Sad tale of wedge values
Discussion
(formally coolmartin80) You know the thing i love about wedges is they have character if you drive one down the road kids will shout wow look at that a tvr or walk up to it when parked at a show admiring its shape, dads say "thats a lovely car" kids do to, its a reaction that my mk 1 slk with its gizmo metal folding roof does not get, but the wedge is a marmite car you either love it or you dont and it has a small cult following its really the forgotten car when was the last time you saw a big article on the 280i in a classic car mag, and although it took nearly 30 years for wedge prices to hit rock bottom not the usual 10 (my mk1 slk only 13 years old and worth £1500 ) it all means more are being scrapted or used for kit cars, when i brought my first Tasmin in 2003 in average condition it cost me £4,000 the going rate for a 280i then even though they were nearly 20 years old 350is were going for £6,000 but when i got my other 2 Tasmins in 2009 prices were hitting rock bottom i got them both for £1500. There are according to "HOW MANY LEFT" only 94 Tasmins taxed on the road of all types, in 2001 there where 187 so thats nearly 50 per cent gone in 14 years, TR7s are over 600 taxed and the TR6s over 2500 taxed on the road they are old, crampted and have the handling of a truck but they are handsome brutes that have a bigger cult following also in the early 80s there prices went up and now your paying £12,000 for an average one which is what needs to happen to wedges if we want to see a decent number surviving. i went on google images and saw an early wedge i went on its page and found it was sold at auction in 2009 for over £2500 it was in good condition had a very good interior reg ONR 299W in silver the vendor said tvr club had told him it was the 4th dhc made chassis 500 (forgot all of it but an early chassis no) where is it now well last taxed in late 2011 mot ran out oct 2012 i am right in thinking if you dont tax a car you have to scorn it or dvla fines you so no tax means the car which was 4th dhc made and had lasted since jan 1981 over 30 years has gone for good. 1980s car prices are on the up so i hope Tasmin prices continue to rise also.
I don't think prices have moved.
I paid £2200 for my S1 Tasmin in 1995. I sold it in 2001, after fitting an unleaded-ready XR4i engine and having an £800 respray, for £2200.
You still see Tasmins for sale for £2200, 14 years later.. but I bet you'd struggle to get a respray for £800.
Similarly, I paid £6250 for the 390SE in 2000. Now, how much is a typical 390SE today...?
I paid £2200 for my S1 Tasmin in 1995. I sold it in 2001, after fitting an unleaded-ready XR4i engine and having an £800 respray, for £2200.
You still see Tasmins for sale for £2200, 14 years later.. but I bet you'd struggle to get a respray for £800.
Similarly, I paid £6250 for the 390SE in 2000. Now, how much is a typical 390SE today...?
We all wish our cars were worth more, but if you think about it, once they are over a certain level we'd be too scared to drive them. Consequently, they would become garage queens or museum pieces. The way things are right now, most Wedge owners use their cars without a care in the world and I think that's how classic car ownership should be. We enjoy our cars when most classic owners just sit back and admire them visually, too frightened to take them out incase it effects the value. After all, if that is what I wanted to do, I would just buy a picture and hang it on the wall.
Tony. TCB.
Tony. TCB.
ElvisWedgely said:
We all wish our cars were worth more, but if you think about it, once they are over a certain level we'd be too scared to drive them. Consequently, they would become garage queens or museum pieces. The way things are right now, most Wedge owners use their cars without a care in the world and I think that's how classic car ownership should be. We enjoy our cars when most classic owners just sit back and admire them visually, too frightened to take them out incase it effects the value. After all, if that is what I wanted to do, I would just buy a picture and hang it on the wall.
Tony. TCB.
Absolutely...Mind you ..You could have the best of both worlds and have a pic on the wall as well...Tony. TCB.
Oh yes i agree its great for owners to have wedges at cheep prices because as you say you are not afraid to use them and if like me you have the space and love the shape you can have 3 of them to play with and look after, sadly though if ONR 299W had been on scorn it would say on the dvla website but it does not it just says last taxed 2011 so another one bites the dust, we can not save them all i suppose.
TasminTR7 said:
sadly though if ONR 299W had been on scorn it would say on the dvla website but it does not it just says last taxed 2011 so another one bites the dust, we can not save them all i suppose.
Thats right mate...I wish they could all be saved but I'm not a millionaire...If i was then i would restore them to as original mint condition as possible but restore them to a higher quality of finishing and obviously redesign the electrics..Maybe modify the heater system...And perhaps some ABS brakes fitted...A fully automatic fold down roof section..And maybe an LS engine with programmable ECU...
Slightly wider rear split-rims and a twin fuel sender gauge with marine senders..These are fitted vertically and give an accurate reading of fuel...This is coupled with an aircraft fuel gauge with twin readings...
Oh and glow in the dark paint that changes with your mood...
mrzigazaga said:
Thats right mate...I wish they could all be saved but I'm not a millionaire...If i was then i would restore them to as original mint condition as possible but restore them to a higher quality of finishing and obviously redesign the electrics..Maybe modify the heater system...And perhaps some ABS brakes fitted...A fully automatic fold down roof section..And maybe an LS engine with programmable ECU...
Slightly wider rear split-rims and a twin fuel sender gauge with marine senders..These are fitted vertically and give an accurate reading of fuel...This is coupled with an aircraft fuel gauge with twin readings...
Now I'm not one to poke holes... Slightly wider rear split-rims and a twin fuel sender gauge with marine senders..These are fitted vertically and give an accurate reading of fuel...This is coupled with an aircraft fuel gauge with twin readings...
The fuel sender accuracy is always going to be compromised by the shape of the Wedge tank: even with a vertical float sender there's a percentage error. Boats can have nice cuboid tanks which makes for linear fuel depletion. Twin fuel gauges only make sense when you can switch between tanks (as on a plane, and that's sometimes done for maintaining the aircraft's balance); the Wedge tanks are linked so as the fuel falls in one, it falls in the other so where's the benefit in being able to switch tanks? You'd probably find one tank runs dry just as you need full power up a hill.
The best way to get accurate fuel level on the Wedge would be to monitor fuel flow rate out of and into the tanks. Then a simple circuit based on a PIC chip to calculate the difference, sum it with time and give a digital readout of Litres remaining. Of course you'd have to have some way of telling it how much fuel you put in at refuel time...
What's wrong with the electrics? Would you rather have CANBUS?
Wedg1e said:
What's wrong with the electrics? Would you rather have CANBUS?
Not at all mate...What i should of said was rewire the electrics...Perhaps all the fuel gauge needs is to be inaccurate enough to scare you in to thinking you are out of fuel so that when its reading RED and you are on a motorway miles from the next petrol station sweating like a pig in heavy traffic with no hard shoulder you do eventually make it to a petrol station 10 miles away and as you pull up to the pump the needle magically indicates just over half a tank...Hang on thats how they are anyway...
..Oh well...Maybe just bigger brakes and an LS of ones choice then...jmorgan said:
I just see the wedge fuel gauge as an indication that there might be some fuel slopping around. I work on how far by the size of the last fuel bill.
My trusty fuel gauge has a loose connection, 3/4 full can mysteriously convert to 1/4 full in the time it takes to drive jarring through a pothole. But a quick fingering behind the dash and all is well again.
V8 Fettler said:
My trusty fuel gauge has a loose connection, 3/4 full can mysteriously convert to 1/4 full in the time it takes to drive jarring through a pothole. But a quick fingering behind the dash and all is well again.
Corners are good for me, I know the cross pipes are not blocked, but what you do behind your dash is your business........
Anyhoo...back to Wedge values...
I caveat the following with the statement that this is just my view of things, and I'm usually wrong..
I don't think 280s or FHCs will never be worth anything, except to diehard fans. V8s might have a wider market but given the wedge look is an acquired taste, and most car buffs (present company excepted of course) never acquire it, the market will accordingly remain narrow and limited. IMHO if you have GBP15k to spend on a toy you have a lot of choice these days.
I recall reading an article on "what makes a classic car classic" with a scorecard attached. I didn't agree with all of it but the main factors were; racing heritage (wedges = zip), beauty (I think they're stunning but 8 out of 10 others don't. Karmann Ghia anyone? Awful car in every respect but it looked nice) and the boyhood dream (one day....).
I think also they suffer because they have borrowed engines. Why is any E-Type worth more ( now..) than a Jensen Interceptor? Beats me, but maybe because one's a thoroughbred and the other's a mongrel.
Also, they're not exotic enough (which is a double edged sword) or well enough made. On the bright side, parts and labour are available easily and cheaply, but if it has Cortina front suspension, well...never gonna be worth all that much.
All that goes to say what others have said, that these are cars are for driving and enjoying (and even a bit of fingering given the chance) but don't wrap 'em up in cotton wool and expect to retire on the proceeds.
Personally, I also look at 1. Availability of mechanics/Support, 2. availability of parts and 3. strength of forum/user groups as other critical factors when I buy a classic. And this forum one is the best I've come across. We are (almost the only) ones keeping these odd, quirky but utterly brilliant cars rolling.
Rant ends.
Oh, and if anyone can explain the attraction of TRs to me, I'd be grateful 'cos I just don't get it at all.
I caveat the following with the statement that this is just my view of things, and I'm usually wrong..
I don't think 280s or FHCs will never be worth anything, except to diehard fans. V8s might have a wider market but given the wedge look is an acquired taste, and most car buffs (present company excepted of course) never acquire it, the market will accordingly remain narrow and limited. IMHO if you have GBP15k to spend on a toy you have a lot of choice these days.
I recall reading an article on "what makes a classic car classic" with a scorecard attached. I didn't agree with all of it but the main factors were; racing heritage (wedges = zip), beauty (I think they're stunning but 8 out of 10 others don't. Karmann Ghia anyone? Awful car in every respect but it looked nice) and the boyhood dream (one day....).
I think also they suffer because they have borrowed engines. Why is any E-Type worth more ( now..) than a Jensen Interceptor? Beats me, but maybe because one's a thoroughbred and the other's a mongrel.
Also, they're not exotic enough (which is a double edged sword) or well enough made. On the bright side, parts and labour are available easily and cheaply, but if it has Cortina front suspension, well...never gonna be worth all that much.
All that goes to say what others have said, that these are cars are for driving and enjoying (and even a bit of fingering given the chance) but don't wrap 'em up in cotton wool and expect to retire on the proceeds.
Personally, I also look at 1. Availability of mechanics/Support, 2. availability of parts and 3. strength of forum/user groups as other critical factors when I buy a classic. And this forum one is the best I've come across. We are (almost the only) ones keeping these odd, quirky but utterly brilliant cars rolling.
Rant ends.
Oh, and if anyone can explain the attraction of TRs to me, I'd be grateful 'cos I just don't get it at all.
Never really been worried about residuals. I did not know how long I was going to keep this when I bought it but 15 years now, think I am going to keep it. The only thing that may tempt me would be Cerbera as they make the hooligan Wedge look like nice and safe. And I have seen what they did to other TVR's on a runway.
We keep saying that wedges are an acquired taste! yet every time I go out in mine I get nothing but admiring looks and positive comments, I personally think the shape is looking better as it gets older and whilst it might never be classed as beautiful and curvaceous it does have more appeal than it used to, especially in these days of anything eighties being fashionable. No it will never make us enough money to class as pure investment (mainly because we spend too much on them) but they do deserve to go up in value and there are two in the classified at the moment that look real good buys for someone looking for a wedge. Maybe once people realize what an iconic move this was for TVR (albeit a little too late)and all other so called attractive classic performance cars have gone out of reach, then the vultures will descend.
If i lived in a mansion and had loads of money then my ultimate car would be an original D-Type...Id only settle for a replica if it was a race tuned V12...But i live in South east london in a converted victorian house and ma Wedge does fine..Infact even if i did win the lotto i would have one hell of a stomping Wedge..It would be a smooth as silk to drive..Purring like a kitten in normal mode..But when you floor it, It snarls like a demented sabre tooth tiger and charges off like a rhino snorting fire with a sharp stick up its jacksy...The paintwork will be voice activated....
Once upon a time when my 280i used to break down...A lot..There were the odd dickbrains who used to shout out..."What you broke down mate...Ha ha ha..Thats TVR for ya"..I used to reply.."Up ya b
ks"...But once all sorted i used stop if any modern car had broken down and laugh and say.."You should of bought a TVR"...I have even give modern cars a jump start...So for me the Wedge is all i want...If mine aint worth shyte in 20-30 years time then it will be my tomb..And what tomb it will be...Lara croft would love to raid it..The slut....
Once upon a time when my 280i used to break down...A lot..There were the odd dickbrains who used to shout out..."What you broke down mate...Ha ha ha..Thats TVR for ya"..I used to reply.."Up ya b
ks"...But once all sorted i used stop if any modern car had broken down and laugh and say.."You should of bought a TVR"...I have even give modern cars a jump start...So for me the Wedge is all i want...If mine aint worth shyte in 20-30 years time then it will be my tomb..And what tomb it will be...Lara croft would love to raid it..The slut....I don't think anyone really has any idea what they are worth, we've had several semi running project cars of all engine types sell for between £1500-2000 and beyond in the last year but then we've also had a few pretty good condition cars with an m.o.t sell for between £2000-3000, so it's a bit all over the place. When I got my project I paid £1000 for it and the most expensive 280i in the classifieds for a few months after that were around £3000 (and they were in pretty great condition) but since then I've seen a few listed between £3500-5000, granted not all have sold but several have.
The only thing dictating wedge values is us, every now and then we get a bump where a few sell for pretty reasonable money and then one gets put up for much less and everyone follows suit. Yes they will probably take a while to sell at more reasonable money but in the end they are a 30+ year old sports car with a design that has limited appeal so they're gonna take a while to sell whatever the price, with the amount of new faces on the forums since I've joined from all aspects of the wedge range from 200i to Seac the buyers are clearly out there, even with price fluctuations across the range.
The only thing dictating wedge values is us, every now and then we get a bump where a few sell for pretty reasonable money and then one gets put up for much less and everyone follows suit. Yes they will probably take a while to sell at more reasonable money but in the end they are a 30+ year old sports car with a design that has limited appeal so they're gonna take a while to sell whatever the price, with the amount of new faces on the forums since I've joined from all aspects of the wedge range from 200i to Seac the buyers are clearly out there, even with price fluctuations across the range.
Edited by MonkeykingZX on Monday 1st June 17:42
Wedges are the most undervalued classic car you can buy, were else can you get a full bloodied V8 engine sports car for the money they go for? But I for one am pleased because if they followed the rest of the classic car market they would be in the teens valus wise and I would never have been able to afford one in the first place and would now be tempted to sell. I paid five grand for my 350i 11 years ago and its probably worth similar now sono complaints.
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