Cologne V6 dies under load at 4k rpm.
Discussion
Hi all
Having some issues with my Tasmin, running the factory KJET 2.8l Ford Cologne engine.
I don't know if it's an ignition issue, or a fuelling issue, so don't even know where to start.
The car starts easily and settles into a reasonable idle. It's a bit high RPM, and if you lower the idle it runs lumpy. Thats not really the issue though.
The issue is that the car will fall flat on its face at about 4000rpm under load. Sometimes it will happen lower in the rev range, but almost without fail it dies at 4k. Revving when stationary, without load, it will happily spin out to 6k rpm.
Its not like a progressive misfire, its like the throttle is snapped shut, and the revs start dropping off. If you try and give it throttle during this, there is NOTHING. It does come back, and if youre still on the throttle it takes off with a surge, until it cuts out again. Sometimes just as it cuts it can pop and backfire.
Im feeling its possibly ignition related? Its almost like it hits a rev limiter, but i have checked and the rotor is a normal one, not a rev limiting one. If it were fuel, i feel like it wouldnt be a hard cut?
I have drained the tanks, fed it some fresh high octane fuel with injector cleaner in it, fitted a new fuel filter, swapped in new plugs and a new air filter. Previous owner replaced the cap, rotor and coil. I dont know how long this issue has been present, as i purchased the car not running, and its been off the road for about 3 years. No vacuum or intake leaks.
I would really appreciate any help in pointing me in the right direction, as im getting a bit frustrated.
Having some issues with my Tasmin, running the factory KJET 2.8l Ford Cologne engine.
I don't know if it's an ignition issue, or a fuelling issue, so don't even know where to start.
The car starts easily and settles into a reasonable idle. It's a bit high RPM, and if you lower the idle it runs lumpy. Thats not really the issue though.
The issue is that the car will fall flat on its face at about 4000rpm under load. Sometimes it will happen lower in the rev range, but almost without fail it dies at 4k. Revving when stationary, without load, it will happily spin out to 6k rpm.
Its not like a progressive misfire, its like the throttle is snapped shut, and the revs start dropping off. If you try and give it throttle during this, there is NOTHING. It does come back, and if youre still on the throttle it takes off with a surge, until it cuts out again. Sometimes just as it cuts it can pop and backfire.
Im feeling its possibly ignition related? Its almost like it hits a rev limiter, but i have checked and the rotor is a normal one, not a rev limiting one. If it were fuel, i feel like it wouldnt be a hard cut?
I have drained the tanks, fed it some fresh high octane fuel with injector cleaner in it, fitted a new fuel filter, swapped in new plugs and a new air filter. Previous owner replaced the cap, rotor and coil. I dont know how long this issue has been present, as i purchased the car not running, and its been off the road for about 3 years. No vacuum or intake leaks.
I would really appreciate any help in pointing me in the right direction, as im getting a bit frustrated.
LLantrisant said:
stop!!
even my early tasmin v6 had a swirlpot...imo they all had one when the injection engine (V6 with K-Jetrinic) was fitted.
the pots are prone to corrode...a former owner might botched-in a T after removing the swirl.
i would say your problem is fuel related
No, some early ones, like mine, were not equipped with a swirl pot. The diagram is in the parts manual. Regardless, the pump is getting ample fuel.even my early tasmin v6 had a swirlpot...imo they all had one when the injection engine (V6 with K-Jetrinic) was fitted.
the pots are prone to corrode...a former owner might botched-in a T after removing the swirl.
i would say your problem is fuel related
Everyone could be right but imho....
You are on the right track (ignition) . I’ve had cars with clogged and or limited fuel supply.
But it doesn’t usually feel like someone is turn the key on and off (if I understand correctly). Fuel is usually more progressive, not instant on and off (unless your fuel pump relay is making and breaking). And you mentioned the popping which I think would be the ignition kicking back in. Good luck!
You are on the right track (ignition) . I’ve had cars with clogged and or limited fuel supply.
But it doesn’t usually feel like someone is turn the key on and off (if I understand correctly). Fuel is usually more progressive, not instant on and off (unless your fuel pump relay is making and breaking). And you mentioned the popping which I think would be the ignition kicking back in. Good luck!
Turns out the coil the previous owner fitted was a Bosch GT40 coil. A 12v coil, but still being run with a ballast resistor. Its also a coil known for causing issues when running with electronic ignition.
So reverting back to original Ford coil results in smoother running & idling, but more cut outs at random times. This is a quick video I made showing the issue. Make sure subtitles are on. https://youtu.be/BECsTxi0bfg
So reverting back to original Ford coil results in smoother running & idling, but more cut outs at random times. This is a quick video I made showing the issue. Make sure subtitles are on. https://youtu.be/BECsTxi0bfg
Edited by KelvinatorNZ on Sunday 1st September 02:00
Right, so some super dodgy testing including a timing light and reversing up my busy street, I can confirm that when the engine cuts out it still has spark. The timing light still flashes as the revs drop.
Also tried another coil. Have just cleaned the KJET air flap disk thing, and throttle body. Neither made a difference, but the issue is getting much worse the more i run the car. I can't get to the end of the street now, and if I push on when it cuts out it pops and crackles from the exhaust. I suspect it may be lean?
Guess the next job is to remove the plenum and take the injectors out and see what their flow is like?
Also tried another coil. Have just cleaned the KJET air flap disk thing, and throttle body. Neither made a difference, but the issue is getting much worse the more i run the car. I can't get to the end of the street now, and if I push on when it cuts out it pops and crackles from the exhaust. I suspect it may be lean?
Guess the next job is to remove the plenum and take the injectors out and see what their flow is like?
Edited by KelvinatorNZ on Sunday 1st September 06:19
obviuosly fuel related.
the metering unit is very delicate...espeically for cars not much in use.....internal corrosion (with todays fuels even more critical than in the past).
pay attention doing someting yourselves on the metering-unit...its not available anymore new...and refurbishing costs some money.... 360,-€
https://mengenteiler.jimdo.com/
there are several specialists in germany...as the system was developped there and used in lots of german cars.
https://www.dr-mengenteiler.de/
testing 60,-€, repair starting from 250,-€
the metering unit is very delicate...espeically for cars not much in use.....internal corrosion (with todays fuels even more critical than in the past).
pay attention doing someting yourselves on the metering-unit...its not available anymore new...and refurbishing costs some money.... 360,-€
https://mengenteiler.jimdo.com/
there are several specialists in germany...as the system was developped there and used in lots of german cars.
https://www.dr-mengenteiler.de/
testing 60,-€, repair starting from 250,-€
As above...but if DIY please be careful and make sure you use aircraft grade sealant as I had a major leak due to the ethanol in petrol, the unit was rebuilt by a professional body who have been doing this for over 30 years....he subsequently rebuilt it FOC again but with better sealant.
Ziga
Ziga
hi,my early mk1 fhc had a fuel problem after id bought it.The return line was t-eed off as per some system drawings to the pump and the tank.It used to cut out ,go flat then pick up and same when tight cornering /roundabouts - worse in hot weather! after changing several items with no change i removed the tee and just sent the return back to the tank - it ran smooth as chocolate. also mine has no swirl pot fitted.
french dave said:
hi,my early mk1 fhc had a fuel problem after id bought it.The return line was t-eed off as per some system drawings to the pump and the tank.It used to cut out ,go flat then pick up and same when tight cornering /roundabouts - worse in hot weather! after changing several items with no change i removed the tee and just sent the return back to the tank - it ran smooth as chocolate. also mine has no swirl pot fitted.
Hi Dave.My ole girl was missing a swirl pot and used to do the same....
...and whoever messed about with the fuel system was probably Grand master snakes & ladders champion....: )
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