Discussion
It's all Glens fault with his very nice 4 pot Willwood brakes on his billy bargain Wedge. I'm seriously thinking of upgrading the front brakes and not quite sure which way to go. Currently running standard calipers with Mintex 1144's and they are okay but do start to smell under heavy repeated braking so was thinking of going the 4 pot vented route. Options are:
1. I've got a tatty set of Princess 4 pots with spacers so refurb them and get new vented discs. Probably cost me in the region of £250 to £300. Issue is that the Princess calipers still weigh a load and according to several threads are a pain to bleed. Plus time is a little precious at the moment due to a recent death in the family and loads to sort out (probate/house clearance/ house sale etc).
2. Go the Willwood 4 pot route with suitable vented discs. Cost around £480 + VAT.
3. Go the HiSpec upgrade kit, again with vented discs and all the bits and pieces - cost around £590 + VAT. They do come in very shiny red.
I'm assuming the Willwood and HiSpec calipers are lighter than the Princess units, they will be brand new, not refurbished and hopefully will be easier to bleed.
What are peoples views on this? I know Glen has the Willwood set-up. Anyone running the HiSpec calipers? Thanks.
1. I've got a tatty set of Princess 4 pots with spacers so refurb them and get new vented discs. Probably cost me in the region of £250 to £300. Issue is that the Princess calipers still weigh a load and according to several threads are a pain to bleed. Plus time is a little precious at the moment due to a recent death in the family and loads to sort out (probate/house clearance/ house sale etc).
2. Go the Willwood 4 pot route with suitable vented discs. Cost around £480 + VAT.
3. Go the HiSpec upgrade kit, again with vented discs and all the bits and pieces - cost around £590 + VAT. They do come in very shiny red.
I'm assuming the Willwood and HiSpec calipers are lighter than the Princess units, they will be brand new, not refurbished and hopefully will be easier to bleed.
What are peoples views on this? I know Glen has the Willwood set-up. Anyone running the HiSpec calipers? Thanks.
IMO the paltry bit of weight you'd save by fitting lighter calipers is irrelevant given the design of the suspension anyway.
Bleeding the Princess calipers is a one-off job; granted it might be time-consuming but if it leaves three hundred sheets in your back pocket that's not an issue, surely?
OTOH if you just like to spend money, we're not going to stop you
Bleeding the Princess calipers is a one-off job; granted it might be time-consuming but if it leaves three hundred sheets in your back pocket that's not an issue, surely?
OTOH if you just like to spend money, we're not going to stop you
KKson said:
Being a tight Northerner spending money is not something I particularly like! Performance wise as all three options are 4 pots I'm assuming that they all should offer similar performance?
Hmmm, not from what I've heard. That said I have driven a wedge with the Princess conversion and it was definitely better than my 390... but now having said that, with new rear discs and new pads all round it's possibly the best I've ever known it 
I don't tend to drive it hard (if I want to move quickly I get the bike out, and even then 'quickly' is relative, it's not that fast as bikes go) but have had the bits to add Princess calipers to my vented Granada discs for years... when I get one of those 'round tuits' that people go on about
Here are the 2 types I've had on wedges, the top one is the current Wilwood option, the bottom one is the WMS ones that were on the silver wedge.......I sold those to Leigh on here so perhaps call him to see if they are on his shelf still?
and is it me or does the disc on the Wilwood option look bigger?.......hmmm better got out and measure, as I'm now thinking that is why there were 16" alloy on her.......hope I haven't dropped a clangger with my alloy purchase
and second notice is the wilwood's sit more upright vs slung down on the others
and is it me or does the disc on the Wilwood option look bigger?.......hmmm better got out and measure, as I'm now thinking that is why there were 16" alloy on her.......hope I haven't dropped a clangger with my alloy purchase
and second notice is the wilwood's sit more upright vs slung down on the others
Edited by gmw9666 on Wednesday 13th May 08:37
Edited by gmw9666 on Wednesday 13th May 08:55
mk2 24v said:
Personally I'd go for vented granada discs of a decent quality and some decent pads, and make sure the calipers are functioning as they should be.
Never had troubles on my 1430kg wagon with them on the front and 205 wide tyres
When I get a mo I'll measure the surface area of both Granada and Princess pads; I know the Princess pads overhang the Granny discs so lose some area and the APs have 4 pistons but it might actually be the case that there isn't as much of an improvement as everyone says Never had troubles on my 1430kg wagon with them on the front and 205 wide tyres
There must be formulae for force x area x radius or whatever that would show if there's a theoretical gain... Adam?
KKson said:
1. I've got a tatty set of Princess 4 pots with spacers so refurb them and get new vented discs. Probably cost me in the region of £250 to £300. Issue is that the Princess calipers still weigh a load and according to several threads are a pain to bleed. Plus time is a little precious at the moment due to a recent death in the family and loads to sort out (probate/house clearance/ house sale etc).
I flushed my brake fluid every year for about the last 12 years or so, and I've never had a problem. Yes, each caliper has 4 bleed nipples, and I do flush through all of them so its a bit time consuming, but using an easybleed is, well, easy.Number 7 said:
I flushed my brake fluid every year for about the last 12 years or so, and I've never had a problem. Yes, each caliper has 4 bleed nipples, and I do flush through all of them so its a bit time consuming, but using an easybleed is, well, easy.
Were you able to compare 'before and after' against the Granada setup, and did it have vented discs?Wedg1e said:
Were you able to compare 'before and after' against the Granada setup, and did it have vented discs?
If you mean a comparison with my old 350, not really, it was so long ago, and didn't have vented discs. The 400 has always had the Princess 4 pots, with separate rotors on alloy bells - standard set up - which I've improved a bit with braided lines, AP rotors with grooves, Ferodo DS2500 pads and Motul 600 racing fluid.
I had these and if I'm honest, although they looked great, they really didn't make much difference to the way the car stopped
Part of the problem seemed to be that going to significantly bigger calipers meant that the master cylinder couldn't move enough volume of brake fluid. This manifested itself in a 'long' brake pedal that was pretty 'soft'.
The Capri boys solve this by going to a Land Rover master cylinder with an adaptor to change it from 2 port to 3 port. These master cylinders are about 20% bigger bore size but the same bolt fitment. At the same time, they recommend using the servo from a 2 litre Cortina/Capri (the wedge one is from a 1.6 Capri/Cortina and a bit smaller). I changed the master cylinder and adaptor (i still have these if anyone wants to buy?) but couldn't change the servo because there just isn't the room on a wedge for the larger servo to fit. The result of this was a hard brake pedal but no real difference to stopping power. In the end I went back the standard master cylinder and just accepted it how it was.
Part of the problem seemed to be that going to significantly bigger calipers meant that the master cylinder couldn't move enough volume of brake fluid. This manifested itself in a 'long' brake pedal that was pretty 'soft'.
The Capri boys solve this by going to a Land Rover master cylinder with an adaptor to change it from 2 port to 3 port. These master cylinders are about 20% bigger bore size but the same bolt fitment. At the same time, they recommend using the servo from a 2 litre Cortina/Capri (the wedge one is from a 1.6 Capri/Cortina and a bit smaller). I changed the master cylinder and adaptor (i still have these if anyone wants to buy?) but couldn't change the servo because there just isn't the room on a wedge for the larger servo to fit. The result of this was a hard brake pedal but no real difference to stopping power. In the end I went back the standard master cylinder and just accepted it how it was.
Edited by simonwedge on Saturday 16th May 06:32
I realised when i had to do an emergency stop in Delilah but still hit a raised crossing kerb..Its an old braking system on an old car and although the AP calipers and vented discs made a difference it wasn't amazing...If you drive according to the road conditions then everything is fine..If you track your car then you should know the limits of your brake system and drive accordingly...
If you have to do an emergency stop at speed..Prepare to hit something!...Even modern cars crash with all their braking assists...They are called "Accidents"...Please drive with due care and attention...Thanks...Ziga
If you have to do an emergency stop at speed..Prepare to hit something!...Even modern cars crash with all their braking assists...They are called "Accidents"...Please drive with due care and attention...Thanks...Ziga
gmw9666 said:
Couldn't a remote servo be fitted if a larger one was needed........relocate the battery and there is heaps of space there?
Forgot to mention tried that as well! Well a variation on a theme anyway, I plumbed one of these in: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/231562779094?ssPageName=... to try and increase the amount of vacuum assistance. Made no difference. I suppose a proper remote servo might stand more of a chance?Gassing Station | Wedges | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff