Cold Air Induction

[chapperssx]

Hi guys I need to get your thoughts on a cold air induction for the SX ! At present I have the carbon air box fitted and have received the cool air induction pipe ! Now while looking through the other Tiv forums I have come across a few LS7 conversions ( Don't worry I'm not pulling the 4l out lol ) Some of these have there cold air feed going through the front wing and to be honest this is the only place in the engine bay that will take an 80mm cold air feed !

So do you for see any problems in doing this ?
Are there any do's and don'ts with it ?

Would just like to add there is no way I can route this pipe to the front of the car because there just isn't the room !!

I have a plan in my head on how I will achieve this but just wondered if you guys had any thoughts on it before I proceed tomorrow ?

[Rockettvr]

I'm guessing you want this to be unobtrusive, otherwise I'd have thought the quickest easiest and best way would be a bonnet scoop

[chapperssx]

Hi Ron I have thought of some type of bonnet scoop but have not found one that wouldn't ruin the lines of the car ! My main reason for asking is there is an inner and outer skin to the arch with about an 8-10mm gap in between... I will be strengthening the area between the inner and outer skins so cant see that being a problem... There will be no way that any particles will be able to enter the inlet in the arch as it has a mesh grill built in, also the inlet has a kind of fixed angle venetian blind setup....My way of thinking is that with the rotation of the wheel I can position the inlet to catch the air so to give a little help to sucking the required air in ? Of coarse I maybe barking up the wrong tree with this assumption Lol...Anyway I will report back tomorrow if things went the way I planed

[wooly350i]

chapperssx said:

Hi Ron I have thought of some type of bonnet scoop but have not found one that wouldn't ruin the lines of the car ! My main reason for asking is there is an inner and outer skin to the arch with about an 8-10mm gap in between... I will be strengthening the area between the inner and outer skins so cant see that being a problem... There will be no way that any particles will be able to enter the inlet in the arch as it has a mesh grill built in, also the inlet has a kind of fixed angle venetian blind setup....My way of thinking is that with the rotation of the wheel I can position the inlet to catch the air so to give a little help to sucking the required air in ? Of coarse I maybe barking up the wrong tree with this assumption Lol...Anyway I will report back tomorrow if things went the way I planed

Fan blades on the wheel, thatll work!!!

[adam quantrill]

How about make up a box around the battery area with a seal onto the bonnet when it closes.

Then the pipe sucks in from that area - which gets its air from the bonnet louvre. Job done!

[Oz2]

Hi Martin,

I took two 50 mm pipes up from the front spoiler, the holes inside of the spotlights.
The pipes already feed up to the bulkhead for the air vents near the door but with the roof off, who needs'm.

[chapperssx]

Adam Q
Hi mate I did think about moving the battery to the boot and as you say making a cold air box under the top bonnet louvres, I think doing this would involve much more work and to be honest the BBWF is rolling up fast and don't think I would have things finished in time, plus on the 19th the SX goes in for a fresh MOT... But thanks for the reply bud

Adam Oz2
Hi bud the two holes adjacent to the spot lights was my first thought and would be perfect but with the addition of the intercooler there just isn't the room bud, so hence my decision to put a vent into the wheel arch !
As I have mentioned some of the big LS conversions have vents to the arch so think the idea is sound ! Today we will see if all goes well ! GULP !!

Wooly if I were to make the SX into an anfibios car fan blades would be ideal ! But don't won't to take things that far Lol

Cheers guys !!!!

[Oz2]

[quote=chapperssx]
Adam Oz2
Hi bud the two holes adjacent to the spot lights was my first thought and would be perfect but with the addition of the intercooler there just isn't the room bud, so hence my decision to put a vent into the wheel arch !
As I have mentioned some of the big LS conversions have vents to the arch so think the idea is sound ! Today we will see if all goes well ! GULP !! :

But the 50 mm pipes travel from the spoiler through under the light pod to then run close to the wall of the wheel arch then through the arch into the engine bay and up to the bulkhead. At least on mine it does so looking at the pics of yours it should work?? I think, I could be wrong but it's never happened yet. Lol

[adam quantrill]

In my idea you leave the battery alone and the air flows around it. There's quite a bit of room.

[chapperssx]

Oz2 said:

chapperssx said:

Adam Oz2
Hi bud the two holes adjacent to the spot lights was my first thought and would be perfect but with the addition of the intercooler there just isn't the room bud, so hence my decision to put a vent into the wheel arch !
As I have mentioned some of the big LS conversions have vents to the arch so think the idea is sound ! Today we will see if all goes well ! GULP !! :

But the 50 mm pipes travel from the spoiler through under the light pod to then run close to the wall of the wheel arch then through the arch into the engine bay and up to the bulkhead. At least on mine it does so looking at the pics of yours it should work?? I think, I could be wrong but it's never happened yet. Lol

Hi Adam on the SX mate I've never had any pipes running up to the bulkhead ! do you have a picture of where the pipes run through the arch ?

[Oz2]

It's all on here Martin.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

[wooly350i]

Hi Adam, just looked back through the link, very impressed with your efforts. What thickness plenum insulator to you use as I've used a 6mm version on mine, collectively it all adds up to a good temp drop, wooly.

[Oz2]

wooly350i said:

Hi Adam, just looked back through the link, very impressed with your efforts. What thickness plenum insulator to you use as I've used a 6mm version on mine, collectively it all adds up to a good temp drop, wooly.

Hi, yes I think mine was also a 6 mm one, I'm not sure a 10mm fits as there isn't much room between the plenum and the underside of the bonnet once closed....so I'm told, I didn't try the plasticine trick!!

The plenum still gets real hot, I guess the supercharger heats it up more than usual but I can now put my hand on it, before it was just too hot to touch.

It seems to work well, with 2 x 50 mm silicone pipes from the front and the air over the bonnet lip there is plenty of air getting in and it's noticeably cooler.

The mould now resides in Essex if anyone wants to make one, you would have to configure the afm as the SX's are though.

Adam

[wooly350i]

Your right mate, the 10mm was going to be too thick, wedg1e knocked me a 6mm version up after I gave him a template.
wooly

[Wedg1e]

Oz2 said:

Hi, yes I think mine was also a 6 mm one, I'm not sure a 10mm fits as there isn't much room between the plenum and the underside of the bonnet once closed....so I'm told, I didn't try the plasticine trick!!

You can always shorten the trumpet base by 10mm to compensate...

[Wedg1e]

I'm sure I remember a discussion (and possibly someone trying it) where the the idea was to have the air filter poking through the inner face of the wing (which is double-skinned of course) and there being a hole cut down at the front of the car to allow the air up through the wing, bypassing the engine bay and not drawing crud through the wheelarch... but I'm really old now and sometimes I get things wrong

[Oz2]

Wedg1e said:

You can always shorten the trumpet base by 10mm to compensate...

So going by that you could say sandwich two insulators with an ally spacer, but in my case and other sx owners I think, now I have an insulator installed a bulk of the heat is coming from the supercharger which goes full circle and back to installing a complicated and expencive plus more weight to carry, intercooler. Doh!!!

[chapperssx]

Adam it well worth the hassle investing in an intercooler bud ! It dropped my temps by 64 degrees !!

[mrzigazaga]

chapperssx said:

Adam it well worth the hassle investing in an intercooler bud ! It dropped my temps by 64 degrees !!

Hi Martin... Thing is as you know with the twin screw superchargers they squash the air which then becomes heated by the action of compression so the initial air intake temperature is the key factor, However there are more factors to consider..

Under bonnet temperatures also have a dramatic effect on this issue..If the air is being drawn from outside which was how Delilah was then the intake temperature would be a lot cooler than if the air filter/Intake was in the engine compartment as is with the SX...However if under bonnet temperatures are high then associated pipework for the blower is going to get hot!..Unfortunately there is not the room under a Wedge bonnet for certain important mods.
Essentially with all blower applications the cooling system should be upgraded and i saw a dramatic change in under bonnet temperature with the adage of a Kenlowe turbo boost fan, Ideally staying on after the engine has been switched off.

Heat shields help and air intake pipes/Vents add flow to draw out un-wanted heat..I found that when the blower was added to mine the position of it hindered the natural flow from the nosecone to the top vent on the bonnet..This is where the boost fan helped..

The intercooler is helping as much as it can with your intake temperature..Perhaps water injection is better but to greatly reduce the intake temperature further i would imagine a cool tube kit would work but again its having the room for it...

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&...

This is a good concept as the tube is used in conjunction with a refrigerant which is linked to a valved system that in turn is linked to the throttle..Normally full throttle so that when you lay the power down the tube almost freezes the air passing through it thus giving cold dense air which obviously improves performance noticeably.

This would go pre-blower and then the air intake temperature will still be considerably lower even after compression.

So what are you trying to cool..Intake or under bonnet temperatures?...Or both.

Remember you are limited/Influenced by ambient temperatures which are only fractionally changed by the introduction of the proportional changes you make..However if forced than the changes are noticeably higher..
Increasing the flow under bonnet to reduce the build up of heat is one factor..Inducing cooler air which is greater than available is also another factor yet combined have a dramatic overall effect.

Basically i think the mod you are doing might only achieve small results...I could be wrong but don't think its going to be that simple....Ziga

[JVaughan]

Forgive my commenting, im not an authority on this subject, but given the temperatures that a NA Wedge can create under the bonnet, i imagine you forced induction boys are really suffering.

I cannot believe no one has utilized the massive empty space in the wedge nose cone, around the lights etc. there are blanks and apertures for ducing already there, plus, if your going to the trouble of fabricating airboxes and ducts, why not put a few more smaller, more efficient radiators in the front, loose the standard radiator and take advantage of the large frontal air intake for the induction side of things.


Just my view of the world ..