Next problem - Wedge won't start
Discussion
Right sorry all for always seeming to need some advice but the Wedge wont start.
In a nut shell - on the way back from Millbrook the Wedge started misfiring. Got it home and found the dissy was pretty shot with lose vacuum advance and ignition amp and rotor arm and cap were doing the hokey cokey as they has warped.
Got new Powerspark dissy - car started fine, no misfire at all but difficult to the get the car timed. When set at 8 degrees BTDC it pinked like a stupid thing so set at TDC all was well. I've done a few hundred miles with it like this without issue, apart from some minor pinking only at very high revs and full load.
Rebuilt old dissy with new seals, rotor arm, cap, ignition amp so decided to refit that on Saturday. Fitted it and dead as a dead thing. No HT spark whatsoever - I suspect the new ignition amp?
So tried a second dissy that was sat in the boot of the 390SE that I've bought - again totally dead, no HT spark.
So refitted the Powerspark unit and great spark both at the king lead and at the HT plug leads but car won't start. I've checked that no 1 piston is indeed at the top of it's stroke at TDC, I've checked static timing and if I crank it with the new and very lovely strobe light attached to No 1 HT lead it flashes exactly as TDC passes, but not a flicker of ignition.
I've got fuel on the rail, the battery is good and charged. I've double checked all connections to ECU, power resistors, AFM etc and all are good. What surprises me is that it was running with this dissy but now it's not.
Thoughts are:
1. I'm assuming that if the strobe picking up the signal from No 1 HT lead does flash at TDC then timing should be okay? I was careful to ensure that the dissy went back in the same position as I took it out but could I be out by 180 degrees? That could account for it? I suppose I could try moving the HT leads around by 180 degrees?
2. If the ignition amp was knackered could it cause trouble with the ECU firing signal - i.e. could it have damaged it?
3. If I've got a good spark and fuel then I doubt the engine immobiliser could be causing issues? But I suppose it depends where it is wired into?
Tomorrow I'll double check all fuses and rotate the HT leads. Is there anything obvious I should also check?
Thanks.
In a nut shell - on the way back from Millbrook the Wedge started misfiring. Got it home and found the dissy was pretty shot with lose vacuum advance and ignition amp and rotor arm and cap were doing the hokey cokey as they has warped.
Got new Powerspark dissy - car started fine, no misfire at all but difficult to the get the car timed. When set at 8 degrees BTDC it pinked like a stupid thing so set at TDC all was well. I've done a few hundred miles with it like this without issue, apart from some minor pinking only at very high revs and full load.
Rebuilt old dissy with new seals, rotor arm, cap, ignition amp so decided to refit that on Saturday. Fitted it and dead as a dead thing. No HT spark whatsoever - I suspect the new ignition amp?
So tried a second dissy that was sat in the boot of the 390SE that I've bought - again totally dead, no HT spark.
So refitted the Powerspark unit and great spark both at the king lead and at the HT plug leads but car won't start. I've checked that no 1 piston is indeed at the top of it's stroke at TDC, I've checked static timing and if I crank it with the new and very lovely strobe light attached to No 1 HT lead it flashes exactly as TDC passes, but not a flicker of ignition.
I've got fuel on the rail, the battery is good and charged. I've double checked all connections to ECU, power resistors, AFM etc and all are good. What surprises me is that it was running with this dissy but now it's not.
Thoughts are:
1. I'm assuming that if the strobe picking up the signal from No 1 HT lead does flash at TDC then timing should be okay? I was careful to ensure that the dissy went back in the same position as I took it out but could I be out by 180 degrees? That could account for it? I suppose I could try moving the HT leads around by 180 degrees?
2. If the ignition amp was knackered could it cause trouble with the ECU firing signal - i.e. could it have damaged it?
3. If I've got a good spark and fuel then I doubt the engine immobiliser could be causing issues? But I suppose it depends where it is wired into?
Tomorrow I'll double check all fuses and rotate the HT leads. Is there anything obvious I should also check?
Thanks.
Sounds like a weird one, If your getting fuel and a spark then the cake baking is complete in theory haha. Never that simple though. I know you've mentioned you have fuel in the rail, and you've checked the connections to the power resistor and AFM but have you checked with a test lamp with the ignition on that you have a 12v feed to them both? I had a similar thing last weekend on mine, had fuel in the rail and spark but no fire. Turned out to be that steering module/diode pack on the relay board. It was just not feeding the power resistors or the AFM, got one on order! Obviously this will only relate to your powerspark dizzy as your getting no spark with the other dizzies.
good luck with it.
good luck with it.
Hi Keith ...Have you tried the rebuilt dizzy with the old amp? or the new dizzy with the old amp...I have heard that some parts can fail from new...The pinking at heavy load might be where you turned the FPR down..I would put that back to 38psi WOT...Hope you suss it out mate...Oh yeah one rule of winning the "Wedge personality award" is that you are not allowed to swear or even indicate you are swearing on here for a year..Of course there are certain situations that cause this to become flexible however a small fine to the charity account may be incurred if the swearing contains lady parts..Mens genitals or animal food...Or all three!
Keep ya chin up mate....Ziga
Keep ya chin up mate....Ziga
mrzigazaga said:
Hi Keith ...Have you tried the rebuilt dizzy with the old amp? or the new dizzy with the old amp...I have heard that some parts can fail from new...The pinking at heavy load might be where you turned the FPR down..I would put that back to 38psi WOT...Hope you suss it out mate...Oh yeah one rule of winning the "Wedge personality award" is that you are not allowed to swear or even indicate you are swearing on here for a year..Of course there are certain situations that cause this to become flexible however a small fine to the charity account may be incurred if the swearing contains lady parts..Mens genitals or animal food...Or all three!
Keep ya chin up mate....Ziga
Yep, tried every combination of dissys with different amps and only the powerspark one works and gives a spark - and bloody good one as well - a good half inch plus off the king lead.Keep ya chin up mate....Ziga
KKson said:
Yep, tried every combination of dissys with different amps and only the powerspark one works and gives a spark - and bloody good one as well - a good half inch plus off the king lead.
Sounds okay...Could be the injectors not opening but it might just be where you have knocked something in the area that you were working in..Could be an earth or a plug...Rimmers have them but try these ...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AFU2913L-BOSCH-RELAY-FUE...
Always have a spare in the box
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AFU2913L-BOSCH-RELAY-FUE...
Always have a spare in the box
Did you have the connections to the ignition amp module the right way around?
If swapping the distributor makes it start then the rest of the ignition and fuel systems must be OK, so leave relays, fuses, diodes, wangleflanges and interossiters alone or you'll only end up with more problems than you started with.
I've said it before but the red steering module is probably the most reliable component on the whole bloody car, in nearly 20 years of working on Wedges I've never seen a faulty one, largely because there's sweet F-all in there to fail and what kind of monkeying would make one go bang I can't begin to guess - AND IT'S NOT A RELAY.
If swapping the distributor makes it start then the rest of the ignition and fuel systems must be OK, so leave relays, fuses, diodes, wangleflanges and interossiters alone or you'll only end up with more problems than you started with.
I've said it before but the red steering module is probably the most reliable component on the whole bloody car, in nearly 20 years of working on Wedges I've never seen a faulty one, largely because there's sweet F-all in there to fail and what kind of monkeying would make one go bang I can't begin to guess - AND IT'S NOT A RELAY.
Wedg1e said:
Did you have the connections to the ignition amp module the right way around?
I was speaking to a friend earlier with a Wedge who has just fitted a new type distributor and he said the same thing...He has rebuilt the old dizzy but has had to use a pick up with the new amp connection so said if doing this make sure the connections from the dizzy to the amp are right way round...He hasn't fitted to test yet as a slight mod is needed to the amp but hopefully if it works could be a good mod for those who wish to retain the old style dizzy..Apparently the new ones foul on the engine via the ignition amp so timing can be restricted..Which i guess is a nightmare as the timing marks are already out anyway...Im...
so need a simple solution....mrzigazaga said:
I was speaking to a friend earlier with a Wedge who has just fitted a new type distributor and he said the same thing...He has rebuilt the old dizzy but has had to use a pick up with the new amp connection so said if doing this make sure the connections from the dizzy to the amp are right way round...He hasn't fitted to test yet as a slight mod is needed to the amp but hopefully if it works could be a good mod for those who wish to retain the old style dizzy..Apparently the new ones foul on the engine via the ignition amp so timing can be restricted..Which i guess is a nightmare as the timing marks are already out anyway...Im... so need a simple solution....
On the rebuilt dissy with new amp I carefully checked the previous wiring (which worked) and put the connections back the same way. As it didn't work I did then try them the other way around but made no difference. The new ignition amp was off flea so who knows if it was a decent one or not. I've not messed with the coil or anything apart from the dissy swap. This evening I've checked the injectors and they are firing nicely. For the first time the car did try to fire and then spluttered to a halt. I'm just wondering if it was totally flooded after too many attempts to start it? so need a simple solution....I've pulled all the plugs out, which were stinking of fuel. I'll leave it until tomorrow night and then try again to see if that was it? Re the Powerspark dissy - yes it's bloody useless for timing - a few degrees clockwise and the vacuum advance fouls and a few degrees the other way and the ignition amp fouls. I'm going to buy a decent quality amp and try again on the rebuilt original distributor.
Personally i think a remote mounting for the amp is needed...Be good to put it somewhere out of the way of heat..With the new dizzy apparently the remote amp still needs a dummy which will still interfere so my friend is modifying the old dizzy which if works should be a relatively cheap upgrade and will move the amp out to the wing...He is just a bit busy so doesn't have loads of spare time..
Yes Keith new parts can fail...Hopefully you will get it sorted...If not i know where there is a lovely immaculate very low mileage SEAC for sale..Its gorgeous..You could sort and sell your current collection and it would only cost you around 12K....Suits you sir....
Yes Keith new parts can fail...Hopefully you will get it sorted...If not i know where there is a lovely immaculate very low mileage SEAC for sale..Its gorgeous..You could sort and sell your current collection and it would only cost you around 12K....Suits you sir....
mrzigazaga said:
If not i know where there is a lovely immaculate very low mileage SEAC for sale..Its gorgeous..You could sort and sell your current collection and it would only cost you around 12K....Suits you sir....
Which one is that then? I know Wild Rover is up for sale but the price is a bit steep to say the least, and I don't like the colour. Mr Tanks SEAC has been withdrawn so is not on the market at the moment. I'm sure it's something simple on the 350i.Re the 390SE that went straight to my mates garage - he races a 3.9 highly tuned V8 landrover plus he's a great mechanical and auto-electrician. I've left the car with him as a "filler in" job so whenever he has a spare hour or two he is working through my checklist. First checks are mechanical - compression, valve clearances, push rod condition etc, then he's moving on to the electrics and ignition system. I've already given him a spare reconditioned Efi flapper loom so that should rule out a wiring gremlin. I've given him a month overall to do all the checks. If all checks are clear then its a rebuilt AFM and ECU from Mark Adams - he lives literally up the road so I've already had a good chat with him. If its not wiring then he suspects the AFM/ECU combination. He can rebuild both then set the lot up on the rolling road, as Glen had done on the 420SE the other year. Cheers.
Jack Valiant said:
Interesting ... I have had 3 fail over the time I have had EFi cars all with blown diodes in the pack ... but hey ho!
Seems odd, there shouldn't be enough current flowing to overload them and reverse-biasing them would be difficult (you'd have to put the battery in backwards and try cranking, for a start). Maybe you had relays that took loads of coil current. My top cause for a fail would be someone plugging the red module into another relay socket than the one intended, that might cause some interesting smoke to escape.KKson said:
Which one is that then? I know Wild Rover is up for sale but the price is a bit steep to say the least, and I don't like the colour.
Yep...Didn't think it was steep for a 24,000 mile SEAC with a very impressive stat sheet...I don't like the colour either but nevertheless its a stunner...Would be nice to see the 390SE at next years BBWF...KKson said:
1. I'm assuming that if the strobe picking up the signal from No 1 HT lead does flash at TDC then timing should be okay? I was careful to ensure that the dissy went back in the same position as I took it out but could I be out by 180 degrees? That could account for it? I suppose I could try moving the HT leads around by 180 degrees?
Keith, must be really frustrating, I couldn't get mine going initially after dizzy swap and it turned out the old imobilizer had been fried somehow, so in the end a friend help be strip it out and got rid of it completely. No problems after that.
There seem to be some differences re the room to turn the dizzy, as I had not alot but plently enough to time it.
Re being 180 out, just make sure number one is top of compression stroke. I removed spark plug number 1, stick a long pencil in the hole and rotate until it rises to the top, just before it drops. If its right the rotar should be pointing roughly at number one on the dizzy.
Also re possible flooding, disconnect the cold start injector on the plenum.
Good luck.
Keith, must be really frustrating, I couldn't get mine going initially after dizzy swap and it turned out the old imobilizer had been fried somehow, so in the end a friend help be strip it out and got rid of it completely. No problems after that.
There seem to be some differences re the room to turn the dizzy, as I had not alot but plently enough to time it.
Re being 180 out, just make sure number one is top of compression stroke. I removed spark plug number 1, stick a long pencil in the hole and rotate until it rises to the top, just before it drops. If its right the rotar should be pointing roughly at number one on the dizzy.
Also re possible flooding, disconnect the cold start injector on the plenum.
Good luck.
Right, making some headway. Got the old rebuilt dissy connected up to coil, but not bolted into the engine so I could spin the geared end. Located the king lead in a suitable spot to view any sign of life, spun it up and nothing so new ignition amp is indeed dead. I tried the same on the original amp and that is also dead. Took the new ignition amp off the Powerspark unit and tried with the old dissy and great massive spark, so I now have the old rebuilt dissy apparently working. Double checked TDC against top of compression stroke and that is now all set and the TDC mark does actually align with the timing pointer.
Thursday night I'll put the old dissy back in, make sure it is all aligned and then fingers crossed it works. At least I know NOT to buy £11 amps of flea!
Very much like the idea of the remote amp. I think all my recent woes are due to a cooked amp following my enthusiasm and somewhat high under bonnet temperature at Millbrook. Presumably it's just a matter of extending the magnetic contact cables to a suitable position so the amp is away from the engine and then connecting to the coil cables. Is there a limit to the distance - i.e. if the magnetic pickup cables are too long will the voltage drop affect performance?
Feeling a bit more bloody positive tonight!
Thursday night I'll put the old dissy back in, make sure it is all aligned and then fingers crossed it works. At least I know NOT to buy £11 amps of flea!
Very much like the idea of the remote amp. I think all my recent woes are due to a cooked amp following my enthusiasm and somewhat high under bonnet temperature at Millbrook. Presumably it's just a matter of extending the magnetic contact cables to a suitable position so the amp is away from the engine and then connecting to the coil cables. Is there a limit to the distance - i.e. if the magnetic pickup cables are too long will the voltage drop affect performance?
Feeling a bit more bloody positive tonight!
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