgy connection. This makes the mixture too rich, as it relies on both engine block temp AND electrical heating. Engine would stall when warm.
It could also be a dodgy or loose switch on the main metering unit (it 's designed to cut off the fuel pump if the engine stops, but it's simply a contact which sits on the unit which the fuel flap touches). It could also be a dodgy fuel relay. - Note, Later 2.8 had a purple 'long' relay instead, which is actually an electronic timer which needs ignition pulses fed to it. These can fail, or wiring could be dodgy.
Things to check therefore -
Try the electrical connectors first.
Try 'wogglng' the relays in their sockets
Is mixture rich ?(you can typically smell it - if your eyes water, it's rich)
Does the pump stop when engine drops to idle (get someone else to listen at rear wheel).
Are all the air hose connections tight from fuel metering unit (an air leak can cause issues)
UM... I'm sure there's more....but this covers the most basic checks
(oops - air hose covered already...check it twice then...)
I had a problem where the warm up regulator (the unit right on the front of the engine block with two pipes) had a dodgy connection. This makes the mixture too rich, as it relies on both engine block temp AND electrical heating. Engine would stall when warm.
It could also be a dodgy or loose switch on the main metering unit (it 's designed to cut off the fuel pump if the engine stops, but it's simply a contact which sits on the unit which the fuel flap touches). It could also be a dodgy fuel relay. - Note, Later 2.8 had a purple 'long' relay instead, which is actually an electronic timer which needs ignition pulses fed to it. These can fail, or wiring could be dodgy.
Things to check therefore -
Try the electrical connectors first.
Try 'wogglng' the relays in their sockets
Is mixture rich ?(you can typically smell it - if your eyes water, it's rich)
Does the pump stop when engine drops to idle (get someone else to listen at rear wheel).
Are all the air hose connections tight from fuel metering unit (an air leak can cause issues)
UM... I'm sure there's more....but this covers the most basic checks
(oops - air hose covered already...check it twice then...)
Rockettvr said:
Agree with Zig on the tune up front - chances are all you'll get from them is- " we couldn't tune it - you've got a fuelling problem" you're none the wiser just a bit lighter in the wallet. Sort the problem , get it running ok, then get it properly tuned to get it bang on 
If I call them for a diagnostic tune and they can't tune it, they don't get paid. Their job is to diagnose, rectify and tune, not tell me I have a fuelling problem. I could have told them that before they got here and it would have been free. When I go to a restaurant I only pay for the food I have eaten, I don't pay for the food the chef has a problem cooking. I don't mind spending the money, but I like the job done properly.Tony. TCB.
Good photos from Zig !!
Been thinking, you can remove the green plug (the last photo) whilst engine is running, and it should have no effect. Worth doing to see if stall goes away (in which case it's a dodgy switch).
Also you can remove the plug from the cold start injector when engine is running (It's should only be live at cranking). These can also leak by the way, especially if you've got crap or gum in the fuel lines.
Check ALL the various pipes for leaks, there's a few to go at - don't forget the brake servo pipe too, they can all crack and may be enough to cause a stall at idle...
So there's quite a bit of advice so far from everyone (Good !!)
I guess the best way is to write a list of checks, simplest first, and go through them in order to try to find the problem. A bit of time cost nothing before going to the garage!
Most of the issues on my wedge have been electrical, (a couple of wheel bearings and UJs too) but Zig has had a different set of problems....
Been thinking, you can remove the green plug (the last photo) whilst engine is running, and it should have no effect. Worth doing to see if stall goes away (in which case it's a dodgy switch).
Also you can remove the plug from the cold start injector when engine is running (It's should only be live at cranking). These can also leak by the way, especially if you've got crap or gum in the fuel lines.
Check ALL the various pipes for leaks, there's a few to go at - don't forget the brake servo pipe too, they can all crack and may be enough to cause a stall at idle...
So there's quite a bit of advice so far from everyone (Good !!)
I guess the best way is to write a list of checks, simplest first, and go through them in order to try to find the problem. A bit of time cost nothing before going to the garage!
Most of the issues on my wedge have been electrical, (a couple of wheel bearings and UJs too) but Zig has had a different set of problems....
The injected V6 was always prone to bizarre running issues; I used to drive a Granada hearse (for work, obviously) and when hot it was prone to hunting, which with an auto gearbox used to make it difficult to drive at walking pace without running over the guy with a top hat and morning coat a couple of feet in front of the bumper.
Random stalling was another game it would play (my Tasmin did that too) and despite several visits to Ford it was never resolved. I sorted the Tasmin: I found a full fuel system for the right money off a crashed car that seemed to have no problems.
Every part of that injection has to be right for it to run correctly, that's the long and short of it. You can chase your tail for ages over a daft air leak or (as Zig says) trouble with the fuel meter. Whatever you do, don't take the meter apart as you will never stop it leaking on reassembly.
Random stalling was another game it would play (my Tasmin did that too) and despite several visits to Ford it was never resolved. I sorted the Tasmin: I found a full fuel system for the right money off a crashed car that seemed to have no problems.
Every part of that injection has to be right for it to run correctly, that's the long and short of it. You can chase your tail for ages over a daft air leak or (as Zig says) trouble with the fuel meter. Whatever you do, don't take the meter apart as you will never stop it leaking on reassembly.
Wedg1e said:
Whatever you do, don't take the meter apart as you will never stop it leaking on reassembly.
Definately!!..It is worth getting refurbed as you will be hard pushed to find a good second hand one now and to buy a new one...(If you can find them)...will cost an arm and a leg..I can forward you details of a guy who refurbs these and the WUR...He always has one in stock so that you are not waiting for yours to be returned..Just send yours to him when you have fitted the refurbed unit..He also sells the fuel pumps and accumulators and is very knowledged in these systems..You can also pick his brains as he is very helpful..Email me for the details if you need them..I still think you will be wasting money by trying to tune a troublesome engine, If anything ask the garage to fit a new fuel filter but make sure its the correct type and ask them to tip the fuel that was in the old one into a jar so that you can see it for yourself..Also take some pics of your engine from O/S & N/S if possible and pop them up on here..Cheers...ZigaWedg1e said:
The injected V6 was always prone to bizarre running issues; <snip>
Funny that, I've also driven quite a few Granadas, manual and auto, my Wedge, and one XR4i, and generally have been able to sort them all out by going through the checks methodically - probably I've been lucky !! 1. Twice had the problem with dodgy connection to warm up regulator (different cars), and fixed with clean (+WD40) of the connectors. Symptoms - stall when warm, rough running when warm.
2. Once had problem with fuel relay having burned contacts. intermittent no starts, cutting out (granny)
3. Once had issue with gummed up fuel filter (Ok except at full throttle - went 'flat') (Wedge)
4. Replaced injectors on one because it stalled when idling and hot - spray pattern from 3 injectors was TERRIBLE - 6 new injectors solved problem. (high mileage granny)
5. replaced warm up regulator on this car too, after injectors, (couldn't get right mixture both cold and hot) ran much. much better after that.
XR4i never did give any trouble injection wise ....
[quote=Lean Machine]
If I call them for a diagnostic tune and they can't tune it, they don't get paid. Their job is to diagnose, rectify and tune,
Tony. TCB.
Tony you're a hard man- you really do TCB.
Think of you call in someone you need to talk to them first. Some will provide a full service as Tony outlined but some of the "Cryptontune" people are not willing or able to do the spannering all they want to do is turn up connect their kit fiddle with a few bits then depart - they are tuners not mechanics. If you call one of these out without explaining the situation they won't be able to do the tuning but will still invoice you for their time and trouble. As I said talk to them first
Also you are going to be paying for their time (not cheap) to fault find , so I would be more inclined to follow the advice offered by others in this thread- make a list of faults starting with the simplest/ easiest then work your way through them until either the fault is fixed or you reach the limit or your competence/ or you can't be arsed at which point get someone in. Saves a few pennies as you've done all the basic stuff and you might just sort it on your own - cue warm fuzzy feeling of satisfaction
Good luck
If I call them for a diagnostic tune and they can't tune it, they don't get paid. Their job is to diagnose, rectify and tune,
Tony. TCB.
Tony you're a hard man- you really do TCB.
Think of you call in someone you need to talk to them first. Some will provide a full service as Tony outlined but some of the "Cryptontune" people are not willing or able to do the spannering all they want to do is turn up connect their kit fiddle with a few bits then depart - they are tuners not mechanics. If you call one of these out without explaining the situation they won't be able to do the tuning but will still invoice you for their time and trouble. As I said talk to them first
Also you are going to be paying for their time (not cheap) to fault find , so I would be more inclined to follow the advice offered by others in this thread- make a list of faults starting with the simplest/ easiest then work your way through them until either the fault is fixed or you reach the limit or your competence/ or you can't be arsed at which point get someone in. Saves a few pennies as you've done all the basic stuff and you might just sort it on your own - cue warm fuzzy feeling of satisfaction
Good luck
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