herw we go again - part 3
Discussion
Hi All,
Still no start. What could have happened when I refitted the topped up battery. Something has gone somewhere. Checked all the fuses and relays as best as I can , all seem to be OK. Cranks over with spark and petrol. Took off centre HT lead of dizzy and put to plenum, good rapid spark on cranking.Took off dizzy cap grabbed rotor and still a good spark. But after cranking the spark dies away when spark plug is put to the plenum. New ignition amplifier etc. I have jump started it with another car, still no good. It seems to be running rich as I cleaned plugs and now they are black and wet. So I reset mixture by turning the screw in fully and back out 2.5 turns, is this right?.
Spark plug gap is 0.035". Firing is 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2?
Have checked all the fuses and stuff, wiggled all wires and connections, no difference. Removed the cold start inj. Put the throttle flat to the floor. Checked the coolant temp switch in varying degrees of hot water and checked resistances-OK. What is the voltage across the +/-ve of the coil when cranking as I am getting 1.5v. Shoudn't it be about 9v. Why?
Introduced a small gap in the air flow meter flap by inserting a small screwdriver to make the AFM think its running ( or something I read )to make it run weaker, still no good. Ummm have I missed anything!!
Your thoughts please gentlemen........
Wedgie ( Ian)..I read in a thread a while back that you made a new loom, is it worth me having a look at doing the same as I am doing my nut looking for electrical gremlins all the time. Is it a case that the wiring is totally shot, bad connections and bad 80's stuff, as I will try to renew everything. Are there more modern ways of wiring/fuses and relays that could be used to take away this nightmare
cheers .........UG
Still no start. What could have happened when I refitted the topped up battery. Something has gone somewhere. Checked all the fuses and relays as best as I can , all seem to be OK. Cranks over with spark and petrol. Took off centre HT lead of dizzy and put to plenum, good rapid spark on cranking.Took off dizzy cap grabbed rotor and still a good spark. But after cranking the spark dies away when spark plug is put to the plenum. New ignition amplifier etc. I have jump started it with another car, still no good. It seems to be running rich as I cleaned plugs and now they are black and wet. So I reset mixture by turning the screw in fully and back out 2.5 turns, is this right?.
Spark plug gap is 0.035". Firing is 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2?
Have checked all the fuses and stuff, wiggled all wires and connections, no difference. Removed the cold start inj. Put the throttle flat to the floor. Checked the coolant temp switch in varying degrees of hot water and checked resistances-OK. What is the voltage across the +/-ve of the coil when cranking as I am getting 1.5v. Shoudn't it be about 9v. Why?
Introduced a small gap in the air flow meter flap by inserting a small screwdriver to make the AFM think its running ( or something I read )to make it run weaker, still no good. Ummm have I missed anything!!
Your thoughts please gentlemen........
Wedgie ( Ian)..I read in a thread a while back that you made a new loom, is it worth me having a look at doing the same as I am doing my nut looking for electrical gremlins all the time. Is it a case that the wiring is totally shot, bad connections and bad 80's stuff, as I will try to renew everything. Are there more modern ways of wiring/fuses and relays that could be used to take away this nightmare
cheers .........UG
After having mine on the gas analyser (early flapper type AFM) I found that 2/3 of a turn out from fully in was about right for my engine.
Do you have an immobiliser? I had to junk an old clifford eagle after a battery change because the brain wouldn't reset itself properly.
Hope you get it sorted soon, you certainly seem to have had more then your fair share of teething troubles.
Do you have an immobiliser? I had to junk an old clifford eagle after a battery change because the brain wouldn't reset itself properly.
Hope you get it sorted soon, you certainly seem to have had more then your fair share of teething troubles.
Hi Mark:
It certainly is pulling your leg now.
As far as making a new loom, yes it's possible, cost me about £60 in parts. Had to reuse the housings from the power resistor pack, throttle pot and ECU connectors, all the other connectors are still available. For the ones that aren't, you can still get the terminals to attach to the wires then plug in.
When you say you removed the cold start injector, I presume you blanked off the hole afterwards? Or do you just mean you disconnected it?
Depending on your meter, it may read strange theings across the coil as it's a pulsed signal. The ignition amp earths the coil '-' to fire it, you'd probably see no volts across the coil until it does, but if the response of the meter isn't fast enough to catch the pulses, it probably will show low volts.
At risk of teaching me granny to make moonshine, try an oscilloscope?
Another possibility is that bloody ballast resistor that your car has: are the connections to it absolutely sound? The coil draws tons of current (albeit in short bursts) and the contact area of a 1/4" Lucar connector is miniscule...
Lastly, there should be one or two relays probably marked 'ignition'; these supply power to all the equipment that only works with the ignition on. They can cook; if the injection system gets its feed from there you may have poor supply?
It certainly is pulling your leg now.
As far as making a new loom, yes it's possible, cost me about £60 in parts. Had to reuse the housings from the power resistor pack, throttle pot and ECU connectors, all the other connectors are still available. For the ones that aren't, you can still get the terminals to attach to the wires then plug in.
When you say you removed the cold start injector, I presume you blanked off the hole afterwards? Or do you just mean you disconnected it?
Depending on your meter, it may read strange theings across the coil as it's a pulsed signal. The ignition amp earths the coil '-' to fire it, you'd probably see no volts across the coil until it does, but if the response of the meter isn't fast enough to catch the pulses, it probably will show low volts.
At risk of teaching me granny to make moonshine, try an oscilloscope?
Another possibility is that bloody ballast resistor that your car has: are the connections to it absolutely sound? The coil draws tons of current (albeit in short bursts) and the contact area of a 1/4" Lucar connector is miniscule...
Lastly, there should be one or two relays probably marked 'ignition'; these supply power to all the equipment that only works with the ignition on. They can cook; if the injection system gets its feed from there you may have poor supply?
Jeff -I only have the set in the car at the moment. There are two different types unfortunatly but it was going well last time tho, I will change them now for some new ones. Can you suggest some.
There is no immobilisor fitted as I went thru this trying the first time it would not start.
Tallbloke - is that 2 to 3 turns or is it 2 thirds out ?
Ian - As far as the relays are concerned nothing is marked. I only have the red and fuel/main relays, plus the headlamp relays. There are fan/ind's and others which I have determined by switching/pulling out etc
It seems to me to be something connected with me taking the battery off and replacing it. How I just do not know.
There is no immobilisor fitted as I went thru this trying the first time it would not start.
Tallbloke - is that 2 to 3 turns or is it 2 thirds out ?
Ian - As far as the relays are concerned nothing is marked. I only have the red and fuel/main relays, plus the headlamp relays. There are fan/ind's and others which I have determined by switching/pulling out etc
It seems to me to be something connected with me taking the battery off and replacing it. How I just do not know.
I didn't want to muddy the waters but I had a problem with flooded plugs big time. Not saying its the cause and don't want to suggest you go and buy new ones. I could pop over with a spare set but not enough time at the moment. To get me out of my predicament I thoroughly cleaned and wire brushed them then baked them on the house radiator for an hour, it was winter so the heating was at full. It was suggested a lighter or the gas ring but not sure how much it takes to completely nadger them. The lighter soots them up a treat but cleaned off OK. Started first time. Turned out that a few floodings can really bugger up plugs if you are not careful. They were binned at the next service.
>> Edited by jmorgan on Friday 1st July 12:21
>> Edited by jmorgan on Friday 1st July 12:21
Know were your at, had similar. I must be the only wedger to have paid 4k for the car, spent 4K on it, only to end up with a car that looks even worse! (more akin to a barn find).
And to top it all, in the 2 years i've owned it its just got an MOT after 15m off road and i've only travelled 600 miles it since purchase and 300 of them were the drive home!
After rebuilding and refitting engine, had spark, had fuel, just turned and floods, ended up having an oil mixture more like WD40!!! after half a dozen attempts.
We used the process of elimination by interchanging parts on a known working engine (in this case a mates rover vitesse).
i.e swap like for like one at a time.
- computer
- Resistor pack
- ignition amp
- AFM
In my case swapping of computers resulted in mine starting and his flooding.
Had computer repaired (ouch!),however mine would then start intermitantly, but hey at least it was progress as it was starting.
Had initially good spark but quickly faded. After replacing all leads and coil, not much improvement. Finally tracked it down to wiring from the coil to the distributor, contacts looked fine but the actual wire was degraded and broken going into terminals.
Repalced wires and connections, now fired up every time.
Still ran very rich but that ended up being the worn AFM which had to be reconned (ouch! again).
Keep at it, try eliminating as much as possible.
Few other thoughts, how longs the petrol been in ?
Definately check for an immobiliser, been caught that way before!
Temperature sensor on front of inlet manifold always worth a thought.
Good Luck
A fellow frustrated wedger!
And to top it all, in the 2 years i've owned it its just got an MOT after 15m off road and i've only travelled 600 miles it since purchase and 300 of them were the drive home!
After rebuilding and refitting engine, had spark, had fuel, just turned and floods, ended up having an oil mixture more like WD40!!! after half a dozen attempts.
We used the process of elimination by interchanging parts on a known working engine (in this case a mates rover vitesse).
i.e swap like for like one at a time.
- computer
- Resistor pack
- ignition amp
- AFM
In my case swapping of computers resulted in mine starting and his flooding.
Had computer repaired (ouch!),however mine would then start intermitantly, but hey at least it was progress as it was starting.
Had initially good spark but quickly faded. After replacing all leads and coil, not much improvement. Finally tracked it down to wiring from the coil to the distributor, contacts looked fine but the actual wire was degraded and broken going into terminals.
Repalced wires and connections, now fired up every time.
Still ran very rich but that ended up being the worn AFM which had to be reconned (ouch! again).
Keep at it, try eliminating as much as possible.
Few other thoughts, how longs the petrol been in ?
Definately check for an immobiliser, been caught that way before!
Temperature sensor on front of inlet manifold always worth a thought.
Good Luck
A fellow frustrated wedger!
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