V8 - Possible head gasket leak
V8 - Possible head gasket leak
Author
Discussion

adam quantrill

Original Poster:

11,679 posts

272 months

Thursday 18th April 2013
quotequote all
I think some of my problems may be related to the coolant being forced out of the system.

What are good ways to check for head gasket leaks? With the header tank in a funny place I doubt if I'll see bubbles coming up when it's cold...

ElvisWedgely

2,715 posts

195 months

Thursday 18th April 2013
quotequote all
Coolant test for monoxide exhaust gasses is a good test or compression test of the cylinders or both.

Tony. TCB

Oz2

962 posts

218 months

Thursday 18th April 2013
quotequote all
Where is your header tank, Adam

maston

872 posts

182 months

Thursday 18th April 2013
quotequote all
Adam,

I have a compression tester if you would like to borrow it.
And I agree with Elvis, if the coolant wiffs of fuel that is also a sign.

Regards

Ian

utternutter

80 posts

187 months

Thursday 18th April 2013
quotequote all
i had the same problem 2 years ago on my 350i, loss of coolant while hot and pressurising forcing coolant out of the overflow on the header tank, also i did have the bubbles in the header tank after revving the engine and letting it idle back, the other sign of the head gasket gone was foaming in the header tank as well.

adam quantrill

Original Poster:

11,679 posts

272 months

Thursday 18th April 2013
quotequote all
Thanks for the suggestions. I don't know if a compression test will necessarily show anything - I have a gauge and will try it but if the leak isn't huge then the compression may just be within normal tolerances.

I'll have a sniff of the coolant but haven't noticed any foaming.

mrzigazaga

18,816 posts

195 months

Thursday 18th April 2013
quotequote all
adam quantrill said:
Thanks for the suggestions. I don't know if a compression test will necessarily show anything - I have a gauge and will try it but if the leak isn't huge then the compression may just be within normal tolerances.

I'll have a sniff of the coolant but haven't noticed any foaming.
Hi Adam..When my head gaskets was failing on the 280 i had no foaming..The compression test showed no abnormalities but i was losing coolant but couldnt see where..It would overheat if i sat in traffic and the header tank smelt highly of fumes..Although i didnt think it did..There were hydrocarbons in the coolant even after topping up...A good garage should have a calibrated tester with clean fluid..Ziga

Number 7

4,113 posts

292 months

Thursday 18th April 2013
quotequote all
I had a blown HG about 3 years ago on the 400. No coolant pressurisation or loss, although you could hear that something wasn't right - it sounded like a manifold / pipe blow. When I got it apart, the gasket had failed without hitting a waterway (due to a stripped HG stud) which had taken several years to manifest itself.

adam quantrill

Original Poster:

11,679 posts

272 months

Saturday 20th April 2013
quotequote all
Even simpler - just did a test on mine using common household ingredients and a vague recollection of my chemi O level.

So - with the engine running on old it wasn't outputting any foam but there was the odd bubble of gas. On mine the header tank is connected to the swan neck via one pipe only - it's a bit of an odd arrangement.

Anyhow I put the pressure cap back on and ran it for a few minutes at 2000 rpm, and it did start putting bubbles of gas down the pipe to the overflow (catch) tank - but what was this gas?
A rudimentary knowledge of combustion shows that any gases produced in the cylinders will be mainly CO2, CO forming a small proportion, so that's what I set out to detect.

Luckily my house is made if st and sticks being 400 years old so I have a handy supply of lime for any patching up. Put a teaspoon of lime into a jam jar, shake it up, leave it for 5 mins then filter gives you clear lime water. Then I bubbled the gas from the overflow pipe through this and hey presto - it turned milky clearly showing the presence of CO2.

I didn't even bother getting the compression tester hooked up, it's fairly clear cut.

So - where to get composite head gaskets (I reckon these will work well with the engine being supercharged 'n' all) and do I change the cam at the same time as it's approaching 60k miles?

RPI do some for £35 a pair for 94mm bore engines which I guess this is, it being 4l, plus I'll need a valley gasket and the rubber seals I expect.

It's been a while since I did this I know the inlet manifold has to come off but can I leave the plenum cover on it in situ? Also do you think I can get away with leaving the exhaust manifolds attached to the heads - just want to disturb the minimum possible...

Wedg1e

27,040 posts

295 months

Saturday 20th April 2013
quotequote all
adam quantrill said:
Even simpler - just did a test on mine using common household ingredients and a vague recollection of my chemi O level.

So - with the engine running on old it wasn't outputting any foam but there was the odd bubble of gas. On mine the header tank is connected to the swan neck via one pipe only - it's a bit of an odd arrangement.

Anyhow I put the pressure cap back on and ran it for a few minutes at 2000 rpm, and it did start putting bubbles of gas down the pipe to the overflow (catch) tank - but what was this gas?
A rudimentary knowledge of combustion shows that any gases produced in the cylinders will be mainly CO2, CO forming a small proportion, so that's what I set out to detect.

Luckily my house is made if st and sticks being 400 years old so I have a handy supply of lime for any patching up. Put a teaspoon of lime into a jam jar, shake it up, leave it for 5 mins then filter gives you clear lime water. Then I bubbled the gas from the overflow pipe through this and hey presto - it turned milky clearly showing the presence of CO2.

I didn't even bother getting the compression tester hooked up, it's fairly clear cut.

So - where to get composite head gaskets (I reckon these will work well with the engine being supercharged 'n' all) and do I change the cam at the same time as it's approaching 60k miles?

RPI do some for £35 a pair for 94mm bore engines which I guess this is, it being 4l, plus I'll need a valley gasket and the rubber seals I expect.

It's been a while since I did this I know the inlet manifold has to come off but can I leave the plenum cover on it in situ? Also do you think I can get away with leaving the exhaust manifolds attached to the heads - just want to disturb the minimum possible...
A mate of mine was a chemist, he isn't any more
'cos what he thought was H2O was H2SO4


biggrin

Plenum could stay in place but for the sake of 6 bolts and a smear of sealant it's no hardship to remove.
Exhaust manifolds might be more of a problem owing to the head studs; as the heads slide up they'll move outward so the manifolds probably won't clear the chassis/ side of the engine bay.

scratchchin Of course if the heads are bolted rather than on studs it may not be an issue: why not try it and report back? biggrin


adam quantrill

Original Poster:

11,679 posts

272 months

Saturday 20th April 2013
quotequote all
I expect that the heads are bolted, in which case I was thinking of changing over to studs anyway to get better clamping. So I would be in the same boat.

An ARP stud kit is around £95 from the 'states but what is the difference with using standard studding cut to length? Standard studding is a few quid a metre which would come to around 20 sobs.

Convert

3,757 posts

248 months

Saturday 20th April 2013
quotequote all
Adam, I got exhaust manifold studs from a local motor spares, with washers and brass nuts, total cost was about £15.

adam quantrill

Original Poster:

11,679 posts

272 months

Saturday 20th April 2013
quotequote all
Hmm - so head studs should be around 30 quid not 90.

I found a full set of gaskets from Rimmer's for 40 quid, composite head and valley. Only downer is the rocker cover gaskets are illustrated as cork, but I have a pair of rubber ones anyway.

So - do I do the camshaft too -- hmmm....

Wedg1e

27,040 posts

295 months

Sunday 21st April 2013
quotequote all
adam quantrill said:
An ARP stud kit is around £95 from the 'states but what is the difference with using standard studding cut to length? Standard studding is a few quid a metre which would come to around 20 sobs.
At a guess, standard studding is made from monkey-metal and the real thing is high-tensile steel of known provenance and some quality control?
I've seen studding on jobs at work what wasn't even round rolleyes

carsy

3,019 posts

195 months

Sunday 21st April 2013
quotequote all
You can get the ARP head studs from Real Steel. They are a quality product. When you think what you are tightening them up to i would bother with threaded bar.

utternutter

80 posts

187 months

Sunday 21st April 2013
quotequote all
adam quantrill said:
Even simpler - just did a test on mine using common household ingredients and a vague recollection of my chemi O level.

So - with the engine running on old it wasn't outputting any foam but there was the odd bubble of gas. On mine the header tank is connected to the swan neck via one pipe only - it's a bit of an odd arrangement.

Anyhow I put the pressure cap back on and ran it for a few minutes at 2000 rpm, and it did start putting bubbles of gas down the pipe to the overflow (catch) tank - but what was this gas?
A rudimentary knowledge of combustion shows that any gases produced in the cylinders will be mainly CO2, CO forming a small proportion, so that's what I set out to detect.

Luckily my house is made if st and sticks being 400 years old so I have a handy supply of lime for any patching up. Put a teaspoon of lime into a jam jar, shake it up, leave it for 5 mins then filter gives you clear lime water. Then I bubbled the gas from the overflow pipe through this and hey presto - it turned milky clearly showing the presence of CO2.

I didn't even bother getting the compression tester hooked up, it's fairly clear cut.

So - where to get composite head gaskets (I reckon these will work well with the engine being supercharged 'n' all) and do I change the cam at the same time as it's approaching 60k miles?

RPI do some for £35 a pair for 94mm bore engines which I guess this is, it being 4l, plus I'll need a valley gasket and the rubber seals I expect.

It's been a while since I did this I know the inlet manifold has to come off but can I leave the plenum cover on it in situ? Also do you think I can get away with leaving the exhaust manifolds attached to the heads - just want to disturb the minimum possible...
Bloody hell professor lol :-))

adam quantrill

Original Poster:

11,679 posts

272 months

Wednesday 24th April 2013
quotequote all
Just got my gasket set - first time with a composite valley gasket:

a) Any need to smear the faces with sealant or anything before assembly?
b) Can a composite valley gasket be re-used? It seems that it doesn't crush like a tin one, so maybe...

Danny Hoffman

1,617 posts

292 months

Wednesday 24th April 2013
quotequote all
I don't know for sure but it would seem sensible to use some sealant, mine has always leaked a little oil since I fitted it without any - more than 10 years ago.

Have you decided what to do about your cam yet?

Edited by Danny Hoffman on Wednesday 24th April 17:37

keatsie

326 posts

194 months

Wednesday 24th April 2013
quotequote all
No, no sealant. The gaskets are designed to seal without. Check the heads are not warped, but no sealant....

adam quantrill

Original Poster:

11,679 posts

272 months

Wednesday 24th April 2013
quotequote all
I'll look at the cam first with the rocker covers off then with the heads off, to check the lift and lobes the make a decision at the time. As it has been mainly me driving it I don't forsee definite wear unless there's a fault, but we shall see.