V8 ECU Attributed engine problems.

[mrzigazaga]

Hi Peeps..Just wondered as there seems to be post's arising frequently regarding ECU related problems with dead or temperamental engines..I have had experience of quite a few issues with delilah but the V8 seems to have a whole new set which stems from a different source..Im trying to keep up with a lot of it but not owning one doesnt help...That might change before the weekend!..So i was wondering if there is a list we could put together of all the symptoms and possible causes related to failing ECU's so it can be a rough guide to those who enter the darker side of the dark side..I do have quite a bit of info regarding ECU's from mark adams and obviously there are sites and books...But im thinking more of a simplified symptoms and causes sticky....No not toffee pudding..what are you like.......More of a quick reference guide...Bit like my auto-shop list...It just say's..."CAKE".......Anyway just thought it might be an idea...Cheers...Ziga

[Wedg1e]

Trouble is, a lot of the injection faults can be attributed to defects elsewhere in the system than the ECU; there aren't specific symptoms that ONLY point to the ECU. Even Danny's apparent non-firing injectors could be down to a bad earth, or a missing 12v supply somewhere. It's not a difficult system to understand and it's not as though spares for it are hard to find, look how many bits pop up on Ebay for example.
You-know-who will be along any second with multitudinous links to diagnostics routines but what most people want/need are things they can perform as kerbside checks, like the throttle-jabbing routing to see if all 8 fire at once (the ECU is simulating the accelerator pump of a carb when it does that).
Once you can quickly eliminate certain things, it gets easier to point the finger/screwdriver/multimeter.

[mrzigazaga]

Wedg1e said:

but what most people want/need are things they can perform as kerbside checks, like the throttle-jabbing routing to see if all 8 fire at once (the ECU is simulating the accelerator pump of a carb when it does that).
Once you can quickly eliminate certain things, it gets easier to point the finger/screwdriver/multimeter.

Exactly..Thats what i was pointing at..Although it wasnt with any particular item...I may of had a pen in my hand at the time...Like you say it is a matter of learning along the way as i have done with the V6...A bit of guidance is always a blessing..Too much is brain pain... = Maximum capacity overload......Maybe something like a check list...The TVR roadside quick checklist...

[RCK974X]

I've said before, If I had a V8, I would almost certainly go for a Megasquirt or Emerald etc, or even a modified (Ford) EEC-IV system, as the fully digital systems can do self diagnosis to make problems far easier to find. With a semi analogue system like the original Rover, a dodgy earth can cause a whole range of wierd symptoms, as all the sensor voltages can 'float'. So even if everything ran fine I would still be planning to go that way.

This is before we get to the possible issues with the fact the boxes themselves are now very, very old in technology terms (the well used 'stone age' comes to mind) and can have problems with their construction...

The 'K' system on 2.8 engines, even though all mechanical, is actually very simple in its operation, and not all that many things to check...

[Ford EEC-IV - may sound like weird choice, but the most common versions made are for a US V8 engines, and its code is well 'cracked' for recalibration purposes.]

Edited by RCK974X on Monday 8th April 22:27

[mrzigazaga]

Mmmm..Maybe the MS or emerald route is a good option..I know some have converted to carbs as another...Im being honest here as i have been put off from V8's by loads of ECU related issues or not as the case may now be....I like simple because its un-complicated..But i also like a mind phuck..So as i dont take mind bending drugs anymore i look in other places for the same effect...So i might be getting an EFI-ing gurgling..Burbling..8 into 1 exhaust with a 5" exit tailpipe..Potentially troublesome..Snarling...Burping V8..Which will probably end up red like the lipstick of my dog..I mean my girlfriend and more noisy than a herd of cows with hob nail boots on..And possibly more bling than you can shake a microfibre cloth at..The future is wedge shaped...Ziga

[al 350i]

someone has already beaten you to it zig

all you need to know and more http://www.vintagemodelairplane.com/pages/Download...

[Danny Hoffman]

Mark - I'm sure there are a few of us oldies that used to moan about lack of points and new fangled fuel injection - and I'm trained in electronics!

However in reality these systems are massively more reliable and once you get over the initial reluctance to get stuck in usually are not to bad to diagnose and components can often be repaired.

Also don't forget the masses of help available on the Internet - Ian had diagnosed more problem in minutes.

I had an old Jag (XJ40) years ago which had computers in every corner and all of them failed during my ownership, they would probably have cost £1,000s to replace but I managed to fix them all myself.

Whilst I accept more modern systems which allow full mapping would be more efficient there must be loads of flapper cars still running around quite happily.

Having said all that now that I have diagnosed my problem my first attempt to fix it failed ............

[mrzigazaga]

Thanks Danny...I guess i will have to learn all over again in the same way i did with the 280..Maybe a good start would be to get the ECU re-soldered and tested and then do the obligatory cleaning and checking of earths..Or at least obtain a spare just in case..Although im not planning on needing any of it just yet as the 350i im going to look at is all up and doing it..Im taking a well knowledged wedger with me who know's the RV8 very well as back up as i know very little about them at the moment..Cheers...Ziga

[blitzracing]

Ive done loads on the 14cux- but its hotwire not flapper so only on late Wedges.

http://www.g33.co.uk/fuel_injection.htm

[SporttiJanne]

Here is how I sorted my ECU related problems:

I had some problems with my 350i last summer. Sometimes it worked ok, but a couple of times I had to limp home while engine was not running propely. Spent some time to find the fault, but soon realized that more productive would be to remove all the Lucas ECU related parts and wiring. After all, they were over 20 years old and propably seen many repairs and fixes that I was not aware of.

Binned this lot (see photo):
http://jannenr1.kuvat.fi/kuvat/Projektit/TVR+350i/...

Fitted a new wiring with ViPEC ECU and spent some time on the dyno. See result before and after:
http://jannenr1.kuvat.fi/kuvat/Projektit/TVR+350i/...
(Password = Mr. Wilkinsons given name, with lower case letters.)

So far the best modification to my Wedge. I does not stall when the fan comes on, as it used to do with Lucas...
(If anyone is in need of the old gear, they are still available.)

[jon haines]

I can speak from experience here mark. i had issues with mine for over 2 years before i sorted it. even specialists didnt sort it and removed plenty of money from my wallet!replaced airflow meter, temp coolant sensor, throttle potentiometer,coil, the thingy on the side of the alternator,thermotine switch, plugs and disconected the cold start and still s***e running so the only thing left was the ecu replaced that and its been a dream since. never added up how much it cost cos i would have cried like a baby

[Danny Hoffman]

jon haines said:

the thingy on the side of the alternator

What thingy on the side of the alternator? I don't think I've got one - hope that's not my prob :-)

All those parts you listed come up on flee regularly for not a lot of cash. I paid less than £20 for a complete setup, the only parts that look knackered are the injectors.

Obviously the ECU may be different - see my other thread, but at least it's use-able to diagnose the fault.

[Danny Hoffman]

mrzigazaga said:

Im taking a well knowledged wedger with me who know's the RV8

A couple of pointers, if the cam has done over 40k miles it probably needs replacing (I know you have had experience of this in your V6) and check the oil pressure when it's really warm. Apart from that just the usual checks for any engine

[jon haines]

Hi Danny,It wasnt the cost of the parts that was that dear it was the labour cost of experts to check through that cost. the ecu was nearly £200 for a recond one.sorry i ment the thingy on the side of the distributor.

[mrzigazaga]

Danny Hoffman said:

A couple of pointers, if the cam has done over 40k miles it probably needs replacing (I know you have had experience of this in your V6) and check the oil pressure when it's really warm. Apart from that just the usual checks for any engine

Cheers for that..Its done 69000..Better take a compression tester...Especially as i dont believe in god...Ziga

[Danny Hoffman]

Hopefully you will find a bill for a new cam in the history. A compression test won't indicate the condition of the cam

[keatsie]

http://www.theseacpages.co.uk/media/wedge_epistles...

This is always an interesting read, but I don't think the V8's are more or less reliable than the V'6. They both have gremlins

[mrzigazaga]

Danny Hoffman said:

Hopefully you will find a bill for a new cam in the history. A compression test won't indicate the condition of the cam

True..I just remembered that it didnt show much for the V6...A slight difference but not unusual..There are history files with the car so hopefully it will of had a replacement...Cheers...Ziga

PS:Im worried now.....

[Danny Hoffman]

mrzigazaga said:

PS:Im worried now.....

I've ran a 280i as my only car for 2 years (James MK now owns it and has improved it massively) and the 350i as a regularly used second car for 16 years/70,000 miles. My gut tells me the 350i is probably less reliable, virtually all of my serious (potentially leave me stranded) problems were clutch related.

I would say the key is to keep on top of things, regular checks and don't ignore any minor issues.

The engine on my 350i had serious issues when I bought it as a non runner - long story, but once it was going within a few months I discovered the cam was knackered. The only symptom I was aware of was that when I gave it the full beans the varying suction caused the flapper to bang shut. I drove it for months like that until I worked out the cause. It drove perfectly whilst pootling around, idled smoothly etc.

Suffice to say once a new cam was installed it felt noticeably faster

[Danny Hoffman]

SporttiJanne said:

Here is how I sorted my ECU related problems:

Binned this lot (see photo):

Do you still have the original ECU or did you really bin it?