Cracks in Windshield Pillars
Discussion
I am redoing the upholstery on my 280i. First attempt was not good because the 25 year old foam and glue were lumpy. I removed it around the windshield down to the fibreglass and found both pillars have longitudinal cracks. Is this common? They are probably shear cracks from the windshield flexing, but I cannot get any movement in them. My plan is to fill them with epoxy and cover them up!
Sorry I couldn't turn the picture.
Wilf.
Sorry I couldn't turn the picture.
Wilf.
Hi mate...Not sure if they are common as i have yet to do mine..Is the windscreen out as apparently thats the best way to re-trim the pillars..You could use a pin to see how deep the splits are..Could of been the cause of roof on and off over the years..A filler would be ok as long as you can get it into the depth of the crack...
http://www.amazon.co.uk/U-Pol-250ml-P40-Bridging-C...
Or you could try some fibreglass putty..
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=f...
http://www.amazon.co.uk/U-Pol-250ml-P40-Bridging-C...
Or you could try some fibreglass putty..
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=f...
Thanks, Mark,
No the glass is still in, and I am trying to remove the last bits of old upholstery stuck near the glass. I spoke to a car window guy, trying to get a price for removing, storing and replacing it; he said the risk of breaking it was too great - and the cost of a new glass is over $1000 here.
Thanks for the suggestions, but since I spend more time working on my boat, I have a choice of several materials to fill the cracks. They will not add much (if any) strength. The depth varies, mostly under 4 mm.
Wilf.
No the glass is still in, and I am trying to remove the last bits of old upholstery stuck near the glass. I spoke to a car window guy, trying to get a price for removing, storing and replacing it; he said the risk of breaking it was too great - and the cost of a new glass is over $1000 here.
Thanks for the suggestions, but since I spend more time working on my boat, I have a choice of several materials to fill the cracks. They will not add much (if any) strength. The depth varies, mostly under 4 mm.
Wilf.
Hi Wilf..Maybe removing the screen is not such a good idea then...I should imagine the old bits of foam have the remnants of the glue there as well which can be a right pain to remove..Maybe some sort of alcohol or acetone to help weaken the glue..Repairing the splits should be easy for you then..Let us know how you get on..Cheers...Ziga
Given the age of most of the wedges now, gelcoat cracks are probably a fact of life I reckon, anywhere where there is any vibration or stress. If the cracks are sahllow then it doesn't mean there's anything seriously wrong, just fill them.
My 280 (1982) has [small] cracks in various corners, around mountings etc. Not worried about them at all.
My 280 (1982) has [small] cracks in various corners, around mountings etc. Not worried about them at all.
The cracks are mostly running the length of the pillars, not just in one line, but in sections up to six inches long. Is it true that there is steel reinforcement inside the fiberglass windshield surround? If so the steel could have rusted and swelled to cause the cracks.
In other places I have the usual minor stress cracks, but what I am talking about are much bigger.
This afternoon I filled them with a slow curing epoxy, and tomorrow I will sand them smooth. I also put some epoxy in the slots at the top for the hardtop. Now I notice that the matching slots in the Targa (roll bar) will need a lot of filling; although I don't remember leaks there, it is a easy way for rainwater to enter.
Wilf.
In other places I have the usual minor stress cracks, but what I am talking about are much bigger.
This afternoon I filled them with a slow curing epoxy, and tomorrow I will sand them smooth. I also put some epoxy in the slots at the top for the hardtop. Now I notice that the matching slots in the Targa (roll bar) will need a lot of filling; although I don't remember leaks there, it is a easy way for rainwater to enter.
Wilf.
My understanding is that there IS a steel frame bonded in. I can't see a GRP frame being anything like that rigid without it !!
long cracks I guess could be moisture/swelling. If frame is still rigid it's probably OK ?
My frame moves slightly when roof panel locked in, but doesn't move in the wind, even at speeds above legal limit...
long cracks I guess could be moisture/swelling. If frame is still rigid it's probably OK ?
My frame moves slightly when roof panel locked in, but doesn't move in the wind, even at speeds above legal limit...
Andy,
I just put a powerful magnet to the windshield frame; no evidence of anything ferrous. I doubt if Blackpool would have used anything other than mild steel.
In fact there is little reason for them to reinforce the frame more than they achieved with fibreglass. The main load to overcome is bending and that is not done by reinforcing down the middle (as a tube resists bending almost as well as a solid bar) Adding steel would help with compression or tension, but with the angle of the windshield that is less important.
So I am still baffled about the cause of the cracks; I just hope there wasn't an old accident. No matter what, I have filled the cracks and am moving on.
Wilf.
I just put a powerful magnet to the windshield frame; no evidence of anything ferrous. I doubt if Blackpool would have used anything other than mild steel.
In fact there is little reason for them to reinforce the frame more than they achieved with fibreglass. The main load to overcome is bending and that is not done by reinforcing down the middle (as a tube resists bending almost as well as a solid bar) Adding steel would help with compression or tension, but with the angle of the windshield that is less important.
So I am still baffled about the cause of the cracks; I just hope there wasn't an old accident. No matter what, I have filled the cracks and am moving on.
Wilf.
pasogrande said:
The cracks are mostly running the length of the pillars, not just in one line, but in sections up to six inches long. Is it true that there is steel reinforcement inside the fiberglass windshield surround? If so the steel could have rusted and swelled to cause the cracks.
That would be my line of thought. However given the amount of flex the windscreen frame often has, you have to wonder if there is a steel hoop and if so, what's supporting the bottom of it?I guess you could use a stud/metal detector or similar to see if there is any reinforcement in there.
Marcus,
I am not an expert, just learning as I go.
I had all the major pieces redone by a couple that does canvas and upholstery for boats. However they could not make the little pieces from the scraps I gave them. In other words I am doing everything that doesn't need stitching. I chose a camel colour, similar to some Ferraris; the car is red and came with a disgusting magnolia colour leather. The full width fascia piece and the surround for the switches/radio/heater controls are in black as they said they couldn't follow the shape without wrinkles. I have a gap between that fascia and the glass (where the four vents are; this was ugly so I trimmed that in black.
The foam I am using is 1/2" thick, medium density, which I bought from JoAnne's Fabrics, a local shop catering to people (mostly of the fair sex) who like to do craftwork. The fabric I am using came from Keyston, a company that has been specializing in fabric for the boat and car upholsterers for more than 100 years. I don't know what sources you have in Britain.
The material from Keyston is an exact match for the leather used by the people that did the seats, panels, etc. Keyston also has foams of many densities, seats are firmer than backs.
The glue I am using is Weldwood Gel, a contact cement by the DAP company. If used before it is dry, the fabric can be adjusted.
I am doing the work without removing the windshield glass. It is much better to take it out, but due to the risk of breaking it, and the difficulty in finding a replacement I am doing it the lazy way.
Hope this helps.
Wilf.
I am not an expert, just learning as I go.
I had all the major pieces redone by a couple that does canvas and upholstery for boats. However they could not make the little pieces from the scraps I gave them. In other words I am doing everything that doesn't need stitching. I chose a camel colour, similar to some Ferraris; the car is red and came with a disgusting magnolia colour leather. The full width fascia piece and the surround for the switches/radio/heater controls are in black as they said they couldn't follow the shape without wrinkles. I have a gap between that fascia and the glass (where the four vents are; this was ugly so I trimmed that in black.
The foam I am using is 1/2" thick, medium density, which I bought from JoAnne's Fabrics, a local shop catering to people (mostly of the fair sex) who like to do craftwork. The fabric I am using came from Keyston, a company that has been specializing in fabric for the boat and car upholsterers for more than 100 years. I don't know what sources you have in Britain.
The material from Keyston is an exact match for the leather used by the people that did the seats, panels, etc. Keyston also has foams of many densities, seats are firmer than backs.
The glue I am using is Weldwood Gel, a contact cement by the DAP company. If used before it is dry, the fabric can be adjusted.
I am doing the work without removing the windshield glass. It is much better to take it out, but due to the risk of breaking it, and the difficulty in finding a replacement I am doing it the lazy way.
Hope this helps.
Wilf.
Pretty sure when I disposed of front part of a wedge I could not believe how thick the windcreen pillar was.
Think I even kept a piece somewhere, and seem to remember some sort of metal rod running through the pillar, but nothing across the top. Still not sure if it would survive an upside down landing though. But then I reckon my Audi Cab would probably fall apart as well
Think I even kept a piece somewhere, and seem to remember some sort of metal rod running through the pillar, but nothing across the top. Still not sure if it would survive an upside down landing though. But then I reckon my Audi Cab would probably fall apart as well
AndyP, Paul & Adam,
I am interested to hear if you have steel in your windshield frames. The more I think about it, the less likely it is. But I am often wrong.
Steel is good for reinforcing concrete. If you want the concrete to resist bending you put it near the edges, especially the edge which will stretch when bent. Putting it in the middle does nothing, as the concrete there neither stretches nor compresses. If you want it to resist tension, compression or shear you put it evenly. The steel must bond to the concrete.
The TVR is made of layers of hand laid glass roving mesh soaked in resin. This is approximately three times as strong as the fibreglass on a Corvette which is sprayed through a chopper gun. (Thanks Google)
I too would not trust this to hold up in an overturn. I also doubt if the steel "roll bar" in the Targa would hold up.
Wilf.
I am interested to hear if you have steel in your windshield frames. The more I think about it, the less likely it is. But I am often wrong.
Steel is good for reinforcing concrete. If you want the concrete to resist bending you put it near the edges, especially the edge which will stretch when bent. Putting it in the middle does nothing, as the concrete there neither stretches nor compresses. If you want it to resist tension, compression or shear you put it evenly. The steel must bond to the concrete.
The TVR is made of layers of hand laid glass roving mesh soaked in resin. This is approximately three times as strong as the fibreglass on a Corvette which is sprayed through a chopper gun. (Thanks Google)
I too would not trust this to hold up in an overturn. I also doubt if the steel "roll bar" in the Targa would hold up.
Wilf.
Wilf,
Tried out a neodymium (spelling?) super strong magnet,and it WILL STICK, but fairly weak response.
No response on horizontal top frame, but the magnet will stick to the sides by itself.
Magnet came from from an old home computer disc drive, and is VERY strong.
This type of magnet is powerful enough to attract even some stainless steels with high iron content
(but not A2/314 stainless bolts though).
So there IS something metallic in the sides of mine, but not the top. Could be it's right in the centre of the GRP for the weak signal, or it could be a stainless mix ?? Checked in several places on both sides, so it's not a bolt or bracket etc....and runs the lenght of the sides.
(my wedge is 1982 drop head 2.8 4 speeder so a series 1 (?)
NB. I think the 'woven mat', which looks almost like course cotton cloth, is the strongest of all, and apparently when laid up right is also something like 3-5 times stronger than standard hand laid chopped mat.... I use this for reinforcement over cracks in corners etc, and damaged edges....relatively expensive but worth it.
Tried out a neodymium (spelling?) super strong magnet,and it WILL STICK, but fairly weak response.
No response on horizontal top frame, but the magnet will stick to the sides by itself.
Magnet came from from an old home computer disc drive, and is VERY strong.
This type of magnet is powerful enough to attract even some stainless steels with high iron content
(but not A2/314 stainless bolts though).
So there IS something metallic in the sides of mine, but not the top. Could be it's right in the centre of the GRP for the weak signal, or it could be a stainless mix ?? Checked in several places on both sides, so it's not a bolt or bracket etc....and runs the lenght of the sides.
(my wedge is 1982 drop head 2.8 4 speeder so a series 1 (?)
NB. I think the 'woven mat', which looks almost like course cotton cloth, is the strongest of all, and apparently when laid up right is also something like 3-5 times stronger than standard hand laid chopped mat.... I use this for reinforcement over cracks in corners etc, and damaged edges....relatively expensive but worth it.
Edited by RCK974X on Sunday 28th October 04:52
AndyP,
I also tried an even stronger magnet, and this time I felt some attraction on the outside edge, i.e. the painted part facing forward. This wo0uld be the logical side to reinforce, but still not enough iron to give much extra strength. Also, mine seemed to have more steel higher than at the bottom, although the mirror workings were interfering.
So, again I'm wrong. I would like to see a picture of what was used.
Thanks for clarifying.
Wilf.
btw I was downtown Auckland many years ago and saw a TVR at a garage near my son's office on Cook Street - maybe yours?
I also tried an even stronger magnet, and this time I felt some attraction on the outside edge, i.e. the painted part facing forward. This wo0uld be the logical side to reinforce, but still not enough iron to give much extra strength. Also, mine seemed to have more steel higher than at the bottom, although the mirror workings were interfering.
So, again I'm wrong. I would like to see a picture of what was used.
Thanks for clarifying.
Wilf.
btw I was downtown Auckland many years ago and saw a TVR at a garage near my son's office on Cook Street - maybe yours?
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