O/T snapped glow plug removal?
Discussion
Sorry Gents bit of an off topic question for you.
A mate of mine has a 2.0 diesel Nissan Largo. It's a van mini bus type thing. Fairly horrible but useful.
He took it to a garage to have the glow plugs replaced and some other work done. After getting a bill for over 300 quid he was informed that one of the old glow plugs had snapped in the head and there was nothing the garage could do!
Anyway thus was some time ago and he's only just mentioned it to me. He a bit on the skins side solve offered to help.
It's one of this vehicles where the engine sits under the front seats. So last weekend I striped the trim out to have a look what was involved. I could clearly see the broken glow plug and access is good.
I can see the internal electrode? Of the plug. The questions are should I try to drill it out and then re-tap the head. And thn try and ensure there has been no metallic debris left in the cylinder.
Or would it be possible to use and extractor? I read a post on here' a few days ago about some type of release agent that worked well exhaust manifold bolts. Can't remember what it was called. But would this be worth a go prior to trying an extractor.
I've got a pic but can't post for the iPad.
Your thoughts would be appreciated.
Cheers Karl.
A mate of mine has a 2.0 diesel Nissan Largo. It's a van mini bus type thing. Fairly horrible but useful.
He took it to a garage to have the glow plugs replaced and some other work done. After getting a bill for over 300 quid he was informed that one of the old glow plugs had snapped in the head and there was nothing the garage could do!
Anyway thus was some time ago and he's only just mentioned it to me. He a bit on the skins side solve offered to help.
It's one of this vehicles where the engine sits under the front seats. So last weekend I striped the trim out to have a look what was involved. I could clearly see the broken glow plug and access is good.
I can see the internal electrode? Of the plug. The questions are should I try to drill it out and then re-tap the head. And thn try and ensure there has been no metallic debris left in the cylinder.
Or would it be possible to use and extractor? I read a post on here' a few days ago about some type of release agent that worked well exhaust manifold bolts. Can't remember what it was called. But would this be worth a go prior to trying an extractor.
I've got a pic but can't post for the iPad.
Your thoughts would be appreciated.
Cheers Karl.
Personally I would leave it as it is. If the broken glow plug is making a good seal on the cylinder head then the engine should be capable of starting with just three glow plugs even on the coldest day, and as glow plugs are just for starting purposes, it won't effect the running of the engine when warm.
If you try to remove the broken glow plug the chances are you'll damage the threads and re tapping a new thread with the cylinder head in place may contaminate the cylinder with metal particles and damage the bore. The whole thing could turn into a disaster as it really is a cylinder head off job and cutting corners may prove to be expensive. Disturbing the broken glow plug will break the seal and the cylinder will loose compression hence the engine won't run unless it's fixed properly by taking the cylinder head off.
That is my advise as I have had similar problems on a Peugeot engine and ended up plugging the whole with a larger bolt in order to re seal.
Tony. TCB.
If you try to remove the broken glow plug the chances are you'll damage the threads and re tapping a new thread with the cylinder head in place may contaminate the cylinder with metal particles and damage the bore. The whole thing could turn into a disaster as it really is a cylinder head off job and cutting corners may prove to be expensive. Disturbing the broken glow plug will break the seal and the cylinder will loose compression hence the engine won't run unless it's fixed properly by taking the cylinder head off.
That is my advise as I have had similar problems on a Peugeot engine and ended up plugging the whole with a larger bolt in order to re seal.
Tony. TCB.
You could try an extractor but it'd have to be a quality one, not some Machine Mart rubbish. Otherwise it'll probably snap as well, leaving you even more bu99ered than Roache/Harris/Travis will be in a few months time.
I'd be tempted to drill it out as concentrically as possible if the access is as good as you say: once you have most of the body out the heat and vibration may have helped the remaining, by now thin-walled threaded bit to loosen so you can unscrew it, saving the cylinder head thread.
I'd have my workshop Henry with a length of small-bore hose taped to the nozzle to get in close and extract the swarf as I drilled.
I'd be tempted to drill it out as concentrically as possible if the access is as good as you say: once you have most of the body out the heat and vibration may have helped the remaining, by now thin-walled threaded bit to loosen so you can unscrew it, saving the cylinder head thread.
I'd have my workshop Henry with a length of small-bore hose taped to the nozzle to get in close and extract the swarf as I drilled.
Thanks for the advice guys. Not sure how to proceed at the minute. It will have to be my mates decision in the end.
But some thing needs to be done. It just won't start from cool with just 3 plugs. As Tony said I would have thought it should be ok. But it's not having it. Great once warm though?
Cheers Karl.
But some thing needs to be done. It just won't start from cool with just 3 plugs. As Tony said I would have thought it should be ok. But it's not having it. Great once warm though?
Cheers Karl.
At fist a bit drowsy I thought "who'd put a diesel engine in a Wedge?"
Anyhow do diesel engines respond well to a quirt of something onto the air cleaner e.g. a little petrol? In which case you could get it started on 3 glow plugs plus some cold start stuff.
Anyhow I had a quick look on the flea and you can buy easy start quite cheap and it works on diesels, so I'd have either that or a small bottle of something volatile would do the trick.
Anyhow do diesel engines respond well to a quirt of something onto the air cleaner e.g. a little petrol? In which case you could get it started on 3 glow plugs plus some cold start stuff.
Anyhow I had a quick look on the flea and you can buy easy start quite cheap and it works on diesels, so I'd have either that or a small bottle of something volatile would do the trick.
Edited by adam quantrill on Tuesday 21st January 08:21
V8 Fettler said:
Are the other 3 glow plugs working? Can you give them a couple of cycles? Switch ignition on, wait for glow plug light to go out, switch off ignition, switch on, wait for glow plug light to go out again, try and start engine.
Yep. That was my first suggestion as well. He said he's done upto 10 cycles and it still won't have it. The other 3 plugs are new. I remember having to do the same at least 3-4 time to spark up my old Astramax van.It does start eventually but need a lot of cranking.
Yatesy350i said:
V8 Fettler said:
Are the other 3 glow plugs working? Can you give them a couple of cycles? Switch ignition on, wait for glow plug light to go out, switch off ignition, switch on, wait for glow plug light to go out again, try and start engine.
Yep. That was my first suggestion as well. He said he's done upto 10 cycles and it still won't have it. The other 3 plugs are new. I remember having to do the same at least 3-4 time to spark up my old Astramax van.It does start eventually but need a lot of cranking.
If it doesn't start with three working glow plugs, there must be some other problem such as low cylinder compression. Remember, diesel ignites under compression, therefore if the compression is low, that would account for the difficulty in starting.
There is a spray called 'easystart' (I believe the American version is called 'start u bast*rd'). Anyhow, they both do the same thing. All you have to do is spray the 'easystart' into the intake as you're cranking the engine and it'll fire up even if the compression is low. It's a cheap solution and you could keep a can in the van at all times. The other alternative is to only drive it in the summer.
Tony. TCB.
There is a spray called 'easystart' (I believe the American version is called 'start u bast*rd'). Anyhow, they both do the same thing. All you have to do is spray the 'easystart' into the intake as you're cranking the engine and it'll fire up even if the compression is low. It's a cheap solution and you could keep a can in the van at all times. The other alternative is to only drive it in the summer.
Tony. TCB.
phillpot said:
there was a fairly well held belief when I was a lad (and diesel engines didn't come in anything smaller than a Transit van) that engines became "addicted" to that stuff, once used they wouldn't start without it!
I think its because it ignites and burns at a much higher temperature than diesel, and will quickly kick the crap out of the engine internals, hence why someone above mentioned to 'use it on an old banger' (ad lib)Stu
Careful with the ether on a diesel!!!!
A four pot diesel should start on three glow plugs, but lumpy at first, although the problem is the timing relies on the change of current flow, and with only three it screws up the indicator.
Is this a garage serviced car?
I used to have diesel taxis some had different voltage glow plugs some 11.5v and some 9.6V same model different year.
I also found glow plugs lasted two weeks of two years (five years on domestic car)
I used to keep one of those old style batteries with the exposed lead links for testing glow plugs so I had a 10v supply.
Big arse jump lead and spit on the business end.
To do the job properly an extractor far better choice than drilling.
Break free, freeze off or what ever they call it now, tap with a hammer and keep the extractor as square as possible.
Glow plugs can be difficult they always have a lot of build up and usually "squeak" all the way out.
Dry as hell.
ETA use an external extractor you will not get a glow plug out with the left hand thread taper type.
Not enough leverage.
IMHO.
A four pot diesel should start on three glow plugs, but lumpy at first, although the problem is the timing relies on the change of current flow, and with only three it screws up the indicator.
Is this a garage serviced car?
I used to have diesel taxis some had different voltage glow plugs some 11.5v and some 9.6V same model different year.
I also found glow plugs lasted two weeks of two years (five years on domestic car)
I used to keep one of those old style batteries with the exposed lead links for testing glow plugs so I had a 10v supply.
Big arse jump lead and spit on the business end.
To do the job properly an extractor far better choice than drilling.
Break free, freeze off or what ever they call it now, tap with a hammer and keep the extractor as square as possible.
Glow plugs can be difficult they always have a lot of build up and usually "squeak" all the way out.
Dry as hell.
ETA use an external extractor you will not get a glow plug out with the left hand thread taper type.
Not enough leverage.
IMHO.
Edited by jeff m2 on Tuesday 21st January 19:54
As already stated the engine should fire on three working plugs, although it will blow black smoke for a while and be extremely lumpy until the fourth cylinder ignites correctly.
I would check that the other three are actually heating, it sounds suspiciously like they aren't. Using a starter spray is both a balls ache to do, especially first thing in the freezing cold and not particularly smart, really is only a last resort.
Any fault codes on the dash? Fuel pumps both working ok.
I would check that the other three are actually heating, it sounds suspiciously like they aren't. Using a starter spray is both a balls ache to do, especially first thing in the freezing cold and not particularly smart, really is only a last resort.
Any fault codes on the dash? Fuel pumps both working ok.
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