Rear wheel bearing....FFS!!
Discussion
Hi Peeps...Can someone please clarify what i need to buy as the N/S rear wheel bearing is naggered!!....There is serious up and down movement in the hub carrier, More so in the wheel...You can feel it rocking and its not the UJ..I think the ones on Delilah were Granada but with two seals..Are they the same for the 350i...What a pain?.....Cheers...Ziga
Yatesy350i said:
Mark
ML Performance. Will sort you right out mate. You will even get the extra required seal.
Thanks Karl...I might give Neil a call but if it is the same as the 280 then i can get them 20 quid cheaper...ML Performance. Will sort you right out mate. You will even get the extra required seal.
Number 7 said:
Mark, same as the 280i. Is the hub nut torqued up properly?
Hi Paul...I did think it might be the hub nut but i haven't got a socket big enough or a torque wrench so i can't check it..I haven't noticed any rumbling as such but then i probably won't hear it anyway over the exhaust.Would a loose hub nut cause a rocking of the inner spline that it is bolted to?...There is a definite rocking up and down when you hold the wheel at 12 and 6 o clock..Its at least 1/2 of play and its easy to move....Cheers...Ziga
mrzigazaga said:
Hi Paul...I did think it might be the hub nut but i haven't got a socket big enough or a torque wrench so i can't check it..I haven't noticed any rumbling as such but then i probably won't hear it anyway over the exhaust.
Would a loose hub nut cause a rocking of the inner spline that it is bolted to?...There is a definite rocking up and down when you hold the wheel at 12 and 6 o clock..Its at least 1/2 of play and its easy to move....Cheers...Ziga
Mark, I've got the socket and the right size torque wrench. I've pm'ed youWould a loose hub nut cause a rocking of the inner spline that it is bolted to?...There is a definite rocking up and down when you hold the wheel at 12 and 6 o clock..Its at least 1/2 of play and its easy to move....Cheers...Ziga
You may be suffering from an elliptical bearing housing, I have a similar problem approx 6mm of play measured at the top edge of the tyre, I've changed the bearing twice and also the housing and managed to buy a new replacement housing that's also elliptical, in my case there is no play in the 3 - 9 o'clock axis.
Cheers for all the help...I think it may be all four that are knackered as i just got a friend to rock the rear N/S wheel in and out and the O/S rear and front wheels feel like they have too much play in them also...I had the fronts adjusted recently and the inner and outer UJ's replaced..I did jack up each corner and they all had a tiny amount of rocking in them but it felt worst with the wheels on the ground and the weight of the car on them!..
I can see the outer seal on the N/S rear and it is visible on the face at 5 0clock only..You can't see any rubber around it beyond that..I have a castellated nut and the split pin is only through the spline..There is only about 1mm of thread showing from the edge of the nut...(Wheel side)..Should there be more or does it vary?...Looks like i might be getting the coach!....Ziga
I can see the outer seal on the N/S rear and it is visible on the face at 5 0clock only..You can't see any rubber around it beyond that..I have a castellated nut and the split pin is only through the spline..There is only about 1mm of thread showing from the edge of the nut...(Wheel side)..Should there be more or does it vary?...Looks like i might be getting the coach!....Ziga
Mark.... Deep breathing and be systematic again!!!!
First the front Ford wheel bearings are designed to have end float in them, the amount and adjustment has been well covered on this forum.
As to the rears. Jack up car and support on axle stands. With wheels on and a long lever under the tyre at 6 oclock lift and check for play. Have a assitant to do it so you can look and feel where the play is, it will be iether the bearing or the associated U/J's or the hub carrier bushes. As to the hub nut, if as you have said the split pin is through the castillated nut and shaft and they are still intact, then the bolt cannot have come loose. This assumes that it has been fitted and torqued up correctly in the first place. A bearing that is about to expire will have the symptoms you have mentioned, tightning it will accelerate the failure. I think it was Ron on the forum that had a sheared shaft due to over drilling,so might be worth asking him the symptoms he had before discovery of this issue? Take your time and find the issue, the amount of play you are describing will not be hard to identify
Chris
First the front Ford wheel bearings are designed to have end float in them, the amount and adjustment has been well covered on this forum.
As to the rears. Jack up car and support on axle stands. With wheels on and a long lever under the tyre at 6 oclock lift and check for play. Have a assitant to do it so you can look and feel where the play is, it will be iether the bearing or the associated U/J's or the hub carrier bushes. As to the hub nut, if as you have said the split pin is through the castillated nut and shaft and they are still intact, then the bolt cannot have come loose. This assumes that it has been fitted and torqued up correctly in the first place. A bearing that is about to expire will have the symptoms you have mentioned, tightning it will accelerate the failure. I think it was Ron on the forum that had a sheared shaft due to over drilling,so might be worth asking him the symptoms he had before discovery of this issue? Take your time and find the issue, the amount of play you are describing will not be hard to identify
Chris
AFAIK - Rear bearings are Ford Granada Mk2 (the square one). The bearing asembly comes in a single package, with end float already built in, so just tighten hub nut as far as you can, more or less (about 200 ft lbs torque).
There should be NO detectable movement in the rear hub, up/down or side/side.
Make sure it's not the UJ in the drive shaft first I reckon.
As float built in, I don't think tightening nut will do anything (unless it's loose of course)
Getting the nut undone is challenge one... loosen it before getting it off the car, if you can. BIG lever and strong spanner/socket.
Getting the old bearing out is difficult, as casting is ally and bearing is steel - mine took a couple of days soaking in a mix of wd40,oil,petrol, but I did manage to get it out without damage.
Seals are not quite same as Ford - TVR uses two seals the same, which match one of the Ford ones in the kit, so you need a second seal.
I think you are supposed to use a new nyloc nut - I couldn't find any, so I used loctite on my old one - it hasn't come loose....
Good Luck....
There should be NO detectable movement in the rear hub, up/down or side/side.
Make sure it's not the UJ in the drive shaft first I reckon.
As float built in, I don't think tightening nut will do anything (unless it's loose of course)
Getting the nut undone is challenge one... loosen it before getting it off the car, if you can. BIG lever and strong spanner/socket.
Getting the old bearing out is difficult, as casting is ally and bearing is steel - mine took a couple of days soaking in a mix of wd40,oil,petrol, but I did manage to get it out without damage.
Seals are not quite same as Ford - TVR uses two seals the same, which match one of the Ford ones in the kit, so you need a second seal.
I think you are supposed to use a new nyloc nut - I couldn't find any, so I used loctite on my old one - it hasn't come loose....
Good Luck....
Edited by RCK974X on Sunday 1st June 21:37
Thanks Chris...After much deep breathing...I think it is just the N/S rear bearing that needs replacing as i first thought...I did jack up each corner and checked the 12 & 6 and then the 3 & 9 position of each wheel, There was even play at the front wheels of around 3mm which didn't concern me, Plus they were only adjusted a short time ago by Dan.
The O/S didn't feel like there was any play in it at all..Well about 2mm overall which again didn't concern me..I think my mate pulling at the wheels while on the ground just planted an evil seed in my head, Panic ensued and "Mr Jones" the butcher appeared.."Don't panic mr Manwaring..The wheels are about to come off...The wheels are about to come off....Don't panic...Don't panic"...
Im more concerned that its only 4 days until the fest!..
I have ordered a wheel bearing that should be here for tuesday so i will give my mate a call at the ford garage as he charged me 20 smackers for doing the one on Delilah....Although the A frame will have to come off as the two bolts are seized on the lower wishbone/Hub assembly.
The Uj's were replaced so i know they are ok, There is some movement in the bushes as they could do with being changed..Not desperately though ...Panic over..I think i was entering into the realms of fantasy again!...Thanks to everyone for their advice and offers of help..I love this forum...
The O/S didn't feel like there was any play in it at all..Well about 2mm overall which again didn't concern me..I think my mate pulling at the wheels while on the ground just planted an evil seed in my head, Panic ensued and "Mr Jones" the butcher appeared.."Don't panic mr Manwaring..The wheels are about to come off...The wheels are about to come off....Don't panic...Don't panic"...
Im more concerned that its only 4 days until the fest!..
I have ordered a wheel bearing that should be here for tuesday so i will give my mate a call at the ford garage as he charged me 20 smackers for doing the one on Delilah....Although the A frame will have to come off as the two bolts are seized on the lower wishbone/Hub assembly.
The Uj's were replaced so i know they are ok, There is some movement in the bushes as they could do with being changed..Not desperately though ...Panic over..I think i was entering into the realms of fantasy again!...Thanks to everyone for their advice and offers of help..I love this forum...
Hi
Chris it was indeed me who had a broken shaft last year. Think it was caused by putting the nearside wheel into a massive pothole which broke the weakened shaft ( drilled twice for split pins) the symptoms were just a feeling of looseness and waywardness at the rear. On investigation I found the rear wheel could be moved around 10mm top and bottom off the horizontal at the rim. At first I thought bearing failure but on trying to remove the nut the end of the shaft came with it!!!
Zig
As said the fronts should have a LITTLE play in them. Easy to adjust , I was taught that you tighten up the nut whilst turning the wheel until you start to feel it all starting to tighten up a bit then you back the nut off to the next point where you can re insert the split pin - takes maybe 5 min a side. As for the rear you shouldn't be able to rock the wheel at all. Does sound like bearing failing or loose or possibly a bush on rear suspension?
Good luck ron
Chris it was indeed me who had a broken shaft last year. Think it was caused by putting the nearside wheel into a massive pothole which broke the weakened shaft ( drilled twice for split pins) the symptoms were just a feeling of looseness and waywardness at the rear. On investigation I found the rear wheel could be moved around 10mm top and bottom off the horizontal at the rim. At first I thought bearing failure but on trying to remove the nut the end of the shaft came with it!!!
Zig
As said the fronts should have a LITTLE play in them. Easy to adjust , I was taught that you tighten up the nut whilst turning the wheel until you start to feel it all starting to tighten up a bit then you back the nut off to the next point where you can re insert the split pin - takes maybe 5 min a side. As for the rear you shouldn't be able to rock the wheel at all. Does sound like bearing failing or loose or possibly a bush on rear suspension?
Good luck ron
I've been told off several times for the Front bearings being too slack, and you do hear of complaints that younger machanics say they have failed, because they are used to FWD setups with no detectable play.
Fronts are easy, and it's not fatal if you do run them a little slack.....but it IS fatal to tighten them up too much.
Fronts are easy, and it's not fatal if you do run them a little slack.....but it IS fatal to tighten them up too much.
Thanks Ron...There was also a clockwise and anti-clockwise movement of around 1/4 on the Hub plate..(Think thats what its called) with a definite knock like metal on metal at each point of stop..I didn't get a chance to rotate the rears to check for grinding as the car is on a bad camber in the road due to lack of parking spaces around here and the axle stands and jack would need to be different heights...Ill check them tomorrow ...Cheers...Ziga
Don't over tighten the front bearings!!!
I had two fail on me within a week of following the advice about winding up till the wheel stops rotating then back off a bit.
The problem is that the hub casting can warm up and expand faster than the stub axle which will overstress the bearings, in my case causing them to spin on the axle and finally become welded up.
The correct way is to use a dial gauge and measure the end-float of the bearing, I have described this and the tools needed (not expensive) in another thread on this forum.
Take a copy of the Heynes Granada book with you to the MOT if you think the mechanic might give you grief over the slack.
Russ
I had two fail on me within a week of following the advice about winding up till the wheel stops rotating then back off a bit.
The problem is that the hub casting can warm up and expand faster than the stub axle which will overstress the bearings, in my case causing them to spin on the axle and finally become welded up.
The correct way is to use a dial gauge and measure the end-float of the bearing, I have described this and the tools needed (not expensive) in another thread on this forum.
Take a copy of the Heynes Granada book with you to the MOT if you think the mechanic might give you grief over the slack.
Russ
I've found if ever the hub nut comes loose it knackers the bearing.
Normally they are noisy also if knackered.
Depending on the hub, very early ones it was a pain to get the bearing out, my 10 ton press could not handle it and had to use the 25 ton one.
Your a bit far but are welcome to bring the hub over and use my press.
Normally they are noisy also if knackered.
Depending on the hub, very early ones it was a pain to get the bearing out, my 10 ton press could not handle it and had to use the 25 ton one.
Your a bit far but are welcome to bring the hub over and use my press.
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