How original should our wedges be?
Discussion
Recently Andy (Mr. Tank) wrote "I keep my cars as original as poss and if its there my task is to to keep it as it was! TVR built it like this and I am trying to preserve TVR cars as they were built not treated as a custom car!"
And that is the reason for my question. Which of these is you?
It is my car and I can do whatever I like to it.
It is a national treasure and should be treated like a historic building.
I want to keep the character of the car, but I will make changes to get more pleasure out of it.
In my case I am making many minor changes, mostly for looks, for safety and just because I want to. However I am throwing all the rusty junk and bits I have replaced into a cardboard box in case some future owner wants them.
Wilf.
And that is the reason for my question. Which of these is you?
It is my car and I can do whatever I like to it.
It is a national treasure and should be treated like a historic building.
I want to keep the character of the car, but I will make changes to get more pleasure out of it.
In my case I am making many minor changes, mostly for looks, for safety and just because I want to. However I am throwing all the rusty junk and bits I have replaced into a cardboard box in case some future owner wants them.
Wilf.
Hmmm, my first thought was ".. as original as poss .." could actually cover an awfully wide margin in reality.
I take the view that the car should stay looking original if possible and practicable.
Even then, stuff like trim, seats, etc wear out, and even recovering/retrimming the seats could be classed as non-original if one wants to be pedantic. After 30 or more years, some stuff is simply not available any more.
Mechanically, If I think the design sucks, I'm not afraid to change it, as long as it's not TOO obvious and there's a big improvement in the change.
Some of the photos in various places show TVRs with entirely new suspension, engines, dash, and that's fine by me if it keeps the car rolling, but I also can understand that some of us would wince...
I also think an entirely original car (if such a thing still exists) would end up being worth more to collectors, but do we look at the car, or do we drive it ?
I take the view that the car should stay looking original if possible and practicable.
Even then, stuff like trim, seats, etc wear out, and even recovering/retrimming the seats could be classed as non-original if one wants to be pedantic. After 30 or more years, some stuff is simply not available any more.
Mechanically, If I think the design sucks, I'm not afraid to change it, as long as it's not TOO obvious and there's a big improvement in the change.
Some of the photos in various places show TVRs with entirely new suspension, engines, dash, and that's fine by me if it keeps the car rolling, but I also can understand that some of us would wince...
I also think an entirely original car (if such a thing still exists) would end up being worth more to collectors, but do we look at the car, or do we drive it ?
For me it's my car and whatever goes, but as I have no intention of ever selling is fine, for those who don't think I am saying what I mean check out how long I have owned my Karmann Ghia ! I fully understand and agree that other views are correct/right, the fact Andy thinks original is best is fine, but that's his right and I hope both views are good, A wedge is a wedge the cars are special and so are the owners, each to there own, keep as many cars ( wedge's) on the road as we can. 
Good Question ' my wedge has 70k on it and had a few owners also very cheap...so I'm making it just what i want! i don't care about re sale 'but the car is now worth alot more as it now runs and even got a fresh paint job of which i changed the colour from cream to white ......... but if i had got a car all original low miles and mint then i probably wouldn't mess with it .....i had always wanted a TVR ....and now ive got one ( my son already has his eye on it) lol
RCK974X said:
Hmmm, my first thought was ".. as original as poss .." could actually cover an awfully wide margin in reality.
I take the view that the car should stay looking original if possible and practicable.
Even then, stuff like trim, seats, etc wear out, and even recovering/retrimming the seats could be classed as non-original if one wants to be pedantic. After 30 or more years, some stuff is simply not available any more.
Mechanically, If I think the design sucks, I'm not afraid to change it, as long as it's not TOO obvious and there's a big improvement in the change.
Some of the photos in various places show TVRs with entirely new suspension, engines, dash, and that's fine by me if it keeps the car rolling, but I also can understand that some of us would wince...
I also think an entirely original car (if such a thing still exists) would end up being worth more to collectors, but do we look at the car, or do we drive it ?
I can agree here completley as long as a few people keep a few cars in Original as poiss condition then great, do what you like as its always been proven that originalty will allways get the best price in the future. I take the view that the car should stay looking original if possible and practicable.
Even then, stuff like trim, seats, etc wear out, and even recovering/retrimming the seats could be classed as non-original if one wants to be pedantic. After 30 or more years, some stuff is simply not available any more.
Mechanically, If I think the design sucks, I'm not afraid to change it, as long as it's not TOO obvious and there's a big improvement in the change.
Some of the photos in various places show TVRs with entirely new suspension, engines, dash, and that's fine by me if it keeps the car rolling, but I also can understand that some of us would wince...
I also think an entirely original car (if such a thing still exists) would end up being worth more to collectors, but do we look at the car, or do we drive it ?
So go a head and customise your cars!
As old farts like me, who keep them original will benfit!
But in fact we all benfit you for doing what you want and like, just as I do what I like doing and I get a great buzz showing people TVR History!
Plus the future finacal benfit!
Andy
Edited by Mr Tank on Wednesday 1st May 09:52
As with any car, it's only a car, do with it as you will. But be prepared that come sale time your market may be reduced by the number of people who would rather it was as 'original' as possible.
I always say that if a modification is 'in keeping' with the TVR ethos then fair enough; if it's something that TVR could realistically have done themselves then even better (I use the cruise control on my car as an example; it's assembled from SD1 and Range Rover parts that were all around when the Wedge was still in production).
I draw the line at some of the bling that gets thrown at Wedges though: carbon fibre stick-on tat is a case in point, as is anything done to follow a current fashion trend such as Lexus lights or BMW M3 mirrors (sorry Henry, I think your car fell foul of my wrath on such matters when I first saw it at a 'Fest some years ago). TVR would surely have never caved-in to such faddery or herd-following. They'd be designing their own mirrors or nicking the lights from Concorde or something at least remotely classy.
Inappropriate alloy wheels, too, get a thumbs-down from me. There are few wheel styles that suit a Wedge; I've never even been convinced by the cross-spokes fitted by the factory but I guess the choice was a lot more restricted in the 80s... and maybe therein lies the root of this thinking; if Wedges were built now there'd be more options of wheels, funkier paint, different interior textiles, hand-carved switchgear made from Unobtanium, so the bluff old traditionalists would have to put up with whatever chav-tastic footballers' whims they might encounter - assuming you could get it past Peter Wheeler's ghost of course
If PW didn't like it, he just wouldn't build it, so who knows what nasties he spared us...
I always say that if a modification is 'in keeping' with the TVR ethos then fair enough; if it's something that TVR could realistically have done themselves then even better (I use the cruise control on my car as an example; it's assembled from SD1 and Range Rover parts that were all around when the Wedge was still in production).
I draw the line at some of the bling that gets thrown at Wedges though: carbon fibre stick-on tat is a case in point, as is anything done to follow a current fashion trend such as Lexus lights or BMW M3 mirrors (sorry Henry, I think your car fell foul of my wrath on such matters when I first saw it at a 'Fest some years ago
). TVR would surely have never caved-in to such faddery or herd-following. They'd be designing their own mirrors or nicking the lights from Concorde or something at least remotely classy.Inappropriate alloy wheels, too, get a thumbs-down from me. There are few wheel styles that suit a Wedge; I've never even been convinced by the cross-spokes fitted by the factory but I guess the choice was a lot more restricted in the 80s... and maybe therein lies the root of this thinking; if Wedges were built now there'd be more options of wheels, funkier paint, different interior textiles, hand-carved switchgear made from Unobtanium, so the bluff old traditionalists would have to put up with whatever chav-tastic footballers' whims they might encounter - assuming you could get it past Peter Wheeler's ghost of course
If PW didn't like it, he just wouldn't build it, so who knows what nasties he spared us...
That's a great point Wedg1e - what *would* our beloved Wedge TVRs be like, and what options would they have if built today, or a few years ago, instead of 20-30 ??
I reckon TVR always used common parts even up to later cars, didn't they ? (I don't know)
Or was that their downfall, moving away from the 'kit' like approach ?
What would they be using for engines and transmissions ?? Their own engines ?
At the risk of being laughed at I wonder if they might have Jap engines ? After all some of those V8 engines have fabulous reputations, as good as (or better than) the trusty LS Chevy range, and 400 bhp or more. Perhaps BMW ??
And what would fit instead of the 4HU diffs ?? There's not many rear wheel drive cars around anymore. The 'S' range had Sierra diffs didn't they ? I understand they are pretty strong too, and a lot lighter than the 4HU.
Interesting idea to think about - "suggest modern parts for the wedge !!"
I reckon TVR always used common parts even up to later cars, didn't they ? (I don't know)
Or was that their downfall, moving away from the 'kit' like approach ?
What would they be using for engines and transmissions ?? Their own engines ?
At the risk of being laughed at I wonder if they might have Jap engines ? After all some of those V8 engines have fabulous reputations, as good as (or better than) the trusty LS Chevy range, and 400 bhp or more. Perhaps BMW ??
And what would fit instead of the 4HU diffs ?? There's not many rear wheel drive cars around anymore. The 'S' range had Sierra diffs didn't they ? I understand they are pretty strong too, and a lot lighter than the 4HU.
Interesting idea to think about - "suggest modern parts for the wedge !!"
D*mn - I composed a longer and more "thoughtful" post and it disappeared. Not re-doing it but IMHO the issue is: old (basically) original vs 'good' improvement vs silly bling. Multiplied by whether you want to keep it forever (do what you want) vs. hold and sell.
Same as most "not yet" collector cars. Modify at your own risk.
Save the old bits if possible and logical (rims not shot bushings).
Long term, the value will be with original. Real upgrades (Zig's 280i-SE) may command a price on their own.
just 2 cents. Grady
Same as most "not yet" collector cars. Modify at your own risk.
Save the old bits if possible and logical (rims not shot bushings).
Long term, the value will be with original. Real upgrades (Zig's 280i-SE) may command a price on their own.
just 2 cents. Grady
Well as you will see over the coming months
I'm restoring (to a certain extent) my 350i
I'm going to keep the exterior as is was with a new paint job, keeping the original colour, but that's cus I like the original.
Yea I may pop a boot spoiler on and I'm going to reduce the amount of badges, but it will look pretty much as it did.
However the interior is going to have seats out if an Alfa, they are simply better, they look better the ride is far better IMO
I am keeping the original seats although they are a mess, and anything I do to the car will be easily changed back to its original form. For when I re sell. As the buyer may have a different opinion.
I haven't had one long, but lets face it from the little I do know the Wedge is the Frankenstein of cars anyway.
I'm not going loose any sleep over the fact I've replaced my TVR or should I say Triumph 2500 seats and replaced them with Alfa seats.
I'm restoring (to a certain extent) my 350i
I'm going to keep the exterior as is was with a new paint job, keeping the original colour, but that's cus I like the original.
Yea I may pop a boot spoiler on and I'm going to reduce the amount of badges, but it will look pretty much as it did.
However the interior is going to have seats out if an Alfa, they are simply better, they look better the ride is far better IMO
I am keeping the original seats although they are a mess, and anything I do to the car will be easily changed back to its original form. For when I re sell. As the buyer may have a different opinion.
I haven't had one long, but lets face it from the little I do know the Wedge is the Frankenstein of cars anyway.
I'm not going loose any sleep over the fact I've replaced my TVR or should I say Triumph 2500 seats and replaced them with Alfa seats.
As I'm extremely unlikely to ever sell mine, it doesn't matter massively about the originality from a point of view of rareness and/or resale values etc.
For a long time, all mods were reversible so I could have got the car back to factory fit relatively easily - even the rollbar, race seat, harnesses, bigger brakes, different wheels, suspension could have been swapped back. However, when the engine went 'pop, bang, crash, rattle', and I had to decide whether to stay true to the original (ie replace with another 4.5), I chose to go the 'more power' route and replaced with a 4.8. That, due to the carbs, meant the mod to the bonnet needed doing too.
So, the car is definitely not going to go back to being original. As 1 of 35, some people might not agree with what I've done (although I've either never met them or they've never said it to my face!) but at the end of the day, more people compliment me on the car and at the end of the day, it is mine and I like it
If another aspect of originality is the "cleanliness" and "tidyness" of interior and exterior, then mine fails on that front too
For a long time, all mods were reversible so I could have got the car back to factory fit relatively easily - even the rollbar, race seat, harnesses, bigger brakes, different wheels, suspension could have been swapped back. However, when the engine went 'pop, bang, crash, rattle', and I had to decide whether to stay true to the original (ie replace with another 4.5), I chose to go the 'more power' route and replaced with a 4.8. That, due to the carbs, meant the mod to the bonnet needed doing too.
So, the car is definitely not going to go back to being original. As 1 of 35, some people might not agree with what I've done (although I've either never met them or they've never said it to my face!) but at the end of the day, more people compliment me on the car and at the end of the day, it is mine and I like it
If another aspect of originality is the "cleanliness" and "tidyness" of interior and exterior, then mine fails on that front too
Up to the owner.
Mine ain't original. Simple things like a stainless zorst or chromed oil filter (not had one for a while now), engine, fans. Looking out for some different switches but not seen anything suitable. Might consider an alternative to the pop up lamps if the motors ever get impossible.
Like the wheels but some bling is nice. Would go for the struts from a Griff or shiny wiper stalks etc. On the subject of wheels, mine have the balancing weights on both sides as trying to sort them out keeping the outside rims clear was a mare (really were awkward and hard to balance), so I put up with that as the benefits are many.
Mine ain't original. Simple things like a stainless zorst or chromed oil filter (not had one for a while now), engine, fans. Looking out for some different switches but not seen anything suitable. Might consider an alternative to the pop up lamps if the motors ever get impossible.
Like the wheels but some bling is nice. Would go for the struts from a Griff or shiny wiper stalks etc. On the subject of wheels, mine have the balancing weights on both sides as trying to sort them out keeping the outside rims clear was a mare (really were awkward and hard to balance), so I put up with that as the benefits are many.
This is my personal opinion..I know my engine bay is like looking into a jewellers shop window and is not to everyones taste but thats just my preference..Whenever i went to a classic car show's in the past the engines were always mint..There are some bits on mine that are not original but i think are in keeping with what TVR might of done..Ok..I ground off the ford logo on the plenum and put a TVR one on it?....I have had custom made switchgear that is almost identical to the original?..Hand made hand brake cover..?..A TVR gear knob?...A stainless steel catch tank?..Soon to have an alloy washer bottle and an alloy expansion tank?...Stainless steel headers and S/S exhaust system?..Nissan seats..I had an original set to go back in but sold to a needy wedge owner..But will replace at some point...?...A hand made walnut horn push?..Unleaded heads with lower compression..Can be replaced with just U/L...A supercharger which might of been the route that TVR would of taken if they had not needed to build the V8..(Maybe)..But it can be taken off?..An ignition system that utilises the old dizzy which can be taken off?..A 4-pot caliper conversion?..Domed rubber TVR wheel centre badges?..New type rocker switches on the centre console..Only because i couldnt find a good original set?..A metal TVR badge on the boot?..For me upgrades are things that are as close to the original but benefit the running and handling of the car..Some parts are just unobtainable so a replacement is needed..I had as many parts as possible refurbed so it's within keeping..Plus im hopefully going to keep delilah for a long time...The other upgrades im considering is having the wiring from switch to light pods replaced and maybe different headlamp bowls with brighter beams..(If the re-wire doesnt sort it)..The twin horns for a louder set..Possibly a 400 style boot spoiler..possibly some later style TVR door mirrors..Possibly a set of perspex black smoked sun visors..Im proud of my wedge and thats why she is so shiny and colourful..Dont forget also that i suffered an illness that made me house bound for over 15 years!..Delilah was my salvation so i owe her a massive thank you..Nothing can take the place of love for a woman but there is nothing wrong with buying her some lovely jewellry to match her beauty..I know its only a car but i really believe it has a soul..Very strange i know..Its also the only car i have ever loved...(Still deciding when to set the marriage date..)..
Whoops nearly forgot..Had a replacement engine but still a cologne V6..(Still have the original)..Slight chassis mod to accept the S/C crank pulley..Chrome boot hinges..Even if they are the wrong way round..An airbox mod with a K&N filter in the nose cone..Better than having the air intake taking hot air from the rad..I think thats it..
Whoops nearly forgot..Had a replacement engine but still a cologne V6..(Still have the original)..Slight chassis mod to accept the S/C crank pulley..Chrome boot hinges..Even if they are the wrong way round..An airbox mod with a K&N filter in the nose cone..Better than having the air intake taking hot air from the rad..I think thats it..
Edited by mrzigazaga on Wednesday 1st May 09:34
Wedg1e said:
I draw the line at some of the bling that gets thrown at Wedges though: carbon fibre stick-on tat is a case in point, as is anything done to follow a current fashion trend such as Lexus lights or BMW M3 mirrors (sorry Henry, I think your car fell foul of my wrath on such matters when I first saw it at a 'Fest some years ago ). TVR would surely have never caved-in to such faddery or herd-following.
I agree with the comments about stick-on tat. My car had been the subject of a very personal makeover by the previous owner. The tat has been removed several years ago as you will be able to see if you pop round. Ian, please keep up to date.). TVR would surely have never caved-in to such faddery or herd-following.Some other points are down to personal taste, particularly alloy wheels.
My car is definitely not original in many aspects. Any changes that I have made apart from removing tat, has been in the interest of safety and drivability. I have an open door for anyone who wishes to inspect.
There are those of those who wish to have a car as original as possible and there are others.
Please don't leave your Wedge only as an object to admire. Safe driving to all and use them every day.
Wedg1e said:
jmorgan said:
Would go for the struts from a Griff or shiny wiper stalks etc.
Shiny stalks you say... Actually the whole plastic around the steering wheel... maybe not
Mind you, had a Moto Lita steering wheel in the Vixen. Shiny nuts all set into the polished wood. Hurt like the proverbial when you got back to the car on a sunny day.
Another point to bear in mind, as I found with the quality of welding of the chassis, is that some parts of the Wedge are not of good quality. Never mind -
I consider the Wedge is a car suited to fettlers. It is a simple car that an enthusiast or someone with more money than sense can indulge themselves. I bought mine not with my eyes open, more about keeping it and getting it right as it should heve been built.
Wedg1e said:
... If PW didn't like it, he just wouldn't build it, so who knows what nasties he spared us...
- I wonder what else was built to a cost.I consider the Wedge is a car suited to fettlers. It is a simple car that an enthusiast or someone with more money than sense can indulge themselves. I bought mine not with my eyes open, more about keeping it and getting it right as it should heve been built.
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