EFI flapper system fault
Discussion
mrzigazaga said:
Im inclined to agree with Penelope...Not something I would o ON the car...
You should be able to google the injectors to check flow rate...
Should have said test was done with gun wash and old fuel pump thought the gun wash might clean any tar from old fuel out of injectors, used gun wash as I saw it on the vintageairoplane siteYou should be able to google the injectors to check flow rate...
Certainly doesn't look like a fine diffused fuel spray. Before getting your injectors refurbished I'd still shout out for a temporary loan of an ECU. I've got one (actually a few) BUT having lent a dissy to a chap who then thought I'd given it to him despite it being an almost new one, I'm a little put-off lending kit out to people I don't know. Mr Injector is the man if you need the injectors checking and refurbishing. He's on the interweb!
jensencars said:
mrzigazaga said:
Im inclined to agree with Penelope...Not something I would o ON the car...
You should be able to google the injectors to check flow rate...
Should have said test was done with gun wash and old fuel pump thought the gun wash might clean any tar from old fuel out of injectors, used gun wash as I saw it on the vintageairoplane siteYou should be able to google the injectors to check flow rate...
"Penelope", I have to say that when you first entered the Wedge forum with your somewhat strong views of crimped connections, I wasn't too impressed with the manner of your responses. Don't get me wrong - technically I do think you are spot on.
As time moves on however I am more and more impressed with your expert electrical knowledge and support to this forum of oily handed petrol heads. I therefore thank you for your support. I did suggest to Mark that an electrical fault finding forum at the BBWF might be in order but sadly the talk of beer got in the way. Cheers.
As time moves on however I am more and more impressed with your expert electrical knowledge and support to this forum of oily handed petrol heads. I therefore thank you for your support. I did suggest to Mark that an electrical fault finding forum at the BBWF might be in order but sadly the talk of beer got in the way. Cheers.
Penelope Stopit said:
jensencars said:
mrzigazaga said:
Im inclined to agree with Penelope...Not something I would o ON the car...
You should be able to google the injectors to check flow rate...
Should have said test was done with gun wash and old fuel pump thought the gun wash might clean any tar from old fuel out of injectors, used gun wash as I saw it on the vintageairoplane siteYou should be able to google the injectors to check flow rate...
I think the later injectors have a shower type pintle so more of a spray...Thats probably right for the earlier type with just a hole...
Does the spray pattern really matter that much in our application?
As far as I recall the fuel is spayed onto the inlet valve where it vapourises and sits in the intake trumpet until the valve opens.
I would be more concerned about the amount of fuel and having that balanced between injectors.
As far as I recall the fuel is spayed onto the inlet valve where it vapourises and sits in the intake trumpet until the valve opens.
I would be more concerned about the amount of fuel and having that balanced between injectors.
That spray pattern is correct for flapper injectors. Bad signs would be split spray or angled spray indicating a partial blockage (of the pintle cap usually)
Not sure what 'over-injecting' is? Do you mean it's running rich at idle or something. And yes, gunwash is generally highly flammable and not any safer to be doing that with!
Not sure what 'over-injecting' is? Do you mean it's running rich at idle or something. And yes, gunwash is generally highly flammable and not any safer to be doing that with!
Edited by SuperApeInGoodShape on Friday 30th March 09:11
Over-fuelling....mmm...could be a number of things...What plugs do you have in there?....How old is the Fuel Pressure Regulator?...
Its possible that the diaphragm inside the FPR is shot so giving full 60+ psi...You can check your fuel pressures via a gauge connected to the Cold Start Injector pipe...Check the return pressure...should be around 36psi..you can check holding pressure and stall pressure but I would rule out the regulator first.
If that checks out okay then it could be timing...do you have a juicy spark?
Its possible that the diaphragm inside the FPR is shot so giving full 60+ psi...You can check your fuel pressures via a gauge connected to the Cold Start Injector pipe...Check the return pressure...should be around 36psi..you can check holding pressure and stall pressure but I would rule out the regulator first.
If that checks out okay then it could be timing...do you have a juicy spark?
The fact that it starts and there is a healthy spark tom me rules out ECU or HT issue. As Mark says over fuelling could well be it. When the engine is cold it needs plenty of juice but as soon as it starts to warm up it's flooding.
Fuel regulator is easy to check and agree that 36psi would be correct pressure.
I did have this on the 390Se when I installed a larger jaguar AFM. Despite "playing" with the AFM spring I just couldn't get the engine to run right. 2 Minutes on a rolling road and an experienced eye had the mixture spot on and it's not missed a beat since, so AFM set up could be one suspect.
Third is the coolant temperature sensor but you've already checked that.
Cheers.
Fuel regulator is easy to check and agree that 36psi would be correct pressure.
I did have this on the 390Se when I installed a larger jaguar AFM. Despite "playing" with the AFM spring I just couldn't get the engine to run right. 2 Minutes on a rolling road and an experienced eye had the mixture spot on and it's not missed a beat since, so AFM set up could be one suspect.
Third is the coolant temperature sensor but you've already checked that.
Cheers.
jensencars said:
Hi,
Thanks for replies
Car runs for about 1-2 minutes then coughs splitters and dies take plugs out they are soaked and very black [cuold start injector is disconnected]
Right i had a quick scan of your other thread, so it's a 3.5 Range Rover classic? Is the engine as per standard spec?Thanks for replies
Car runs for about 1-2 minutes then coughs splitters and dies take plugs out they are soaked and very black [cuold start injector is disconnected]
What did you do to go from the engine not running at all to running 1-2 mins before it conks out? Whats the idle speed?
Does it run perfectly for those 1-2mins or is it as rough as a badgers arse or somewhere inbetween?
Are all 8 plugs black and wet, what plugs are you running?
Have you tested the injectors for leaking. i.e engine off, not cranking, fuel rail out, move the flap in the AFM to run the fuel pump, do the injectors drip, leak or spray?
Just an FYI, i see people were suggesting the 'moving the throttle pot quickly and listening for the injector click test' ; The RRC ecu does NOT have the transient fuelling enrichment circuit (which Wedge and SD1's do) so not hearing the injectors click when moving the throttle pot quickly is correct.
Edited by SuperApeInGoodShape on Friday 30th March 13:36
I have an adjustable pressure regulator and a permanently fitted glycerine pressure gauge that I change every year to maintain as much accuracy as poss...I found this to be a good diagnostic tool without dismantling or disturbing the fuel rail and injectors...the plugs can be very brittle and if you break one its a right PITA to sort out!...
Is your fuel pump new?...cavitation or low pump pressure could cause these symptoms...You can test pump and injectors in place...with a fuel pressure gauge fitted to the cold start line...Remove the air intake hose to AFM...clamp off the return on the regulator and prime the fuel rail with ignition on by moving the flap...If the rail maintains 36psi then your injectors and the pump's non-return valve hasn't failed...Then remove clamp and clamp the feed after priming the rail and this will tell you if the regulator is failing...
Hope this helps
Ziga
Is your fuel pump new?...cavitation or low pump pressure could cause these symptoms...You can test pump and injectors in place...with a fuel pressure gauge fitted to the cold start line...Remove the air intake hose to AFM...clamp off the return on the regulator and prime the fuel rail with ignition on by moving the flap...If the rail maintains 36psi then your injectors and the pump's non-return valve hasn't failed...Then remove clamp and clamp the feed after priming the rail and this will tell you if the regulator is failing...
Hope this helps
Ziga
KKson said:
"Penelope", I have to say that when you first entered the Wedge forum with your somewhat strong views of crimped connections, I wasn't too impressed with the manner of your responses. Don't get me wrong - technically I do think you are spot on.
As time moves on however I am more and more impressed with your expert electrical knowledge and support to this forum of oily handed petrol heads. I therefore thank you for your support. I did suggest to Mark that an electrical fault finding forum at the BBWF might be in order but sadly the talk of beer got in the way. Cheers.
Thank you for your kind words Yes I do understand how some of my earlier postings could have offended some posters in this forum although I never intended them to offend anyone, unfortunately for me I do often suffer the repercussions due to my lack of tact. Anyway all's well that ends well and I do thoroughly enjoy helping people as and when I can with their electrical problemsAs time moves on however I am more and more impressed with your expert electrical knowledge and support to this forum of oily handed petrol heads. I therefore thank you for your support. I did suggest to Mark that an electrical fault finding forum at the BBWF might be in order but sadly the talk of beer got in the way. Cheers.
BBWF? Do you mean "Big Bad Wrestling Forum", I found the below at a BBWF and I like it very much
Edited by Penelope Stopit on Friday 30th March 18:43
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