edelbrock or other
Discussion
Solitude said:
Fedders,
anyone done a conversion to webber, edelbrock, holley or other ?
cost, benefits, ease etc etc ?
Big Gav
I did - Edelbrock is a good conversion using an Offenhauser Dual Plane inlet manifold. Holley carbs appears be more troublesome to keep in tune. Benefits are straight forward. Instant throttle response, easy to maintain, great mid-range etc. If your car develops a starting issue - diagnosis is easy. anyone done a conversion to webber, edelbrock, holley or other ?
cost, benefits, ease etc etc ?
Big Gav
Things to consider. Setting up correct primary and secondary jets and metering rods & mechanical fuel pump. The Edelbrock is set up for bigger engines so essentially you will be tuning the carb to suit a less powerful unit such as the RV8 unless you go for a 4.6 which is what I want to do next year....My car is a bit lumpy when cold but never fails to start and once warm and sounds and performs really well. I'm happy with the switch, diehard purists won't be but then again having carbs means I don't have to worry about Efi running problems and perhaps expensive fault diagosis bills if there is a problem. Then again Efi does have some advantages in that you can fine tune/programme what your engine can do etc....
Gavin,
I learned a little about carbs for my boat. I wonder if they apply to cars!
My boat was equipped with 4 barrel Rochesters. No matter how we tuned them they never worked well. The tuner I used had an old V-8 parked outside his workshop and tested carbs on that. He said the only important thing is the air/fuel ratio, and of course sufficient cubic feet per minute. The fact that I have small 4cylinder engines and he set it up for a V-8 was irrelevant. He said they were too badly worn and I should consider new.
After some research I bought 4 barrel Edelbrocks. The online reviews said that they work straight out of the box, with no adjustment needed, no matter what engine they were to be used on. They were also a better price. However they warned that they are more thirsty than Rochesters. They certainly worked "straight out of the box", but I never compared fuel consumption.
Now I have written this. I'm not sure how it will help you!
Wilf.
I learned a little about carbs for my boat. I wonder if they apply to cars!
My boat was equipped with 4 barrel Rochesters. No matter how we tuned them they never worked well. The tuner I used had an old V-8 parked outside his workshop and tested carbs on that. He said the only important thing is the air/fuel ratio, and of course sufficient cubic feet per minute. The fact that I have small 4cylinder engines and he set it up for a V-8 was irrelevant. He said they were too badly worn and I should consider new.
After some research I bought 4 barrel Edelbrocks. The online reviews said that they work straight out of the box, with no adjustment needed, no matter what engine they were to be used on. They were also a better price. However they warned that they are more thirsty than Rochesters. They certainly worked "straight out of the box", but I never compared fuel consumption.
Now I have written this. I'm not sure how it will help you!
Wilf.
Get your EFI working properly - it'll knock any carburettor, short of quad twin chokes, out of the water.
It cost me about £100 to get my EFI fixed and working properly.
To answer the original question though - 390 Holley is a good mach for the Rover V8.
I still maintain the Edelbrock 500 is too large for a Rover V8, unless it's a very high revving engine or particularly large capacity.
Edelbrock: Pro's - adjustments can be made by just removing the carb top cover.
Con's - mechanical secondaries mean pay off in economy
Holley: Pro's - Nicely sized for the RV8, vacuum secondaries allow a modicum of economy
Con's - More fiddly to setup - metering blocks need removing to adjust jet size.
EFI: Better tractability, economy and power - spend the time to get it working properly.
It cost me about £100 to get my EFI fixed and working properly.
To answer the original question though - 390 Holley is a good mach for the Rover V8.
I still maintain the Edelbrock 500 is too large for a Rover V8, unless it's a very high revving engine or particularly large capacity.
Edelbrock: Pro's - adjustments can be made by just removing the carb top cover.
Con's - mechanical secondaries mean pay off in economy
Holley: Pro's - Nicely sized for the RV8, vacuum secondaries allow a modicum of economy
Con's - More fiddly to setup - metering blocks need removing to adjust jet size.
EFI: Better tractability, economy and power - spend the time to get it working properly.
voltage_maxx said:
Get your EFI working properly - it'll knock any carburettor, short of quad twin chokes, out of the water.
It cost me about £100 to get my EFI fixed and working properly.
To answer the original question though - 390 Holley is a good mach for the Rover V8.
I still maintain the Edelbrock 500 is too large for a Rover V8, unless it's a very high revving engine or particularly large capacity.
Edelbrock: Pro's - adjustments can be made by just removing the carb top cover.
Con's - mechanical secondaries mean pay off in economy
Holley: Pro's - Nicely sized for the RV8, vacuum secondaries allow a modicum of economy
Con's - More fiddly to setup - metering blocks need removing to adjust jet size.
EFI: Better tractability, economy and power - spend the time to get it working properly.
Thank you all for your replies.It cost me about £100 to get my EFI fixed and working properly.
To answer the original question though - 390 Holley is a good mach for the Rover V8.
I still maintain the Edelbrock 500 is too large for a Rover V8, unless it's a very high revving engine or particularly large capacity.
Edelbrock: Pro's - adjustments can be made by just removing the carb top cover.
Con's - mechanical secondaries mean pay off in economy
Holley: Pro's - Nicely sized for the RV8, vacuum secondaries allow a modicum of economy
Con's - More fiddly to setup - metering blocks need removing to adjust jet size.
EFI: Better tractability, economy and power - spend the time to get it working properly.
Bob, did you do it all yourself ?
I'm a huge EFI fan Gav, I map my Canems dual fuel engine management system myself and run my TVR on precisely injected farts.
But as I said when you popped over the other day... "in your situation you are better off with a carb"
Fitting a carb eliminates a huge amount of Sherlock Homes work in a stroke, the old Lucas CU flapper system can be made to work acceptably but how much time and money are you going to invest in it before you admit the short cut offered by the carb is the smart way forward?
Buy the carb and manifold from Summit Racing using their pre-paid import duty I-Parcel system and you'll have it in a week. A mornings work on your drive and it'll fire right up, then to the pub Batman. Return on Sunday and with a bit of tuning it'll purr like a kitten... a thirsty V8 kitten but a kitten all the same.
Dave
But as I said when you popped over the other day... "in your situation you are better off with a carb"
Fitting a carb eliminates a huge amount of Sherlock Homes work in a stroke, the old Lucas CU flapper system can be made to work acceptably but how much time and money are you going to invest in it before you admit the short cut offered by the carb is the smart way forward?
Buy the carb and manifold from Summit Racing using their pre-paid import duty I-Parcel system and you'll have it in a week. A mornings work on your drive and it'll fire right up, then to the pub Batman. Return on Sunday and with a bit of tuning it'll purr like a kitten... a thirsty V8 kitten but a kitten all the same.
Dave
I was planning to do a carb conversion on my V8S when I had the engine rebuilt some years, but was talked out of it. Shortly after the car went back on the road engine developed a mysterious fault which cost £600 to diagnose. It was a 50p injector 'O' ring! The carb conversion would have cost £500 all in. Since then I've had several little niggles which, thankfully, I learned to diagnose and resolve myself using the "Rovergauge" kit and software. Yes, getting fuel injection set up and running correctly gives you a very sweet and tractable engine (I can pull cleanly in 5th from below 2000rpm) but when it does play up, it costs. The cost is usually the diagnosis time rather than the faulty part.
I have an inlet manifold, twin choke carb and fuel pressure regulator sitting in a cupboard ready for the day when the old Bosh system on the 280i starts playing up. It won't be getting any second chances. So the carb may use a bit more fuel but the Tasmin is not my daily driver (which does 60mpg on a run
) so I don't care 
and if the carb does play up I'll get out the screwdriver and my old Colortune.
I have an inlet manifold, twin choke carb and fuel pressure regulator sitting in a cupboard ready for the day when the old Bosh system on the 280i starts playing up. It won't be getting any second chances. So the carb may use a bit more fuel but the Tasmin is not my daily driver (which does 60mpg on a run
) so I don't care and if the carb does play up I'll get out the screwdriver and my old Colortune.
A 390 cfm Holley 4160 would give you a nice drivable 350 Wedge Gav, adjustable float carbs like this are easier to tune as the metering plate has no jets, power valves, or accelerator pumps.
The Holley 4160 features vacuum secondaries too, choosing the smaller 390 cfm model will be best suited to your 3.5 litre Rover V8 and will deliver better drivability, economy and ease of tuning than one of the bigger and more performance orientated carbs.
That's not to say the Holley 4160 won't give you great performance, don't underestimate how important is to have a nice drivable car, try to avoid the temptation to go too big when selecting your carb. Your engine is just a 3.5 litre air pump and the carb needs to be matched to it properly, while a carb can be an effective reliable solution to problematic early injection systems you must accept you are going back in time. We've all become so familiar with the benefits of EFI on our every day cars we've mostly forgotten the character quirks introduced when running a carb. With a carb you're always working at a disadvantage compared with a properly functioning EFI system, this is why it's so important to choose the right carb.
The more modest 390 cfm Holley 4160 will easily be your best bet, once properly set up the car will start and drive nicely, fall into the age old trap of becoming seduced by a big old 500 cfm carb in the misguided belief it'll get more performance from it and you'll be forever tuning the thing trying get the engine to run nice, the truth is the 500 cfm carb is designed to work on big capacity Yank V8s not a little 3.5 litre so will never work as well on your 3.5 as the smaller and far better matched 390 cfm Holley 4160.
https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/hly-0-8007/...
The 390 cfm Holley 4160 is £487.00 delivered to your door from Summit Racing including all taxes, add to this the inlet manifold, a gasket set and a few other sundries and you need to accept the carb transplant project could easily eat up £800 to do the job properly using all new parts, Brexit hasn't helped you here.
Another option would be to put a wanted add on the Rods & Sods website or to keep an eye on EBay where you may be lucky and find everything you need for around £400 ish, but be careful you don't buy a worn out carb, by the time you've rebuilt it you'll probably end up wishing you'd just bought a brand new carb.
Personally I'd say your best option would be to get your brother in the States to help you put a kit of parts together, then bring it all home in a suitcase following your next visit
Have a listen to how sweetly this 3.5 litre Rover V8 runs on the 390 cfm Holley 4160 carb.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_et5U8Q-2I
The Holley 4160 features vacuum secondaries too, choosing the smaller 390 cfm model will be best suited to your 3.5 litre Rover V8 and will deliver better drivability, economy and ease of tuning than one of the bigger and more performance orientated carbs.
That's not to say the Holley 4160 won't give you great performance, don't underestimate how important is to have a nice drivable car, try to avoid the temptation to go too big when selecting your carb. Your engine is just a 3.5 litre air pump and the carb needs to be matched to it properly, while a carb can be an effective reliable solution to problematic early injection systems you must accept you are going back in time. We've all become so familiar with the benefits of EFI on our every day cars we've mostly forgotten the character quirks introduced when running a carb. With a carb you're always working at a disadvantage compared with a properly functioning EFI system, this is why it's so important to choose the right carb.
The more modest 390 cfm Holley 4160 will easily be your best bet, once properly set up the car will start and drive nicely, fall into the age old trap of becoming seduced by a big old 500 cfm carb in the misguided belief it'll get more performance from it and you'll be forever tuning the thing trying get the engine to run nice, the truth is the 500 cfm carb is designed to work on big capacity Yank V8s not a little 3.5 litre so will never work as well on your 3.5 as the smaller and far better matched 390 cfm Holley 4160.
https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/hly-0-8007/...
The 390 cfm Holley 4160 is £487.00 delivered to your door from Summit Racing including all taxes, add to this the inlet manifold, a gasket set and a few other sundries and you need to accept the carb transplant project could easily eat up £800 to do the job properly using all new parts, Brexit hasn't helped you here.
Another option would be to put a wanted add on the Rods & Sods website or to keep an eye on EBay where you may be lucky and find everything you need for around £400 ish, but be careful you don't buy a worn out carb, by the time you've rebuilt it you'll probably end up wishing you'd just bought a brand new carb.
Personally I'd say your best option would be to get your brother in the States to help you put a kit of parts together, then bring it all home in a suitcase following your next visit
Have a listen to how sweetly this 3.5 litre Rover V8 runs on the 390 cfm Holley 4160 carb.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_et5U8Q-2I
v8s4me said:
I was planning to do a carb conversion on my V8S when I had the engine rebuilt some years, but was talked out of it. Shortly after the car went back on the road engine developed a mysterious fault which cost £600 to diagnose. It was a 50p injector 'O' ring! The carb conversion would have cost £500 all in. Since then I've had several little niggles which, thankfully, I learned to diagnose and resolve myself using the "Rovergauge" kit and software. Yes, getting fuel injection set up and running correctly gives you a very sweet and tractable engine (I can pull cleanly in 5th from below 2000rpm) but when it does play up, it costs. The cost is usually the diagnosis time rather than the faulty part.
I have an inlet manifold, twin choke carb and fuel pressure regulator sitting in a cupboard ready for the day when the old Bosh system on the 280i starts playing up. It won't be getting any second chances. So the carb may use a bit more fuel but the Tasmin is not my daily driver (which does 60mpg on a run) so I don't care and if the carb does play up I'll get out the screwdriver and my old Colortune.
Had the same dilemma - can tell you that when the efi starts misbehaving you won't regret the changover for all the right reasons...I have an inlet manifold, twin choke carb and fuel pressure regulator sitting in a cupboard ready for the day when the old Bosh system on the 280i starts playing up. It won't be getting any second chances. So the carb may use a bit more fuel but the Tasmin is not my daily driver (which does 60mpg on a run
) so I don't care and if the carb does play up I'll get out the screwdriver and my old Colortune.Solitude said:
voltage_maxx said:
Get your EFI working properly - it'll knock any carburettor, short of quad twin chokes, out of the water.
It cost me about £100 to get my EFI fixed and working properly.
To answer the original question though - 390 Holley is a good mach for the Rover V8.
I still maintain the Edelbrock 500 is too large for a Rover V8, unless it's a very high revving engine or particularly large capacity.
Edelbrock: Pro's - adjustments can be made by just removing the carb top cover.
Con's - mechanical secondaries mean pay off in economy
Holley: Pro's - Nicely sized for the RV8, vacuum secondaries allow a modicum of economy
Con's - More fiddly to setup - metering blocks need removing to adjust jet size.
EFI: Better tractability, economy and power - spend the time to get it working properly.
Thank you all for your replies.It cost me about £100 to get my EFI fixed and working properly.
To answer the original question though - 390 Holley is a good mach for the Rover V8.
I still maintain the Edelbrock 500 is too large for a Rover V8, unless it's a very high revving engine or particularly large capacity.
Edelbrock: Pro's - adjustments can be made by just removing the carb top cover.
Con's - mechanical secondaries mean pay off in economy
Holley: Pro's - Nicely sized for the RV8, vacuum secondaries allow a modicum of economy
Con's - More fiddly to setup - metering blocks need removing to adjust jet size.
EFI: Better tractability, economy and power - spend the time to get it working properly.
Bob, did you do it all yourself ?
Having the factory 4CU documentation is vital - you'll find it in the workshop manual for the classic Range Rover.
Resoldered the dry joints on the ECU, then worked through the test procedures methodically with a multimeter.
They're the only two tools you need.
Had a couple of sensors out of spec, and I needed a 2nd hand AFM.
I think I spent around £100 all in.
hi, i bought my non-running wedge with a holley offenhauser conversion already done on a 400se engine (350i car). i was having a lot of trouble getting it to run right with all of the variable between ignition and fueling, could be plugs, leads, dizzy, amplifier, timing, carb fault like nblockage, jetting etc...
had misfire and fouling plugs but apparently it had been running fine and the guy i bought it from had just completed a tour to italian lakes and back fault free. so concentrated on ignition and changed everything which was a mistake. that didn't work and having read how much more reliable and easier to tune and keep in tune the weber/edelbrock was than the holley, and also that the edelbrock manifold would give more power than the offy, i sold the holley and offy set up on ebay and bought a used weber/edelbrock car that had been set up for a stag and a used edelbrock manifold separately.
i assumed that if the carb had been set up for 150hp 3.0 it would need jetting up for a 250hp 4.0 nck engine! bought a full calibration kit and jetted up a stage. it did work straight away but eventually i found the original fault was ignition not carb!!!! i rebuilt the dizzy myself and increased the advance to 12º btdc and misfire immediately disappeared and runs very nicely. so it probably would have been fine to stay with the holley however i like the weber, i like that it is all mechanical. it is easy to work on. mine turned out to be blocked on the right hand idle mixture side but i sorted it with good carb cleaner and an air line, now starts easy without choke, picks up instantly without hesitation, no flat spots, revs like a motorbike easily up to 7k rpm. afraid to go higher but bet it would.
my advice for what it is worth.
if your efi is working perfectly keep it.
if it plays up, chuck it and stick a carb on. dead simple and dead reliable and in my opinion looks so much better than all that efi electricery under the bonnet.
no more worries about lose wires, dodgy connections, mysterious black boxes, computers, sensors etc etc...
you put your foot down, that pulls on a cable, the carb opens and off you go! i like that. the more you put your foot down and the quicker you put your foot down the more the carb and the quicker the carb opens and the quicker you go!
mine is probably still running a bit rick and when i have finished other upgrades like the exhaust i am planning, i will probably get it professionally fine tuned but just from reading the manual and very basic d.i.y. knowledge i have got it running reliably and well by my self.
people go on about economy being better with efi, but in my opinion you don't by a big v8 engined tvr for economy! if i wanted economy i would by a micra and if i wanted better economy plus performance i'd byuy a gold gti. if you want supercar performance and v8 sound track don't worry about economy.
had misfire and fouling plugs but apparently it had been running fine and the guy i bought it from had just completed a tour to italian lakes and back fault free. so concentrated on ignition and changed everything which was a mistake. that didn't work and having read how much more reliable and easier to tune and keep in tune the weber/edelbrock was than the holley, and also that the edelbrock manifold would give more power than the offy, i sold the holley and offy set up on ebay and bought a used weber/edelbrock car that had been set up for a stag and a used edelbrock manifold separately.
i assumed that if the carb had been set up for 150hp 3.0 it would need jetting up for a 250hp 4.0 nck engine! bought a full calibration kit and jetted up a stage. it did work straight away but eventually i found the original fault was ignition not carb!!!! i rebuilt the dizzy myself and increased the advance to 12º btdc and misfire immediately disappeared and runs very nicely. so it probably would have been fine to stay with the holley however i like the weber, i like that it is all mechanical. it is easy to work on. mine turned out to be blocked on the right hand idle mixture side but i sorted it with good carb cleaner and an air line, now starts easy without choke, picks up instantly without hesitation, no flat spots, revs like a motorbike easily up to 7k rpm. afraid to go higher but bet it would.
my advice for what it is worth.
if your efi is working perfectly keep it.
if it plays up, chuck it and stick a carb on. dead simple and dead reliable and in my opinion looks so much better than all that efi electricery under the bonnet.
no more worries about lose wires, dodgy connections, mysterious black boxes, computers, sensors etc etc...
you put your foot down, that pulls on a cable, the carb opens and off you go! i like that. the more you put your foot down and the quicker you put your foot down the more the carb and the quicker the carb opens and the quicker you go!
mine is probably still running a bit rick and when i have finished other upgrades like the exhaust i am planning, i will probably get it professionally fine tuned but just from reading the manual and very basic d.i.y. knowledge i have got it running reliably and well by my self.
people go on about economy being better with efi, but in my opinion you don't by a big v8 engined tvr for economy! if i wanted economy i would by a micra and if i wanted better economy plus performance i'd byuy a gold gti. if you want supercar performance and v8 sound track don't worry about economy.
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