Random 350i questions
Discussion
Afternoon, gentlemen.
After buying a shed in the shape of 350i (see http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a... and http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/post.asp?h=0&am... ), some questions inbound:
A) Where's the ground wire from coil mounting bracket supposed to be connected to? Alternator mounting bolts?
B) How does one get the not-quite-screws that fix the boot bottom carpets off? I cannot figure out if they come off with brute force or if they really are screws. They're... a bit gone. I want to get the carpets out to dry and demustify them.
C) Is the bonnet really hinged on just few bolts, and is it that easy to get it off? Rewiring the distro-coil connection would be much easier if the bonnet can be taken off as easily as it appears. Also, re-gluing the insulation to the bonnet'd be easier if the bonnet'd be flipped and somewhere safe.
S. Heath's wedge maint manual is on its way, but is there a decent wiring diagram anywhere for 1989 350i? The electrics are... interesting and I need to sort them out. I did see few topics with images, but the ones I found didn't have all the details (namely, to what do the various numbered thingies correspond to).
Also - is there a source for the properly color coded wires? I'd like to use correct colors and replace the generic wires somebody has used in revamping the electrics the last time. Dunno which colors I will eventually need, but a link to some place that sells those would be fab.
After buying a shed in the shape of 350i (see http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a... and http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/post.asp?h=0&am... ), some questions inbound:
A) Where's the ground wire from coil mounting bracket supposed to be connected to? Alternator mounting bolts?
B) How does one get the not-quite-screws that fix the boot bottom carpets off? I cannot figure out if they come off with brute force or if they really are screws. They're... a bit gone. I want to get the carpets out to dry and demustify them.
C) Is the bonnet really hinged on just few bolts, and is it that easy to get it off? Rewiring the distro-coil connection would be much easier if the bonnet can be taken off as easily as it appears. Also, re-gluing the insulation to the bonnet'd be easier if the bonnet'd be flipped and somewhere safe.
S. Heath's wedge maint manual is on its way, but is there a decent wiring diagram anywhere for 1989 350i? The electrics are... interesting and I need to sort them out. I did see few topics with images, but the ones I found didn't have all the details (namely, to what do the various numbered thingies correspond to).
Also - is there a source for the properly color coded wires? I'd like to use correct colors and replace the generic wires somebody has used in revamping the electrics the last time. Dunno which colors I will eventually need, but a link to some place that sells those would be fab.
Hi...Yes the earth goes from the coil bracket to the alternator bolts..
The bonnet has two bolts either side and they each have a plastic/Fibre washer between the bonnet and body gap which you want to catch, Measure the gap at each side of the bonnet where it lays next to the body..(.)(.) ..Disconnect the struts from the bonnet...Place a large towel or some clean rags in the space at the front of the bonnet/Body to rest the front edge of the bonnet in once you remove one of the side bolts..Rest the edge gently in there and hold the bonnet up with one hand and undo the other bolt...It can be done by one person but two are better...Especially if you are not physical enough...Fitting is reversal...Just be careful pushing down on the gas struts to refit...Please then refer to the gap measurements as the bolts do adjust the left to right seat of the bonnet..Do this while tightening them down..They don't need to be massively over tighten...However they might need checking now and again....
You might think that a bonnet that opens away from you is okay as it would never come up on a motorway...
WRONG!
Its scary as hell when your bonnet comes up at 70mph...It was literally floating mid screen...i could see the engine...Im also really lucky that it never took off....
The carpet in the boot might have the bolts for the rear exhaust mountings going through it..I think it is generally just glued down?....
As for the wiring...You might be able to buy similar coloured wire from most auto suppliers...However if they are colour coded to the loom then it might of only come from Land Rover...Discovery 1...Although i think some had the SD1 looms?...
The bonnet insulation is best glued back with a high temp adhesive...The proper stuff is AF178 which is applicator only but you can buy other glues the may work....Hope this helps...
Cheers
Ziga
The bonnet has two bolts either side and they each have a plastic/Fibre washer between the bonnet and body gap which you want to catch, Measure the gap at each side of the bonnet where it lays next to the body..(.)(.) ..Disconnect the struts from the bonnet...Place a large towel or some clean rags in the space at the front of the bonnet/Body to rest the front edge of the bonnet in once you remove one of the side bolts..Rest the edge gently in there and hold the bonnet up with one hand and undo the other bolt...It can be done by one person but two are better...Especially if you are not physical enough...Fitting is reversal...Just be careful pushing down on the gas struts to refit...Please then refer to the gap measurements as the bolts do adjust the left to right seat of the bonnet..Do this while tightening them down..They don't need to be massively over tighten...However they might need checking now and again....
You might think that a bonnet that opens away from you is okay as it would never come up on a motorway...
WRONG!Its scary as hell when your bonnet comes up at 70mph...It was literally floating mid screen...i could see the engine...Im also really lucky that it never took off....
The carpet in the boot might have the bolts for the rear exhaust mountings going through it..I think it is generally just glued down?....
As for the wiring...You might be able to buy similar coloured wire from most auto suppliers...However if they are colour coded to the loom then it might of only come from Land Rover...Discovery 1...Although i think some had the SD1 looms?...
The bonnet insulation is best glued back with a high temp adhesive...The proper stuff is AF178 which is applicator only but you can buy other glues the may work....Hope this helps...
Cheers
Ziga
Thanks! The picture was worth many words, as expected. I wonder if the dodgy ignition could be linked also to the non-existant ground at coil.
No fibre washers anymore at my bonnet hinges, plain bolt with threads visible.
Will have to find suitable washers from somewhere.
The carpet screws are too small to bolt anything, I'd think, they're just keeping the carpet down. Will have to use force and see what happens.
No fibre washers anymore at my bonnet hinges, plain bolt with threads visible.
Will have to find suitable washers from somewhere.
The carpet screws are too small to bolt anything, I'd think, they're just keeping the carpet down. Will have to use force and see what happens.
A) Where's the ground wire from coil mounting bracket supposed to be connected to? Alternator mounting bolts?
Yes mine does to the alternator from the coil bracket. I found the thin braid a bit flimsy so I put some thicker stuff in. Also whjile you're here clean the inside of the bracket and coil outer of any corrosion which can spoil the connection a little.
B) How does one get the not-quite-screws that fix the boot bottom carpets off? I cannot figure out if they come off with brute force or if they really are screws. They're... a bit gone. I want to get the carpets out to dry and demustify them.
If you mean the pair in the middle under the carpet they hold the body on ;^)
C) Is the bonnet really hinged on just few bolts, and is it that easy to get it off? Rewiring the distro-coil connection would be much easier if the bonnet can be taken off as easily as it appears. Also, re-gluing the insulation to the bonnet'd be easier if the bonnet'd be flipped and somewhere safe.
There's plenty of room to work on the alternator and coil under the bonnet if they are in the usual place. Has the coil been moved? But yes there's a thread about these bonnet bolts, take a look at the FAQ articles for this and ways to prevent them undoing. As for gluing I leave it on and let the bonnet press onto a lump of wood on top of the engine overnight, that sticks the glue quite well.
Yes mine does to the alternator from the coil bracket. I found the thin braid a bit flimsy so I put some thicker stuff in. Also whjile you're here clean the inside of the bracket and coil outer of any corrosion which can spoil the connection a little.
B) How does one get the not-quite-screws that fix the boot bottom carpets off? I cannot figure out if they come off with brute force or if they really are screws. They're... a bit gone. I want to get the carpets out to dry and demustify them.
If you mean the pair in the middle under the carpet they hold the body on ;^)
C) Is the bonnet really hinged on just few bolts, and is it that easy to get it off? Rewiring the distro-coil connection would be much easier if the bonnet can be taken off as easily as it appears. Also, re-gluing the insulation to the bonnet'd be easier if the bonnet'd be flipped and somewhere safe.
There's plenty of room to work on the alternator and coil under the bonnet if they are in the usual place. Has the coil been moved? But yes there's a thread about these bonnet bolts, take a look at the FAQ articles for this and ways to prevent them undoing. As for gluing I leave it on and let the bonnet press onto a lump of wood on top of the engine overnight, that sticks the glue quite well.
Those screws could be just that....Check all the earths...There is a main one near the N/S rocker cover...It might be worth unbolting and cleaning up..Check the earth strap on the battery..Also if the plugs leads are a different colour to the king lead then the king lead could be at fault...More often the plugs sets are for a Range Rover which has the coil on the plenum..(Hotwire also) so the king lead is never long enough...If the set is old the buy a good quality set but ask for an extra long king lead...A metre should do...
Also wipe out the distributor cap with some electrical cleaner and a clean cloth...If the ignition amp is failing it will just fail..Intermittent issues are more attributed to dodgy connections and bad earths...
As always though there is the help that you need on here...
Also wipe out the distributor cap with some electrical cleaner and a clean cloth...If the ignition amp is failing it will just fail..Intermittent issues are more attributed to dodgy connections and bad earths...
As always though there is the help that you need on here...
Symptoms were car dying suddenly when it got hot. Bonnet open, 30mins of chitchat, and it'd run for 5min again. Then dies. Another 30min of open bonnet and few more mins of driving.
I'd say it was not fuel related (too sudden for that) but didn't have that much time, willingness or tools to debug it on the Tesco parking lot.
The ignition module was hot as hell after it died.
The coil bracket ground wire was disconnected - well it was lying on top of the brake lines so it... kind of was grounded. Some of the time.
Bought the lucas kit for moving the amp to coil bracket just because (it also does the translation into 3 pin module at the same time), also bought a new coil. Semiconductors stop working somewhere around 130C or so (depending on the semiconductor). If the ignition module is using the distro as the heat sink, it does not have much margin - distro is going to be pretty hot (90C-ish) as engine heats up. So moving the module seemed to be A Good Idea.
Trying to figure out wth the previous owner has done to the wiring, could also be the Foxguard alarm installation which has caused extra wiring. Going to figure out how to get rid of that thing.
Is the white-black (white with black stripe) wire from the 2 pin ignition module that goes via one original-looking connector to a loom near the efi resistor box the connection to ECU? That seems original and not messed about.
On the coil side... It's far more interesting looking nest of wires. The rev counter should be getting white-yellow wire from the ign module via coil (according to the schematic I have), but that white-yellow wire is cut and connected to tangle of black wires.
Is the wiring supposed to be white-yellow wire from ign module via coil to a loom on the driver side on its way to rev counter?
I'd say it was not fuel related (too sudden for that) but didn't have that much time, willingness or tools to debug it on the Tesco parking lot.
The ignition module was hot as hell after it died.
The coil bracket ground wire was disconnected - well it was lying on top of the brake lines so it... kind of was grounded. Some of the time.
Bought the lucas kit for moving the amp to coil bracket just because (it also does the translation into 3 pin module at the same time), also bought a new coil. Semiconductors stop working somewhere around 130C or so (depending on the semiconductor). If the ignition module is using the distro as the heat sink, it does not have much margin - distro is going to be pretty hot (90C-ish) as engine heats up. So moving the module seemed to be A Good Idea.
Trying to figure out wth the previous owner has done to the wiring, could also be the Foxguard alarm installation which has caused extra wiring. Going to figure out how to get rid of that thing.
Is the white-black (white with black stripe) wire from the 2 pin ignition module that goes via one original-looking connector to a loom near the efi resistor box the connection to ECU? That seems original and not messed about.
On the coil side... It's far more interesting looking nest of wires. The rev counter should be getting white-yellow wire from the ign module via coil (according to the schematic I have), but that white-yellow wire is cut and connected to tangle of black wires.
Is the wiring supposed to be white-yellow wire from ign module via coil to a loom on the driver side on its way to rev counter?
hrepo said:
Is the white-black (white with black stripe) wire from the 2 pin ignition module that goes via one original-looking connector to a loom near the efi resistor box the connection to ECU?
I believe that is the ECU/injectors feed...Not sure about the yellow/White though....Sounds like the alarm could be causing issues but a hot stall....Something breaking down like a coil or plug lead...Fractured wire...Im pretty sure that the ignition amp will just fail and not be intermittent...What's supposed to be the mechanism in which the horn contact rings in Momo steering wheel/hub connect to the wiring loom? Previous owner has bolted industrial grade push button to the steering column to act as the horn, he clearly couldn't make the contact rings to work.
There must be a correct way to use them in the Ford column I seem to have?
The ignition switch seems to be a Ford Sierra part. I think I can salvage the short loom (15cm) from ign switch to the first connector, but the loom from there onwards is quite far gone. Is that a standard Ford part also, or custom TVR loom? Any ideas where to obtain intact one?
There must be a correct way to use them in the Ford column I seem to have?
The ignition switch seems to be a Ford Sierra part. I think I can salvage the short loom (15cm) from ign switch to the first connector, but the loom from there onwards is quite far gone. Is that a standard Ford part also, or custom TVR loom? Any ideas where to obtain intact one?
Was hoping there'd be some way to utilize the contact tracks at the wheel. Oh well.
After removing few pounds of wires and 2 alarms from the car, it's about time to start trying to piece the original loom together. From which loom does the coil get the ignition wire originally?
Also - answer to my earlier question: Yes. rev counter does get white-yellow wire. Not yet traced where it's originally coming from but noticed it when I removed the dash.
Kudos to TVR BTW - it was ridiculously easy to take the whole dash off, even without any instructions. 2 bolts, speedo cable and 2 looms with convenient connectors. 5min job, most of the time was spent trying to get wrench to hold the mounting bolt nuts.
Now if only the center pod with the useless radio would agree to come off, then all would be well...
After removing few pounds of wires and 2 alarms from the car, it's about time to start trying to piece the original loom together. From which loom does the coil get the ignition wire originally?
Also - answer to my earlier question: Yes. rev counter does get white-yellow wire. Not yet traced where it's originally coming from but noticed it when I removed the dash.
Kudos to TVR BTW - it was ridiculously easy to take the whole dash off, even without any instructions. 2 bolts, speedo cable and 2 looms with convenient connectors. 5min job, most of the time was spent trying to get wrench to hold the mounting bolt nuts.
Now if only the center pod with the useless radio would agree to come off, then all would be well...
Back to questions:
I seem to have 2 conflicting wiring diagrams for 350i.
The wedge bible has this:
And the topic linked in the FAQ has the abovementioned, and also this:
The bible schema makes much more sense to me.
But the remaining wiring in the car (tore out 2 alarms and plenty of black spaghetti) matches the latter one. Tacho has the exact colors mentioned (White-Yellow, White-Yellow (Red) and ground) and what remains of the wiring in the engine bay seems more like it matches the latter one.
But why would the distro and the coil get their feed from a tacho? That makes no sense to me. How would the tacho work in the first place if the feed just goes through it? Does it sense current?
Would there be any kindhearted late model 350i owners that could check how the wiring really works, or does somebody know offhand what the deal is?
All help graciously accepted.
EDIT:
Adding edited version from the FAQ pages. I used this when I redrew the version above:
I seem to have 2 conflicting wiring diagrams for 350i.
The wedge bible has this:
And the topic linked in the FAQ has the abovementioned, and also this:
The bible schema makes much more sense to me.
But the remaining wiring in the car (tore out 2 alarms and plenty of black spaghetti) matches the latter one. Tacho has the exact colors mentioned (White-Yellow, White-Yellow (Red) and ground) and what remains of the wiring in the engine bay seems more like it matches the latter one.
But why would the distro and the coil get their feed from a tacho? That makes no sense to me. How would the tacho work in the first place if the feed just goes through it? Does it sense current?
Would there be any kindhearted late model 350i owners that could check how the wiring really works, or does somebody know offhand what the deal is?
All help graciously accepted.
EDIT:
Adding edited version from the FAQ pages. I used this when I redrew the version above:
Edited by hrepo on Saturday 9th April 15:57
All has not been hopeless so far though.
From the initial "oh whyyyyy" of this:
I've gone to slightly more palatable
And the main ign loom that looked like this (with 2 separate alarms)
has been pared down to this
and, weather permitting, I'll solder the wires back together later today.
Now, if only I knew how the iginition wiring should finally be I could get the new coil and the new 3 terminal ignition module installed also.
Then it'd be time for a test drive to see if the 15min running time has extended itself to something more usable...
From the initial "oh whyyyyy" of this:
I've gone to slightly more palatable
And the main ign loom that looked like this (with 2 separate alarms)
has been pared down to this
and, weather permitting, I'll solder the wires back together later today.
Now, if only I knew how the iginition wiring should finally be I could get the new coil and the new 3 terminal ignition module installed also.
Then it'd be time for a test drive to see if the 15min running time has extended itself to something more usable...
Ha. Batsignal activated!
Paging Mr B@man...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
So it seems like it really is current sensing. Unless the man from the Gotham tells me I have misunderstood?
Makes this a whole lot easier then, now the schematic makes sense.
Paging Mr B@man...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
So it seems like it really is current sensing. Unless the man from the Gotham tells me I have misunderstood?
Makes this a whole lot easier then, now the schematic makes sense.
mrzigazaga said:
... Hopefully you will sort it out and start to enjoy it..,..
Naah, I've enjoyed every second so far - including the 6 hours or so I spent stranded on the Tesco parking lot. Tinkering is half the fun anyway. I've gotten used to better workshop manuals though. I'll just place my faith to the people (=forums) now, since printed info is a bit scarce.
hrepo said:
Naah, I've enjoyed every second so far - including the 6 hours or so I spent stranded on the Tesco parking lot.
Tinkering is half the fun anyway. I've gotten used to better workshop manuals though. I'll just place my faith to the people (=forums) now, since printed info is a bit scarce.
Thats good to hear...Tinkering is half the fun anyway. I've gotten used to better workshop manuals though. I'll just place my faith to the people (=forums) now, since printed info is a bit scarce.
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